Vibrant freaking me out..

[DSC reef]

I was an early adopter of vibrant before it hit the masses and I can assure you it works, I can also assure you that it can wreak havoc in a tank. In all these years of reefing it amazes me that people forget that a tank is an ecosystem and a product will react differently to members systems. I love seeing new products come out in the industry but I steer away from the mindset of "It works in my tank so it will work in yours", just look at the ways to kill aptasia threads!:p If you want to use vibrant great, just go slow and use half of the recommended dosage to start.

 

[bhallo0217]

I first started vibrant for a bubble algae issue. Twice a week for about 8 weeks now and I've had 0 issues with it. Bubble algae gone, and GHA took over for a while and actually got way worse before it started to get better.

I have several rock flowers, inverts, LPS, and SPS, and have 0 issue with it. If anything my SPS look better and have more PE as they are not trying to fight algae from taking over their bases.

If anyone has watched the videos on BRS about vibrant, they also noticed GHA got worse as the bacteria eats the most stubborn algae first. Then starts to work on the GHA.

Just keep in mind, it did not take overnight for your tank to get over run by algae, and vibrant is not a miracle cure in a bottle, and will not get rid of the algae overnight. This is a long process, and if vibrant is allowed to work(given enough time), it does work.

I wasn't looking for a quick response. I had been trying all options. My freak out was when my BTAs shriveled down to nothing and appear to have died during my Vibrant treatments.

 

[pecan2phat]

So different in every tank, no two are alike as others have stated. I have an anemone/clownfish themed tank and when I first started Vibrant, I overdosed by 10x!
Yes 10x, 1ml per gallon instead of 1ml per 10 gallons. All my anemones started to closeup on day 2 and looked a little bit stressed afterwards but not enough for me to run and do water changes.
So a 10x dosage may not kill nems but it's not to say a 1 or 2x dose will not either!

 

[Lasse]

contains proprietary strains of bacteria that actually eats the algae

Algae eating bacteria - you mean a bacterial pathogens for algae? If you use Vibrant - you will consciously introduce a pathogen into your ecosystem. It maybe works but you do not know what´s it looks like 3 years from now. You do not either know (when you start dosing) if your ecosystem will favor the strain of bacteria or not. All of these reports both pro and cons indicate that Vibrant will react differently in different systems and there is no way to know in which result it will turn into. I have read that thread before and there is no explanations how these bacteria eat (or what part of the algae it eats) a living micro algae. all heterotrophic bacteria eats algae - but not living algae. This strain says eat living micro algae - but do not hurt Macro algae? The Vibrant Thread starter (UWC = the manufacturer of the product) state

Vibrant is a true beast and we have not yet come across a algae that Vibrant can not beat out.

Vibrant does not affect macro algaes or refugiums. Algae scrubbers are a different story and we recommend taking them offline while using Vibrant.

Beside that this two statement opposes each other - the last statement is obviously false - The Bubble algae (Valonia sp) is a macro algae - not a micro algae and in other posts they claim that it works for bubble algae - but it takes time.

Hyprc also claim that Vibrant kill C. Serrulata (a macro algae) (see below)

In his/hers case it took time to build up a stable pathogenic strain but he/she claims that Vibrant took away both these two macro algae.

If it is true - we are in trouble - if there is a stable algae pathogenic strain of bacteria in that aquarium - whats are the chances it will be spread into the nature? We do not know.We do not either know in which way this strain of bacteria attack living algae and kill (and eat them afterwards).

Let us say that the bacteria´s main goal is the different proteins we normally call Chlorophyll (God forbid it is that way). In that case - by using Vibrant in our aquariums we make each of them to a laboratory that can create a disaster if there will be strains developed that can attack living plants or algae out in the nature.

Alarmist - maybe - but we do not know, we do not get enough of information about the product. As I see it - as the function of Vibrant have been explained - by using Vibrant we cross the line and use bacterial warfare against algae of different types. To use chemical warfare is bad enough IMO.

My CUC hasn't changed in 2 years. I have zero crabs. Just trochus, one turbo, and some baby whelks. Other than that just nassarius and a coral banded shrimp. First few months was just slowing of growth, then slight bleaching and withering (smaller), followed by fading to nothing in the following months slowly but consistently. Vibrant was the only change and it took months to begin taking significant effect. But once it did, results were pretty stunning. Both bubble and C. Serrulata began to die off all together. A problem that had only gotten worse in the past was quickly fading away to nothing. If it was just the bubble, sure. But nothing touches C. Serrulata. That's why I'm a believer. Both faded away at the same time with Vibrant with zero observable or testable negatives. Just had to watch nutrients more closely and dose a little more no3.

