Trying not to chase PH but concerned

[Ernie C]

Hi, so for whatever reason my ph seems to always want to dip lower and other than dose kalk opposite light cycle I don't want to add any additional buffers. I dose kalk hourly for about 12 hours but not alot as to try to keep alk from climbing. My tank doesn't seem to have high alk and calcium demand as i have alot of small mixed corals, with only two large lps. I've left windows open all day to air out the house, have some house plants to try to affect CO2, might get more but cause I like them and figure maybe they can help. I've recalibrated my ph probe recently but my salifert ph test tends to show it a bit higher, but the color chart isn't the easiest to decipher. Don't see any adverse effects in the tank and see some slow growth but just wondering if the tank would benefit from a higher ph range and what could i do. I can't run skimmer lines outside and think co2 scrubbing media would be expensive for me. Any suggestions advice will be appreciated.

 

[GMay]

If things are fine and growing, I wouldn't be too concerned. Just keep an eye on it.

 

[MrObscura]

Don't worry about Ph. Forget it even exists unless you have a reason to fear its spiked too high due to dosing something.

 

[Keepswiming]

I had the same problem and the skimmer line outside solved it. I realize that you mentioned you cannot do this, so maybe increase the surface agitation for gas exchange?

I also told my girlfriend she has to leave the house because she is taking my fishtank’s air, and I got to chill and work on the tank in silence, maybe try that? Lol kidding on the latter! Good luck!

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I had the same problem and the skimmer line outside solved it. I realize that you mentioned you cannot do this, so maybe increase the surface agitation for gas exchange?

I also told my girlfriend she has to leave the house because she is taking my fishtank’s air, and I got to chill and work on the tank in silence, maybe try that? Lol kidding on the latter! Good luck!

Love it.


As far as ph, you do want to maintain a somewhat stable range, but if your guys are doing good I would not place a huge emphasis on chasing a number. Ph works in conjunction somewhat with alk and calcium, but unless you are in the very low range of ph to start dissolving calcium like in a reactor it will be fine.

There is a diy co2 scrubber,I think there is a thread on here where a co2 scrubber was built with a plastic bottle.

 

[Ernie C]

Love it.


As far as ph, you do want to maintain a somewhat stable range, but if your guys are doing good I would not place a huge emphasis on chasing a number. Ph works in conjunction somewhat with alk and calcium, but unless you are in the very low range of ph to start dissolving calcium like in a reactor it will be fine.

There is a diy co2 scrubber,I think there is a thread on here where a co2 scrubber was built with a plastic bottle.

How low is too low? I'm questioning my Apex probe though, even though its only a few months old and i've calibrated it several times.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

That last read 7.7 really is getting to a low point, I run 7.9 usually. I don’t think I ever broke 8, less 8.1. My tank sounds somewhat like yours, softies dominant. 8 and up is really where your want, but if you are seeing growth I would not think it an emergency but time to make slow adjustments to get to where you want.

Sound like you have been trying lots of he recommended steps. Take a look at Rand’s ph article. I skip the math parts since it hurt my head. Scroll down to the causes of low ph problems. See if any of his identifiers ring true and maybe some resolution

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

[beaslbob]

Perhaps I missed it here but I would keep alk from 8 to 10 DKH. Baking soda will adjust that.

And do nothing to adjust pH.

I would add macro algaes to the system so it becomes a net consumer of co2 and source of o2 to the surroundings. I think you'll find pH will rise due to lower co2.


my .02

 

[BestMomEver]

How low is too low? I'm questioning my Apex probe though, even though its only a few months old and i've calibrated it several times.

Mine stays at about 7.85 and drops to 7.7 or so at night. I check my dkh regularly. When that’s off, I adjust my doser. Otherwise, I try to ignore the pH.

 

[Ernie C]

My alk is about 10 dKh. I will test again tonight but all my parameters have been quite stable. I do see some growth but slow. I have more sps than lps. I’ve gone through the article and still not really sure what to do, not really doing anything at the moment just watching it. I have an old house and it’s just me and my two dogs. Maybe I’ll get some more house plants, lol. Have chaeto in the sump. Any other macro algae good at co2 removal?

 

[Hitman]

How low is too low? I'm questioning my Apex probe though, even though its only a few months old and i've calibrated it several times.

Are you calibrating through fusion or apex.local ?
Anytime I calibrated mine in fusion it was way off like 7.7. Once I learned that you can do it manually through apex.local my ph stays between 8.15 and 8.25 24/7

 

[Ernie C]

Are you calibrating through fusion or apex.local ?
Anytime I calibrated mine in fusion it was way off like 7.7. Once I learned that you can do it manually through apex.local my ph stays between 8.15 and 8.25 24/7

I did it through local last time. Meaning I logged in through a computer using the IP address. Is that what you mean?

Did you do the automatic or advanced with temp probe enabled?

Last time I calibrated I used non Neptune calibration fluids. I have some Neptune ones. Maybe I should give it a shot again.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

A couple of tips on pH calibration. As hitman notes, probably best to do this locally by logging into the Apex directly.

