Upgrading Cycle Question

[brandon429]

Isn't it shocking to see cycling authority not mention skip cycling

it's the most ideal and best way to cycle in reefing. it's free because we had to pay more for established rock vs dry shelf rock.

I must have owned/built/uploaded 100 pico reefs to the web since 2001. not one of them took longer than 3 hours to assemble, and 100% were cycled upon completion. I have never, ever ever done anything but instant live rock skip cycling every other way is more boring than watching paint dry.

 

[CMarieDennison]

they're wrong. they're backwards, actually.

adding dilution helps your cause, it doesn't hurt or stress anything. you cannot get correct cycling information from 90% of what you read on forums as peers just make up stuff and pass it down the line for 20 years.

here's how they're backwards: lets say by some magic that lifting over rocks into the new tank harmed 50% of the current bacteria on those rocks.

you are transferring over the same bioload/number of fish from the prior tank

that leaves dilution; if you are moving into a smaller tank, less dilution, then that 50% lost bacteria gets compound insulted because wastes are now much stronger in concentration...less dilution. the fish see higher ammonia pressure even though they output the same amount, less dilution to spread it out.

and if you were doubling dilution, the impact of that same bioload is much less per square inch of contact area and it presents as % less nh3 to burn fish with.

having extra dilution is good, not bad for the worst-case scenario.

moving rocks among tanks simply harms nothing, even if we do it from a pet store to home, as a brand new reef, and skip that cycle. Here is nine pages of that exact type of cycle, rocks home from a pet store and then skip cycle:

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

70G Rubbermaid. Added a piece of live rock that’s 2 inch by 2 inch from current tank, 2 rock structures for new build and 4 krill immediately after mixing salt. Tossed 1 pill of vitamin c, d3, and b12. 2 vials of biodigest start and 2 of stop amino. This was Friday. fast forward to Saturday I...

www.reef2reef.com

you can see in that live rock transfer thread, we never discuss dilution. I don't ask if they're moving to a smaller or larger system bc it doesn't matter, the rocks are fully cycled as they move from one tank to another. you can't uncycle live rocks unless you cheat/bleach or boiling or freezing.

Well son of a gun. Thank you for explaining this to me, I wish I would have found you a week ago.
It IS crazy that skip cycling isn't talk about more. Or at least, more readily available for non-experts like me to find

 

[Rmckoy]

Marie

since cycling articles (and videos) don't delineate the various types, there are four main ways we cycle and each is a different mode, it's easy to confuse what we do for dry rock cycling (what you're doing with dr tims bottle bac + ammonia) and it seem strange compared to what bt wrote in post #14

your rocks aren't dry rocks, they don't need bacteria built up.

moving rocks among tanks never kills bacteria, it's harmless to them.

btmedic is describing a live rock transfer cycle

bottle bac sellers don't tell us of that type; because it needs no bac purchased nor ammonia dosed-they can't make money extra if folks know when their product isn't needed. exactly what he wrote in post #14 is your entire matter in one answer, you move the rocks and the cycle skips and no testing is required, it can't fail, no bottle bac is required.

of the four ways we reef cycle, live rock transfer skip cycles are how reef conventions are created instantly with 300 tanks with fifty thousand in reef rock, fish and corals all ready to start on the same date. it is an unspoken cycling method because sellers use it, buyers don't get that training info they only get the kind they must pay for.

Brandon ….
It’s can see if adding 20 lbs of rock from
A established system to another similar size system where it could be just a transfer with no disruption or negative effects on the beneficial bacteria .
but … if you take that same 20 lbs from the 20 gal system and add it to a 200 gal system depending if there are more livestock added or not .
but the surface area alone will not be enough bacteria colonized to suggest it’s already cycled .

when a few fish are added after being told it’s cycled and the ammonia raises due to a spike or what used to be referred to as a mini cycle .

I am with the “ let it cycle “ team and don’t think the rocks from the 20 will support life in the 150 as it currently is .

 

[brandon429]

That's a good detailed input.

This one part here is catchy though:

'if you take that same 20 lbs from the 20 gal system and add it to a 200 gal system depending if there are more livestock added or not .
but the surface area alone will not be enough bacteria colonized to suggest it’s already cycled'


I don't know of any examples of a display tank unable to carry an intended bioload, even an increased one.

to be at risk means we have more than one example of this type of tank fail, we have zero

it comes from the rumor mill

*that's not to say that instantly adding 30 tangs to a tank in that condition wouldn't crash, it's just to say we'd have to overdo bioloading so badly that nobody has done so that I've ever seen, that's why I didn't mention it here

lastly, in the sand rinse thread we make use of this rule very often as folks remove lots of their live rock at times and don't put the same amount back into the setup tank..that's an inverse way of testing what you're saying not by increasing bioload but by removing active surface area making the current bioload hard to carry

we never ask how much they're removing, just that they keep a reasonable amount and place it mid center tank (not in a sump where complete water contact takes longer to pass through)

the sole risk in tank transfer patterning is stirring up waste detritus or moving over any old sand, for reasons not yet finalized. we have had no losses from too little bacteria in the receiving tank if that helps to know.