My point is still - if it take 7 months - you can´t claim with certainty that it is because of the Vibrant - it could be - but does not need to be. During 7 months it will be a lot of ecological changes in an ecosystem like an aquarium even if you do not see it. You do not know for sure if you get the same result if you did not dose it. If it work the way you say - it contradict the manufactures statement about not affecting macro algae. You maybe are right (and honestly - I believe your are right) but in that case UWC´s statement above is false

Sincerely Lasse

 

[homer1475]

I can cherry pick quotes too, but if you read on further, @UWC claims that it will not effect macros if used as a maintenance dose, but will most certainly kill macros if used weekly for algae control.

Again your cherry picking quotes to suit your needs.

 

[DSC reef]

I can cherry pick quotes too, but if you read on further, @UWC claims that it will not effect macros if used as a maintenance dose, but will most certainly kill macros if used weekly for algae control.

Again your cherry picking quotes to suit your needs.

It doesn't make the quotes less factual either. It's great it works for you but others including myself have had negative effects. Keep using it, no one is telling you your wrong. It's nice to have others opinions so they can make a decision to use it or not.

 

[homer1475]

Never said they weren't factual, but a cherry picked quote out of context can be factually incorrect as the ones above are without the rest of the details.


If no one ever experimented in this hobby we would still be only keeping fish and killing corals.

 

[SDK]

My opinion based on my own usage of Vibrant and following all of these threads from the beginning:

Vibrant as a standalone solution is better used either as a preventative, or in relatively clean tanks where a problem is caught early.

If you have a major infestation, step one should be a thorough manual cleaning and removal of algae/cyano/dinos from the rocks and substrate. Then incorporate the Vibrant to "finish off" the process.

It seems like most of the problems I see come from adding Vibrant to a tank that is already a mess. Then the nutrient spikes and bacterial blooms from die off are what cause the majority of issues..

I added Vibrant to my tank after noticing and removing about a half dozen bubble algae nodes and a few tufts of GHA. Mixed reef with SPS, LPS, Zoas, two BTA's and Ricordia (Florida and Yuma) . I had a small nutrient spike that I was able to painlessly deal with, never touched my lighting and had no reaction from anything. I'm sure the process would have been more painful if the tank was more degraded when I started.

 

[DSC reef]

Never said they weren't factual, but a cherry picked quote out of context can be factually incorrect as the ones above are without the rest of the details.


If no one ever experimented in this hobby we would still be only keeping fish and killing corals.

I guess you missed my post where I think it's great these products come out for the reefing community. I support these new products but I also realize it won't work for everyone.

 

[homer1475]

I guess you missed my post where I think it's great these products come out for the reefing community. I support these new products but I also realize it won't work for everyone.

The last bit in my post wasn't directed at you! Just a general though on the subject, and why when certain threads such as these pop up, you get the same people spouting the same thing in every thread.

 

[Lasse]

I can cherry pick quotes too

For sure - you just did that with your bold :)

I can cherry pick quotes too, but if you read on further, @UWC claims that it will not effect macros if used as a maintenance dose, but will most certainly kill macros if used weekly for algae control.

Again your cherry picking quotes to suit your needs.

We can discuss who cherry picking or not. If I read a statement in an introductory post - i believe that they have investigate their own product in a way that they can make a fault prove statement,

Quotes on the first page

Vibrant does not affect macro algaes or refugiums. Algae scrubbers are a different story and we recommend taking them offline while using Vibrant.

What would you like to know? No harm to macros.

In page 4 after rather much reports of dying macro - this post pops up

Vibrant doesn't attack the macros themselves but it can affect the nutrients they depend on. Guess we should re word what we say about macro algaes. Best would be to Use Vibrant to rid your algae issues and make your tank look new again, add new macro and switch to maintenance dose of 1x per two weeks and your macros will be ok. The thing people need to understand about macros is they are not doing much for your systems unless you are growing and harvesting ALOT.

No evidences that it attack the macros the way they describe - let me doubt that statement.

But the point is - it kill macros. How with zooxanthellae ? Why it is two types of Vibrant?

