Week 2 Fluke Treatment with Prazi

[Treefer32]

I'm on week 2 of treating my 340 gallon mixed reef with Prazipro. I treated 2 weeks ago - removed all carbon and no skimmer, treated for 72 hours, did 2-3 water changes in the last week and ran carbon the entire week for exactly 7 days.

I started the second treatment on Friday afternoon and today @ 3:00Pm is 72 hours from start of the second treatment. During the first treatment my Dragon wrasse buried himself in the sand and didn't come out for 4 days. When he did he ate voraciously and was fine.

Yesterday, I was watching the fish and noticed my Dragon wrasse being out and tolerating the treatment more by being out in the open, however, he was shaking his head and "yawning a lot!" Showing all the fluke symptoms. Then I saw a gash on his right side just above his fin and a quarter inch from his gills. The gash is fairly small but it's there. I know prazipro can supress hunger, but seriously all of my fish are more hungry when I treat. My dragon wrasse ate a hole 1-2 ounces of home made frozen food by himself. (I know because swallowed large pieces of food hole.. ) Twice what he normally eats.

My Caribbean blue tang is scratching a lot (something he did some before treating, but something he's definitely doing more now during treatment). My Chocolate tang has some surface damage to his flesh that was noticable with this treatment, but seems to have mostl healed up in the last day or so.

My copperband still has a circle of white dots in his eye. It's almost perfectly circular. The other eye doesn't have anything that I can tell. I don't know if the white dots are an injury or prazipro resistant flukes? When I dosed the copperband swam right into the cloud of prazipro. I was hopeful this would give him the strongest dose of it. But nothing has changed with him other than he's eating good and acting normal.

My questions are,
1. Is scratching a sign the prazipro is working?
2. The gash in my Dragon wrasse, is that from flukes leaving his body, damaging his scales or flesh?
3. We talked about needing to do 3 treatments to ensure all life cycles of the flukes are killed, is 3 still recommended given the symptoms I've described? Is 2 treatments sufficient?

FYI @Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm on week 2 of treating my 340 gallon mixed reef with Prazipro. I treated 2 weeks ago - removed all carbon and no skimmer, treated for 72 hours, did 2-3 water changes in the last week and ran carbon the entire week for exactly 7 days.

I started the second treatment on Friday afternoon and today @ 3:00Pm is 72 hours from start of the second treatment. During the first treatment my Dragon wrasse buried himself in the sand and didn't come out for 4 days. When he did he ate voraciously and was fine.

Yesterday, I was watching the fish and noticed my Dragon wrasse being out and tolerating the treatment more by being out in the open, however, he was shaking his head and "yawning a lot!" Showing all the fluke symptoms. Then I saw a gash on his right side just above his fin and a quarter inch from his gills. The gash is fairly small but it's there. I know prazipro can supress hunger, but seriously all of my fish are more hungry when I treat. My dragon wrasse ate a hole 1-2 ounces of home made frozen food by himself. (I know because swallowed large pieces of food hole.. ) Twice what he normally eats.

My Caribbean blue tang is scratching a lot (something he did some before treating, but something he's definitely doing more now during treatment). My Chocolate tang has some surface damage to his flesh that was noticable with this treatment, but seems to have mostl healed up in the last day or so.

My copperband still has a circle of white dots in his eye. It's almost perfectly circular. The other eye doesn't have anything that I can tell. I don't know if the white dots are an injury or prazipro resistant flukes? When I dosed the copperband swam right into the cloud of prazipro. I was hopeful this would give him the strongest dose of it. But nothing has changed with him other than he's eating good and acting normal.

My questions are,
1. Is scratching a sign the prazipro is working?
2. The gash in my Dragon wrasse, is that from flukes leaving his body, damaging his scales or flesh?
3. We talked about needing to do 3 treatments to ensure all life cycles of the flukes are killed, is 3 still recommended given the symptoms I've described? Is 2 treatments sufficient?

FYI @Jay Hemdal

Sounds to me that there are multiple issues going on, they may not all be related. One thing, the "Prazipro resistant" flukes are actually just Neobenedenia, a Capsalid fluke that has eggs that prazi doesn't harm...once the prazi dissipates, they can hatch out.

1. Is scratching a sign the prazipro is working? Typically no, although there is some theory that prazi makes the flukes move around, causing the fish ti "itch", but I've not seen that myself.

2. The gash in my Dragon wrasse, is that from flukes leaving his body, damaging his scales or flesh? No, that must be from another injury, flukes leaving do not leave a noticeable mark.

3. We talked about needing to do 3 treatments to ensure all life cycles of the flukes are killed, is 3 still recommended given the symptoms I've described? Is 2 treatments sufficient? I always treat with prazi 3 times, and even then, it sometimes doesn't cure Neobendenia (if that happens to even be the fluke you have).

Jay

 

[Treefer32]

That's what I was afraid of. grrr. I was hoping there were signs things were improving. I was hoping to add more fish in a month, but, if fish are stable, maybe not 100% healthy, maybe adding more fish not the best move.