Prep your calibration packets (and only use newly opened ones - they're single-use only) by placing them in the sump for about 20 minutes to come to tank temp. Rinse your probe off with RODI, then dry it with a paper towel. Prep the Apex to calibrate the pH probe. Cut open the pH 10 buffer packet, place the dried probe into it, then clip it back in the sump with a clothespin - you want it to remain at temperature while the potential is stabilizing. The millivolt reading should stabilize within 2 minutes. If not, swish the probe in the packet to ensure that you haven't trapped an air bubble. If it still won't stabilize, it may be time to consider cleaning or replacing the probe. When the millivolt reading stabilizes, tell the Apex to accept the value, remove the probe from the packet, rinse it off with RODI, dry it with a paper towel, then repeat the procedure with the pH 7 calibration solution. Ideally, you should enable temperature compensation, but it doesn't make all that much difference in the typical range of reef tank temperatures (about 0.03 pH units for common pH 7 buffers).

Looking at your graph, you definitely seem to have something odd going on. During the measurement period, did the weather change enough that your A/C ran more or less often? I ask because besides the typically strong effect of opening a window, homes with a natural gas hot water heater can get quite a lot of indoor CO2 variation depending on how the air in the home is circulated.

 

[Ernie C]

A couple of tips on pH calibration. As hitman notes, probably best to do this locally by logging into the Apex directly.

Prep your calibration packets (and only use newly opened ones - they're single-use only) by placing them in the sump for about 20 minutes to come to tank temp. Rinse your probe off with RODI, then dry it with a paper towel. Prep the Apex to calibrate the pH probe. Cut open the pH 10 buffer packet, place the dried probe into it, then clip it back in the sump with a clothespin - you want it to remain at temperature while the potential is stabilizing. The millivolt reading should stabilize within 2 minutes. If not, swish the probe in the packet to ensure that you haven't trapped an air bubble. If it still won't stabilize, it may be time to consider cleaning or replacing the probe. When the millivolt reading stabilizes, tell the Apex to accept the value, remove the probe from the packet, rinse it off with RODI, dry it with a paper towel, then repeat the procedure with the pH 7 calibration solution. Ideally, you should enable temperature compensation, but it doesn't make all that much difference in the typical range of reef tank temperatures (about 0.03 pH units for common pH 7 buffers).

Looking at your graph, you definitely seem to have something odd going on. During the measurement period, did the weather change enough that your A/C ran more or less often? I ask because besides the typically strong effect of opening a window, homes with a natural gas hot water heater can get quite a lot of indoor CO2 variation depending on how the air in the home is circulated.

Could you clarify the logging into apex locally.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Well, in my case it's not really "logging in", as I use the Apex display to directly calibrate the pH probes in my system. But at least with the classic series, you can directly connect a web browser to the Apex head unit with the IP address (I think you mentioned that's what you were doing).

 

[AdamNC]

Open a window or 2 just a few inches everyday after work for a few hours and you’ll be surprised how much that helps.

 

[Hitman]

I did it through local last time. Meaning I logged in through a computer using the IP address. Is that what you mean?

Did you do the automatic or advanced with temp probe enabled?

Last time I calibrated I used non Neptune calibration fluids. I have some Neptune ones. Maybe I should give it a shot again.

In the address bar just type in apex.local then sign in like you would in your app.
Even this way the automatic calibration seems wrong with or without temp probe enabled, so I use the advanced manual calibration, and again with or without temp probe enabled I get true readings this way.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

By the way - an add-on to anyone reading this that's new to Apex pH probe calibration (or pH probe calibration in general). It's never a bad idea to check your calibration by putting it back into the temp-equilibrated pH 10 buffer after your finish the calibration. Kind of obviously, it should read 10 +/- 0.02. If not, your probe may need cleaning, or replacing (I personally clean my probes in 0.1N HCl, but there are other cleaning solutions sold for the purpose). In the laboratory, pH meters generally report something called a "slope", which is the change in millivolt readings for a given pH change. Most meters will report this as a percentage of the theoretical value, and a "good" slope percentage is generally taken as 100% +/- 5%.

I've never tried it, but I assume that the millivolt reading that the Apex reports for a particular calibration buffer could be written down, and a slope calculated and compared to the theoretical value. Anyone ever tried this?

 

[4sylvester]

Have you validated your calibration? Before you assume your current calibration is good stick the probe in pH 7 buffer and verify the reading is 7. If it doesn't read 7 then your calibration is no longer valid and re-calibration is needed. After the re-calibration is complete stick the probe back in pH 7 buffer to validate the calibration. If it reads 7 then you are set. If you start experiencing drifting outside of the normal daily swings then do a quick pH 7 check to ensure your calibration is still good. If it doesn't read 7 then your calibration has been lost. If that is the case your probe may need to be cleaned or it needs to be replaced.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Don't worry about Ph. Forget it even exists unless you have a reason to fear its spiked too high due to dosing something.

You base that general advice on what? If the pH hit 7.5 at the nightly low, you’d think that is ok? I wouldn’t. Your coral skeletons will be slowly dissolving.