Waterchanges might be a farce

[andrewkw]

I did a 5g water change yesterday on a 100ish gallon system. There was 1” of detritus in the bottom of the jug when I was done. How else does that get removed if I wasn’t doing water changes?

It's been proven you don't have to do water changes for many reasons, there are ways around them everything from 2 part dosing to the trident method. NONE of those things help with detritus removal.

I do weekly water changes to remove some detritus - I am not sterilizing my tank but I am preventing a problem from building up years later. Secondly I am observing my reef with all the flow off prior to doing the water change. Making sure corals are healthy, nothing has fallen over, seeing whats crept up on the back wall ect. It is a good observation time since you normally don't see your tank in this way. Sure you could turn everything off and look, but having the water mixing in front of the tank means I am going to do it 52 weeks a year.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Brother.....im seeing the same exact things you mentioned above

Amen to your comments

Lol.

it was by pure accident on my end, but I will take the results it caused. When I saw she used 10 gallons of phyto in a month, I about flipped out then saw the tanks. Even my 40 breeder zoa tank that was started with dry rock had a massive reduction in algae and po4. I had fought po4 like a bad habit in that tank prior.

what’s weird, is even my nems have done better with it. Maybe they use it also, not sure. I am talking about merten, true carpets, mags, haddonis and btas. All look better and more vibrant. Either way, it is working for me, so I am not changing a thing.

 

[HeyJay]

This is something that is probably system dependent (and dependent on what you're doing, etc).

I'm pretty simple. I manually dose 2 part, I run a protein skimmer... And that's about it.

Bi-weekly 5-10% water changes keep my tank cleaner and coral healthier. I personally prefer this to managing a bunch of different additives.

 

[lkc]

I was thinking about this same thing last night while doing a 20 gallon water change (I have about 140 gallons water volume). I've been trying to increase my pod population, and I can see many in my sump refugium (I have chaeto and ~20lbs of liverock in there with some snails). Typically, I would siphon out the 20 gallons from the sump, but now I'm concerned I'm going to remove pods, and I want them for my mandarin. So would I be better to siphon from the DT where I'm less likely to siphon off pods? I'm so confused!

Easy. Zip tie a net sock to the end of the hose and dump all the live critters out after removing the water. I once found a clear acro shrimp in my sock....Didn't know I had him.

 

[ReefGamer]

What is this blue-green plankton I keep seeing? I see it in another thread as well. When i type it in google, all that comes up is blue-green algae ( cyanobacteria). And the products that come up are just 'green phytoplankton'

 

[Potatohead]

If you use a two part with trace, or a calcium reactor you can really cut back on your water changes assuming your nutrients are not out of control. I was doing 10% a week pretty religiously but have since cut that back to every 2-3 weeks depending on my schedule and I haven't noticed really any difference at all.

 

[ZoWhat]

What algea strands are you putting into your tank.

Mercer of Montana

Their competitor AlgaeBarn has a product called OceanMagik !BUT! you can NOT culture AlgaeBarn's stuff. Its strictly pour it in the tank and reorder a new bottle every month ;Drool

Mercer's (pictured above) you can absolutely cultivate yourself with a jug, airstone and a strong light.

With a little YouTube researching on How To Cultivate Phyto.... you'll have gallons of live phyto to feed your tank. More than you'll need. S

ome ppl bottle their excess in 32oz Gatorade containers and sell it thru local ReefClubs and Craigslist

FYI....Best Live Phyto is less than 4 weeks old.

Most stuff at LFS (like PhytoFeast) is mainly dead phyto bc of how long it took the LFS to sell it :eek:

HTH



.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Typically most people culture the below.

Isochrysis galbana

I culture that and Nannochloropsis oculta

 

[stingeragent]

Thanks for the info guys. Do yall know about how much you dose per day?

 

[ReefHomieJon]

So my background is reefing since 2005.

I use to be this big believer in bimonthly waterchanges .... but now slowly AND firmly changing my mind.