 

[lagatbezan]

@Jay Hemdal is it that prazipro is simply ineffective with Neobenedenia in general or is it ineffective bc it doesn’t effect their eggs and multiple treatments are needed?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal is it that prazipro is simply ineffective with Neobenedenia in general or is it ineffective bc it doesn’t effect their eggs and multiple treatments are needed?

Two things: Prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs. the second issue is more complicated. Each time you dose prazi, a population of bacteria grows that consumes it as food. They get really good at that. By the third treatment, they are consuming it so fast that it stops it from having enough time to really work. Four or more treatments over time and the prazi stops working, I've had to sterilize tanks and start them up again just to get rid of the bacteria.

Jay

 

[Treefer32]

Two things: Prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs. the second issue is more complicated. Each time you dose prazi, a population of bacteria grows that consumes it as food. They get really good at that. By the third treatment, they are consuming it so fast that it stops it from having enough time to really work. Four or more treatments over time and the prazi stops working, I've had to sterilize tanks and start them up again just to get rid of the bacteria.

Jay

Interesting, so, what if I wait a month, do a few water changes, and I got some microbacter7 to start dosing different strains of bacteria. (Have diatoms in a couple areas). Would dosing MicroBacter7, not as a startup tank, but at maintenance dosages or high concentrations such as startup tank help to eliminate the prazi bacteria (competition). Water changes to remove the inert Prazipro, carbon to remove it faster, and MicroBacter7 to replace the bacteria populations? Then in a month or two, do the third dose, or is that pretty pointless?

I really think the various marks on some of the fish sides are flukes having left the sides of the fish. But, hard to know really. Just curious if there's any strategies to kill off the bacteria by replacing with alternate competing bacteria. And in the process, eliminate my diatom problem?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Interesting, so, what if I wait a month, do a few water changes, and I got some microbacter7 to start dosing different strains of bacteria. (Have diatoms in a couple areas). Would dosing MicroBacter7, not as a startup tank, but at maintenance dosages or high concentrations such as startup tank help to eliminate the prazi bacteria (competition). Water changes to remove the inert Prazipro, carbon to remove it faster, and MicroBacter7 to replace the bacteria populations? Then in a month or two, do the third dose, or is that pretty pointless?

I really think the various marks on some of the fish sides are flukes having left the sides of the fish. But, hard to know really. Just curious if there's any strategies to kill off the bacteria by replacing with alternate competing bacteria. And in the process, eliminate my diatom problem?

I haven’t tried all that, but I do know the heterotrophic bacteria that consumes prazi can remain inactive for months and months, waiting for its next meal.
Jay

 

[Treefer32]

I haven’t tried all that, but I do know the heterotrophic bacteria that consumes prazi can remain inactive for months and months, waiting for its next meal.
Jay

So, annoying! Well, there was definitely a larger dip in oxygen levels this time. PH is hitting 7.92 at night. Is the loss of oxygen from the bacteria bloom? The lowest my ph used to get is 8.01.

I didn't run oxygen to the tank like I probably should have. 17 fish in 350 gallon I figure it's lightly to moderately stocked, so, hoping no oxygen damage.) Just went through the 20 gallon water change and added a fresh batch of carbon. I'll do two more water changes by Friday. Plus whatever the turf scrubber consumes.

 

[anew2thereef]

I just had a fluke issue in my tank, from a wrasse I bought. I used prazipro also... it works I would recommend have a air stone in the return pump area... Its not going to harm the fish leave it running with the prazipro in the tank 24/7 for the 5-7 days... I did a 7 days treatment, on the 7th day I did a 70 percent water change (I wouldn’t recommend that). But just do a 40 percent or minimal of 20 percent water change... the prazipro does kill the fluke but unfortunately fluke will lay eggs that’s when you wait 3 days reintroduce the same process of the prazipro. And it should wipe them out... But when you do clean the sand turkey blast it get whatever eggs that may lay around in the sand.

 

[anew2thereef]

I just had a fluke issue in my tank, from a wrasse I bought. I used prazipro also... it works I would recommend have a air stone in the return pump area... Its not going to harm the fish leave it running with the prazipro in the tank 24/7 for the 5-7 days... I did a 7 days treatment, on the 7th day I did a 70 percent water change (I wouldn’t recommend that). But just do a 40 percent or minimal of 20 percent water change... the prazipro does kill the fluke but unfortunately fluke will lay eggs that’s when you wait 3 days reintroduce the same process of the prazipro. And it should wipe them out... But when you do clean the sand turkey blast it get whatever eggs that may lay around in the sand.

 

[anew2thereef]

And sorry after the second dosing of parzipro a other 20 percent water change. That’s when you reintroduce carbon and leave the skimmer on just remove the cup... it’s gonna go bananas for a while...

 

[Treefer32]

Yeah, I'm doing 3 days of treatment then 7 days of removal. Then three days of treatment, then 7 days of removal. I think it's working, weird shaped cuts in fish and marks on the sides of fish, I think there's stuff falling off. The third and final treatment I'll go the full 7 days.

 

[anew2thereef]

Yea the cuts was probably... him/her trying to get the fluke off the gill plate.. It should heal I would also after the final dosing fresh water dip the fish.. 5 min max... and hopefully all his other tank mates don’t get hosted by the fluke..