Saltwater version is a stronger blend and not meant to be used with live coral. It is for fish only systems.

The impression I get of all this is that an overdose will kill everything that use photosynthetic actions - it is only dose depended.

There is a fundamental differences between adding chemicals in order to kill something comparing with adding bacteria for the task.

With chemical warfare - the dose will very, very, very seldom or ever get higher than the initial dose - if something happens with the dose at all - it will decrease - not increase

With biological warfare - there is a different story. From the initial dose - the actual ecosystem decide if the dosage will increase or decrease because bacteria is living things that reproduce themselves.

That´s the reason why Vibrant seems to work different in different aquariums.

With chemicals - the result of a dos can be predicted.

With biological or microbiological warfare - what´s happen with the initial dose day 1, 2, 3 and so on - no one can predict - it depends of the ecosystem and propagation rate of current species. This lesson have been learned millions of times worldwide. (tip - Google "Can toads in Australia")

I´m glad that it works for you - apparently - you had a Vibrant resistant ecosystem from the beginning. But - that it works for you does not mean that it works everywhere and in all reef aquarium. Do not attack everyone with another opinion because we do not attack you. On the first page - the producer state

Vibrant works differently in every aquarium.

(I hope I´m not cherry picking again and that statement have been rejected in some post of the massive thread)

My criticisms is mainly that Vibrant seems to use an algae pathogenic bacteria strain and that should we for sure not use in a hobby.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[bhallo0217]

Well after 70+ hours of darkness, it looked like it was gone but now looks like it's coming back. Dinos? Any input? Thanks

Barry

Tried to upload pics but it wont let me

 

[Havasuviking]

Been using it for 2 months. It is doing it's job with no problems.

 

[Thales]

Has there been ethical discussion about using this product? By analogy - If you had barking dogs and there was a pill that stopped most dogs from barking, but killed a small percentage of them, would you give your dogs that pill?

 

[NeutronMan]

If the bacteria attack micro algae, what’s to stop them from killing zooxanthellea (so?) in the corals? Don’t corals take in bacteria? If they take up the Vibrant bacteria, won’t that cause problems, internally?

 

[hdhong]

I've been using for 4 weeks now and it's gotten rid of 90% of the algea in my tank. I used in both SPS dominated tank and a mix reef tank. BRS also did a test a while back as well.

 

[hyprc]

Lasse,
First off a problem that is only getting worse and has no influences other than time will not magically solve itself. Please point me to any threads stating their bubble solved itself, dissolving over the course of a few months with no input from the reefkeeper.
Secondly, Vibrant's affect does not seem to last long past a few months after the last dose. I wouldn't be too worried about it's ability to survive long term 'getting into nature'. I'm sure this bacteria has been around for a long time and is nothing new to our planet... there's something unfavorable to long term survival/ability to compete long term.

 

[stacksoner]

Has there been ethical discussion about using this product? By analogy - If you had barking dogs and there was a pill that stopped most dogs from barking, but killed a small percentage of them, would you give your dogs that pill?

Unlike vibrant users, most people try to understand why their dog is barking before deciding to use risky drugs to stop it.

 

[SDK]

Well after 70+ hours of darkness, it looked like it was gone but now looks like it's coming back. Dinos? Any input? Thanks

Barry

Tried to upload pics but it wont let me

You will need to upload good pics to get any sort of diagnosis on dinoflagellates. Are you clicking on the icon above the text box that looks like a photo, or trying to use the "Attach Files" button below? Try it both ways....

 

[Lasse]

Lasse,
First off a problem that is only getting worse and has no influences other than time will not magically solve itself. Please point me to any threads stating their bubble solved itself, dissolving over the course of a few months with no input from the reefkeeper.

It could be Vibrant that kill your macro algae after 7 months treatment - it could be other things. My point is - we can´t know for sure - only calculate the likelihood of it. But even likelihood is difficult to definite - just read this monologue from the Swedish comedian Tage Danielson. :D First read just before the Swedish referendum on nuclear power in 1979 and after the nuclear accident in Harrisburg

I'm sure this bacteria has been around for a long time and is nothing new to our planet... there's something unfavorable to long term survival/ability to compete long term.

IMO - This two sentences contradict each other. i do not get how a bacteria can be around for a long time and the same time be unfavorable to long term survival or ability to compete long term. :rolleyes:


Sincerely Lasse