First off, I'm not a SPSer (acros and the like) ... thats a whooooole different ballgame. I'm a LPS'er, heavily involved in zoas/palys

Okay...to the point of this post:

Ever since discovering dosing the strain of blue-green Phytoplankton... im starting to truly believe that waterchanges are only really necessary for major/minor element control that get low or high.

So I'm asking myself;

"If I'm doing regular waterchanges "just because...", am I taking out all that good biochemistry that includes built up phytoplankton? I mean... look at a natural reef swarming in blue-green phytoplankton giving that ocean reef water that turquoise look"

"Is adding brand new saltwater putting a stress on my little ecosystem, where this new water has to biochemically cook and convert??"

Ever since:

* slowing down my waterchanges

* using my skimming to more-wet

* dosing blue-green strain of phytoplankton

* dosing trace elements thru a product called Replinish

* testing and looking for out of range Calcium, Alk and Mag

..... Im seeing mushrooms, zoas, palys plump up to sizes ive never seen before.

So religious Waterchanger ppl might say "What about nitrate/Phosphate control? You gotta change your water every 2 weeks!"

In some mild researching, I'm reading how dosing the strain of Blue-Green Phytoplankton OUTCOMPETES nuisance algae and makes for a more balanced tank.

I'm reeeeally starting to think regular waterchanges is dumping good biochemical water down the drain that worked so hard to achieve a balance.

If I can control my NO3 and PO4 thru heavy skimming, dosing phytoplankton .... why would I do a waterchange UNLESS smthg like Calcium or Carbonate or Magnesium was off?

And if I can dose major and minor elements to keep them within range...AND my no3/po4 are in check... why do a waterchange?

Dilute my biochemistry and the phytoplankton > zooplankton > corals and fish ecosystem chain (?)

To where new saltwater has to "re-cook" that biochemistry?

WHATS YOUR OPINION ON WATERCHANGES????




.

I rarely do then either. My tank seems to be in better shape when I DO T do them. My nitrates never rise above 1-2(skimmer been off for 2 weeks and my corals colors are better than ever) and I control phosphates with a small amount of GFO(half recommended dose) and a large refugium. I dose trace elements when I dose calcium using red sea’s easy dose system. BUT Is there something I’m missing out on by not using blue/green phyto? I need to look up this stuff

 

[jpnegrete14]

So just for kicks and giggles. I’m gonna offer a completely different point of view. When I started out in the hobby 15ish yrs ago every single LFS I frequented (and there was a lot lol) suggested weekly 10% water changes(roughly). Suggested is actually an understatement. They pretty much told me and any hobbyist in the store that it was the ONLY way to sustain a tank. AND guess what the LFS sold. The salt you needed to make your own saltwater or at an even higher premium the already mixed saltwater if you didn’t have a means to make your own at home.

I believe this has hindered even the questioning of WCs and has undoubtedly hindered any kind of widespread acknowledgement that water changes might in fact be a “farce” as the OP stated.

In a hobby where anecdotes, and YouTube videos carry tremendous weight it is hard and scary to breakaway from the norm.

A perfect example of the kind of push I’m talking about is Gillette’s marketing campaigns for female specific razors in the early 20th century. Gillette manufactured a problem that didn’t exist and offered a product to solve that problem.

I’m not saying we don’t need salt to be produced or zero water changes is the answer. I’m just saying that the OP might have a very valid point and there could be a bigger driving force against it. Bigger than a bunch of pure hearted reef geeks discussing it on a forum.

Just my two cents =]

 

[ZoWhat]

Important to RENOTE:

FYI....Best Live Phyto is less than 4 weeks old.

Most stuff at LFS (like PhytoFeast) is mainly dead phyto bc of how long it took the LFS to sell it :eek:

 

[nereefpat]

AND guess what the LFS sold. The salt you needed to make your own saltwater or at an even higher premium the already mixed saltwater if you didn’t have a means to make your own at home.

