What did I do wrong.

[cbcigar]

Hi everyone, back in June i posted some trouble i had been having with my fish continuously dieing. After some discussion the consensus was that I had a bad Ich outbreak. Under advice i did the following,

Let display tank follow for 10 weeks. No fish. Had temp up to 80 degrees. I purchased some supplies, setup a QT tank and QT'd 4 fish. Durring this 10week period. All did great.

After 10 weeks I added 1 fish a pseudo chromis to the display tank and waited an additional 4 weeks. With no sign of laboring breathing, lack of appetite or visible concerns i added the remaining fish. 2 clowns, and a small foxface. After a week I am seeing some concerning behavior. Espically the fox face. I'm seeing some twitching and busy swiming from it. Its also swiming in in the powerhead current a lot. Several fish also seem to be breathing heavier then normal. No loss of appetite or visual issues as of yet but these behaviors are all reminiscent of what I was dealing with months ago. The more I trying to get to the bottom of this, and the short time the fish are starting to turn, I feel its a velvet problem.

This tank has been up for a year. It was never drained.

Salinity 1.025
PH 8.0
Temp 77
Nitrate 10ppm

No ammonia or nitrite.

Fish are fed spectrum pellets, Norie..

 

[Sharkbait19]

What was your full qt process? Did anything get added to the tank during fallow (inverts, rock, etc.)?
Do you have pictures/videos of the fish?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone, back in June i posted some trouble i had been having with my fish continuously dieing. After some discussion the consensus was that I had a bad Ich outbreak. Under advice i did the following,

Let display tank follow for 10 weeks. No fish. Had temp up to 80 degrees. I purchased some supplies, setup a QT tank and QT'd 4 fish. Durring this 10week period. All did great.

After 10 weeks I added 1 fish a pseudo chromis to the display tank and waited an additional 4 weeks. With no sign of laboring breathing, lack of appetite or visible concerns i added the remaining fish. 2 clowns, and a small foxface. After a week I am seeing some concerning behavior. Espically the fox face. I'm seeing some twitching and busy swiming from it. Its also swiming in in the powerhead current a lot. Several fish also seem to be breathing heavier then normal. No loss of appetite or visual issues as of yet but these behaviors are all reminiscent of what I was dealing with months ago. The more I trying to get to the bottom of this, and the short time the fish are starting to turn, I feel its a velvet problem.

This tank has been up for a year. It was never drained.

Salinity 1.025
PH 8.0
Temp 77
Nitrate 10ppm

No ammonia or nitrite.

Fish are fed spectrum pellets, Norie..

Are you quarantining these fish , which is highly suggested.? Especially after a previous outbreak, you want to make this a must do step as you have risked reintroducing parasites back into the tank.
My suggestion and I know this sounds like a pain . . . . . . . place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) and monitor copper with Hanna Brand copper test kit. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank again will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[cbcigar]

Hi everyone, back in June i posted some trouble i had been having with my fish continuously dieing. After some discussion the consensus was that I had a bad Ich outbreak. Under advice i did the following,

Let display tank follow for 10 weeks. No fish. Had temp up to 80 degrees. I purchased some supplies, setup a QT tank and QT'd 4 fish. Durring this 10week period. All did great.

After 10 weeks I added 1 fish a pseudo chromis to the display tank and waited an additional 4 weeks. With no sign of laboring breathing, lack of appetite or visible concerns i added the remaining fish. 2 clowns, and a small foxface. After a week I am seeing some concerning behavior. Espically the fox face. I'm seeing some twitching and busy swiming from it. Its also swiming in in the powerhead current a lot. Several fish also seem to be breathing heavier then normal. No loss of appetite or visual issues as of yet but these behaviors are all reminiscent of what I was dealing with months ago. The more I trying to get to the bottom of this, and the short time the fish are starting to turn, I feel its a velvet problem.

This tank has been up for a year. It was never drained.

Salinity 1.025
PH 8.0
Temp 77
Nitrate 10ppm

No ammonia or nitrite.

Fish are fed spectrum pellets, Norie..

Are you quarantining these fish , which is highly suggested.? Especially after a previous outbreak, you want to make this a must do step as you have risked reintroducing parasites back into the tank.
My suggestion and I know this sounds like a pain . . . . . . . place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) and monitor copper with Hanna Brand copper test kit. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank again will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

1 fish quarrantined for 10 weeks, three others 14 weeks. You're right. Sounds like a big pain. Very frustrating.

 

[cbcigar]

What was your full qt process? Did anything get added to the tank during fallow (inverts, rock, etc.)?
Do you have pictures/videos of the fish?

I can get some video of them. Nothing added to the tank durring fallow. Fish quarantined in qt tank all together. No substrate pvc hides. Water changes every other week. No medication. Just observation.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can get some video of them. Nothing added to the tank durring fallow. Fish quarantined in qt tank all together. No substrate pvc hides. Water changes every other week. No medication. Just observation.

That’s key to the issue. With so many diseases in dealer’s aquariums, you cannot safely use an observational quarantine, you need to proactively treat the fish for the most common diseases. This post explains this:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[robanister]

Did you get all your fish from the same source. If so maybe stop buying there. My lfs had the same issue. Every fish I got there died. They never shutdown and fully clean the systems in the year I have been watching. Last fish I got was 3 antheas. Looked good on outside but presented within 12 hrs in qt with uremia which has no fallow period. Just be careful. Personally I would shut it down and start over. Qt everything going forward. Humble fish says use metro every other day for 14 days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Did you get all your fish from the same source. If so maybe stop buying there. My lfs had the same issue. Every fish I got there died. They never shutdown and fully clean the systems in the year I have been watching. Last fish I got was 3 antheas. Looked good on outside but presented within 12 hrs in qt with uremia which has no fallow period. Just be careful. Personally I would shut it down and start over. Qt everything going forward. Humble fish says use metro every other day for 14 days.

Uronema is picked up by the fish as they travel through the supply chain, nobody knows exactly how. The organism itself is found in about 75% of established tanks, but doesn’t cause disease later on.

However, metronidazole in the water doesn’t cure internal Uronema. Oral metro can be used if you dose it correctly (1% by weight in the food) but the fish still need to be feeding.

Here is my article on Uronema:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[robanister]

Uronema is picked up by the fish as they travel through the supply chain, nobody knows exactly how. The organism itself is found in about 75% of established tanks, but doesn’t cause disease later on.

However, metronidazole in the water doesn’t cure internal Uronema. Oral metro can be used if you dose it correctly (1% by weight in the food) but the fish still need to be feeding.

Here is my article on Uronema:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay I appreciate your article. Vibrio presenting under scales huh? I just treated a fish and would like to talk about this more .

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay I appreciate your article. Vibrio presenting under scales huh? I just treated a fish and would like to talk about this more .

The Vibrio seems to be secondary to the Uronema, but it is complicated; Uronema is known to feed on bacteria, so it might be a “which came first, the chicken or the egg” scenario.

 

[robanister]

The uronema definitely presented first. But clean tank s

o where did the vibrio appear from. skin scrap pictured

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The uronema definitely presented first. But clean tank s

o where did the vibrio appear from. skin scrap pictured

Sorry - I'm not sure what those photos represent. What was the magnification? Did you stain for bacteria? Uronema is most easily identified in video of wet mounts, due to their characteristic motion, but I don't see any in the photos either.

Vibrio is present in all aquariums, but some species are more pathogenic than others. You would need to stain for gram negative bacteria and look for curved rods under high magnification.

Here is an example of what it looks like as a prepared slide: