What can you "skimp" on in the hobby? Is there such a thing?

[Tankkeepers]

I did say I don't think one should skimp on water changes but I agree with you, Paul that it is definitely possible to do too many water changes. I believe cyano and dinos are opportunistic about tanks that do not have enough nutrients and over doing the water changes is one of the actions that can contribute to that.
I also use a cheap swing arm hydrometer and have for the 25 years I have kept a marine aquarium. Like you I calibrate it occasionally at the LFS and I have never suffered any losses as a result of using a hydrometer.

In my experience cyno has only ever happened to me if there are silicate in the water but I also agree to much water changing is just as bad as not enoff as you can starve things

 

[vlangel]

In my experience cyno has only ever happened to me if there are silicate in the water but I also agree to much water changing is just as bad as not enoff as you can starve things

Yes silicates ( as in new sand and a new glass aquarium ) definitely fuel a reddish algae on the sandbed surface and rocks and most everything. I always heard that was diatoms. In the old days we always referred to them as the ugly phase a new aquarium had to go through.
I believe cyano although also reddish is different.

 

[Michael White]

Yes, you can skimp, but it means more work and less stocking options. Do a soft coral tank with basic hob filtration and cheap T5 or CF lighting. Buy cheapest salt and do minimal water changes. Only thing I would not skimp on is return pumps if you have a sump, heaters, and circulation pumps. Everything else you’re paying for convenience( less work or research), aesthetics, gee wiz features, or to support delicate livestock.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Yes silicates ( as in new sand and a new glass aquarium ) definitely fuel a reddish algae on the sandbed surface and rocks and most everything. I always heard that was diatoms. In the old days we always referred to them as the ugly phase a new aquarium had to go through.
I believe cyano although also reddish is different.

Not in my experiences under a microscope it was definatly cyno iv never seen red diatoms before has always been brown in my experience but cyno and diatoms comes in many difrent colors and really depends on the lights and what color its reflecting back in my old tank had way way way way to much led lighting my par was pushing 1000 at the sand bed (build my own light back when leds first came into the hobbie) and I had a blue green cyno in that tank (freaked out untill I read up and found its only in freahwater the blue green type can be poision and even the just becouse its the correct color does not mean its the correct type

 

[Subsea]

In my experience cyno has only ever happened to me if there are silicate in the water but I also agree to much water changing is just as bad as not enoff as you can starve things

Please elaborate on silicates & cyno.

My makeup water comes from 1000’ deep in Middle Trinity Aquifier which is a limestone formation that was an ancient inland sea which amongst other minerals is high in silicates as diatoms we’re major inhabitant of this shallow sea. I found this out when I dosed silicates to provide trace minerals for sponges.

 

[Paul B]

I also use a cheap swing arm hydrometer and have for the 25 years I have kept a marine aquarium. Like you I calibrate it occasionally at the LFS and I have never suffered any losses as a result of using a hydrometer.

I realize many people get hung up on numbers but salinity isn't that important. Close is close enough.
From experience I have seen my salinity go from salty enough to dip a glass in the tank to coat the rim with salt for a margarita and fresh enough to have a happy pair of kissing gourami's and bull frogs.

Of course those were accidents and not on purpose. But In decades I have never lost a fish or coral from a change in salinity.
This exact salinity thing probably came about from people who sell refractometers.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Please elaborate on silicates & cyno.

My makeup water comes from 1000’ deep in Middle Trinity Aquifier which is a limestone formation that was an ancient inland sea which amongst other minerals is high in silicates as diatoms we’re major inhabitant of this shallow sea. I found this out when I dosed silicates to provide trace minerals for sponges.

Every time in the past iv done a water change using my tap well water I get a cyno bloom within days and this can only be contributed to the silicates in the well water that would otherwise not be there took me about a year to figure out where the cyno was coming from as the only other thing in the water is calcium magnesium and iron over time I used ro water and doesed it with what is in my tap water and ran tests and found that the only time I got a bloom was when the water had silicates in it once I removed the silicates from the water but left everything else the same the bloom went away within days aka starting with ro then distilled pure 0ppm not di water then dosed water to bring it to well tap water lvls then did a water change to see what effect it had iver the course of 2 weeks the rince and repeat testing a difrent element each time untill I found which one was causing the problem

 

[borillion]

Lol uhh tap water for my first 4 years without ro/di. Didn't have algae problems either.

 

[borillion]

I also built my own led controller with an esp8266 dev board and tasker for android ( essentially a time triggered url), real basic but gets the job done

 

[Jake atkinson]

Since 2005 anything I have tried to cut corners on or save money with bit me in the butt everytime. You get what you pay for in the long run. I refuse to skimp anymore unless there is just no other alternative.

 

[Subsea]

Every time in the past iv done a water change using my tap well water I get a cyno bloom within days and this can only be contributed to the silicates in the well water that would otherwise not be there took me about a year to figure out where the cyno was coming from as the only other thing in the water is calcium magnesium and iron over time I used ro water and doesed it with what is in my tap water and ran tests and found that the only time I got a bloom was when the water had silicates in it once I removed the silicates from the water but left everything else the same the bloom went away within days aka starting with ro then distilled pure 0ppm not di water then dosed water to bring it to well tap water lvls then did a water change to see what effect it had iver the course of 2 weeks the rince and repeat testing a difrent element each time untill I found which one was causing the problem

Post in thread 'Cyano nutrient loop (catch 22)'. I t Post in thread 'Cyano nutrient loop (catch 22)'vemt.y read this thread and thought you would appreciate their discussion. Considering the many variety of Cynobacteria you have a cyno that likes silicates.

 

[SHNICI]

I think we change far to much water in this hobby and I also think a refractometer is a waste of money.
Buy a cheap swing arm hydrometer, go to a LFS and test some water using their refractometer, then draw a line on your swing arm hydrometer at 0.125 and use that.

Or do what I do. Take the thing to the place where they collected your fish. Jump in the water with it and draw a line on it where it floats. Can't get better than that and your fish will love you.

+1, the best and perfect way to calibrate

i just want to caution people about doing this as the cheap swing arm type readers can and will change over time and a lab grade refractometer can be got for 18 dollors about the same price as the swing arm types I used to use the swing arm type and after 4 years it was reading 1.025 but in reality the water was 1.018 and that's how far it got off in 4 years as it was accurate when new but over time just like needing to calibrate a refractometer

Also great pic hehe love it

+1 That's correct, they change

This is probably true which is why when I buy a fish. I ask the guy or girl to test the salinity of the water in the bag with his refractometer. When I get it home I check it with my swing arm hydrometer.

That's a fantastic idea wish I would of thought of that live and learn

Always after coming back at home with some new creature I test the water in the bag and compare it with my water to see what's the difference. I do realise not all the LFS keep the same specs, and even they use exp methods for testing, they don't calibrate them testing hardware often enough, saying that leave me to the point I'm checking what are the difference which help me with the acclimation for how long to do it (always over 1 hour, sometimes take me over 2-3, never got stressed coral that way)

I also use a cheap swing arm hydrometer and have for the 25 years I have kept a marine aquarium. Like you I calibrate it occasionally at the LFS and I have never suffered any losses as a result of using a hydrometer.

(After all quoted MSGs):

I don't calibrate, I have few arm hydrometers, also few exp refractometers, which I just left them in the cabinet to get dust ....
Have real Hydromer - Glass one, by TMC which is probably 25-30 years old, it don't need calibration at all, it don't need any maintenance (only to be clear from the salts after usage). Recently (about 2 months ago) I was able to find the latest TMC version on the same glass hydrometer (with changes in the scale) which is showing the SG between 1.025 - 1.027, the older "generation" show me between 1.023 - 1.025 (the safe diapazon) but they are completely equal.

nothing better than this (only the negative side is, if I have to measure more shallow water, as this need near 35cm H in water. if can't use it, I do calibrate hydro/refracto - meter to this one and I'm always fine. Still testing the water from the suppliers and I recalibrate to the glass one.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Post in thread 'Cyano nutrient loop (catch 22)'. I t Post in thread 'Cyano nutrient loop (catch 22)'vemt.y read this thread and thought you would appreciate their discussion. Considering the many variety of Cynobacteria you have a cyno that likes silicates.

Very interesting read and ya I would definaltly agree the most of the time cyno is caused by an imbalance I'm just ussually the odd ball out heck I even had bryopsis before anyone really new what it was took me about a year to get it identified the first time 14 ish years ago lol iv definatly had some real odd things happen but fir the first few year I did nothing but experiment had 31 systems total 10 of which were fresh 20 were marine 1 brackish took me several years of messing around untill I was able to compleate a self contained eco system with only micro and macro nutrients added and freshwater top off (only was able to do this in marine not enoff diversity in fresh to compleat the loop in a tank I even had freshwater copepods at one time and the brackish tank was a simple volcano shrimp tank I dosed to feed the algie they ate) thats the great thing about this hobbie and also the bad thing is cyno is not cyno as there are several types all are not the same(it exists even in the atmoshpear) heck I know of 3 types of bryopsis algie alone iv had them all only algie I have yet to have is velvet fingers crossed that never happens

 

[Tankkeepers]

I have 1 freshwater 29 gal 1 marine mainly soft with 2 duncan lps 1 photosynthetic gorgonian and soon 1 sps acro still looking for the perfect one for the color scheme of setup I would like to find somthing with a yellow skeleton and blue polyps preferably a fast grower (pm me please if anyone knows one as if yet to track one down been looking off and on for 3 months now) thank you again for the good read as I love reading everything I can about everything I can

 

[Tankkeepers]

Lol uhh tap water for my first 4 years without ro/di. Didn't have algae problems either.

Wish my well would let me use tap lol (well I do for the freshwater tank I have otherwise my plants dont do well)

 

[2BIGTANKS]

It’s a yes from me! It’s not really skimping, but I’ve never paid more than $500 for a fully set up tank (minus lights). Craigslist is a reefer’s best friend! You can also buy smaller frags for cheaper then grow them out yourself but I wouldn’t really call that skimping either, more like electing to have patience. The major thing for me is water testing, I don’t really test my water I just look at how everything’s doing and base it off that, I save a lot of reagents!

Totally agree on this! I bought MH 4 foot Hamilton sun lamp with 4 T5 for 150$ that’s a 800$ unit it had one new ballast and the other was 2 years old, running great along side of my 4 Kwssil lamps. Also bought all the live rock, fish, and coral from a guy that was moving for 400$ bucks, he gave me a 2 little fishies 550 reactor and a protein skimmer for free. You can’t beat Craig’s list. I’m currently in negotiations with a gentleman selling a 400 gallon tank, I’m looking at picking up his huge calcium reactor as well as many other items that are in great shape.

 

[2BIGTANKS]

Skimp on corals and just have a tank full of GSP and mushrooms/zoas

Simple can be beautiful

 

[Tankkeepers]

Iv always wondered what a tank full of nothing but gsp or antherlia or pulsing xeina would look like

 

[Tankkeepers]

Iv got to be one of tje only people I know who can not keep gsp alive

 

[Subsea]

Iv always wondered what a tank full of nothing but gsp or antherlia or pulsing xeina would look like

I have had both Pom Pom Xenia & GSP cover the back of 75G & 120Gtanks. On this this picture, I thinned out a lot from on top of artificial Tonga Tree that had cantilevered out.