Yes, the LFS' profit margin on salt is so great :rolleyes:

 

[jpnegrete14]

Yes, the LFS' profit margin on salt is so great :rolleyes:

Well you already said the key word . Profit. Profit is a monetary benefit no matter how small or big. It it wasn't a monetary benefit it wouldn't be profitable. You surely don't think they sell it just to keep you happy and are losing money on it? If they do they're fools. LFS is just one example. There are big players like BRS and marine depot

 

[ZoWhat]

What algea strands are you putting into your tank.

More-on Mercer of Montana Live Phytoplankton

(I swear I'm not a promoter for them....its just the product I've had the most success with)

Description of their Phyto:
"Cultured directly from a Petri Dish, you can be assured that you have only Nannochloropsis Oculata, and not a mixture of various types of microalgae. The genus Nannochloropsis Oculata is widely accepted as the standard for reef keeping aquarists to promote the growth and vibrancy of many corals, invertebrates, and other filter feeder livestock."

 

[sfin52]

Mercer of Montana

Their competitor AlgaeBarn has a product called OceanMagik !BUT! you can NOT culture AlgaeBarn's stuff. Its strictly pour it in the tank and reorder a new bottle every month ;Drool

Mercer's (pictured above) you can absolutely cultivate yourself with a jug, airstone and a strong light.

With a little YouTube researching on How To Cultivate Phyto.... you'll have gallons of live phyto to feed your tank. More than you'll need. S

ome ppl bottle their excess in 32oz Gatorade containers and sell it thru local ReefClubs and Craigslist

FYI....Best Live Phyto is less than 4 weeks old.

Most stuff at LFS (like PhytoFeast) is mainly dead phyto bc of how long it took the LFS to sell it :eek:

HTH



.

Everywhere I look out of stock another source?

 

[terraincognita]

 

[Paul B]

I feel we change far to much water and it is counter productive. The tanks with the most tweeking and messing with are the ones that crash the most.
I change about 20% of my water maybe 4 or 5 times a year and have been doing that or less for fifty years.

No problems yet.

 

[swiss1939]

Mercer of Montana

Their competitor AlgaeBarn has a product called OceanMagik !BUT! you can NOT culture AlgaeBarn's stuff. Its strictly pour it in the tank and reorder a new bottle every month ;Drool

Mercer's (pictured above) you can absolutely cultivate yourself with a jug, airstone and a strong light.

With a little YouTube researching on How To Cultivate Phyto.... you'll have gallons of live phyto to feed your tank. More than you'll need. S

ome ppl bottle their excess in 32oz Gatorade containers and sell it thru local ReefClubs and Craigslist

FYI....Best Live Phyto is less than 4 weeks old.

Most stuff at LFS (like PhytoFeast) is mainly dead phyto bc of how long it took the LFS to sell it :eek:

HTH



.

I'm with you on the no water changes thing, having just started the dsr-ez method, but i'm new and no expert on anything. I set the tank up for the first two months after cycle with regular water changes just to get some stability while I set up the dsr ez dosing stuff. Now I haven't done a water change in almost a month and have no plans to do anything but replenish as needed from removing test samples and skimmer cup removal.

Where I question this blue-green phyto as anything different than all the other phyto sold. How is the blue-green phyto any better or any different?

I also disagree that algaebarn's phyto can't be cultured and must be bought regularly. Sure they want you to buy it regularly, but its just phyto. Mix salt water up in a jug, dump some of their oceanmagik into it, and add f/2 food with some lights and it wil grow and culture just the same as any other phyto.

Luckily I stumbled upon another thread early on in my setup I think it was Dana Riddle who suggested heavy phyto dosing with skimming. So I have been adding phyto daily since the cycle ended and am up to about 20ml/day for my reefer 170. Nice thick green skimmate! But now it's definitely time to start culturing my own as I don't want to keep buying this stuff when its possible to just keep it coming regularly at home!

 

[ZoWhat]

Everywhere I look out of stock another source?

Not sure.... try reaching out to them: