For those of you experienced in fish diseases, can you id? I know the pics are bad. My phone camera is not very good. It almost looks like the fish's skin is flaking up by the head.
What does this look like?
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HotRocks
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Would It be possible to get better pictures. Is fish in medication? Looks like possible Ich, HLLE? What other fish is it housed with. Pictures hard to see but fish looks beat up.
OP
OP
Sorry about the quality of photos. I wish I had a better camera. They were the best pics out of about 30 pictures taken. Unfortunately, zooming in for close up further distorts the pictures. The fish is in the 180 gal DT with many other fish. No fish in the DT pick on the Hippo. I started Ruby Reef Kick Ick and Rally 3 days ago even though I know the odds of this treatment combo working is quite slim if the tank has ick or velvet. I am hoping if the problem is bacterial or fungal, the Rally will help.
Before going into the DT, the fish was in quarantine and treated with PraziPro and food meds for internal parasites. This fish did not go through a copper treatment but was watched closely in quarantine for about 3-4 weeks. It showed no signs of illness before going into the DT, which leads me to suspect there was a hidden problem in the DT. Many of the fish in the DT are itching now, though they have no visible symptoms other than itching.
I have been reading Humblefish's directions on the tank transfer method, but I have so many fish, I'm not sure how I could accomplish the feat. And then there is the issue of correct id. If the problem is velvet, the TT method is not the best treatment, so I might be wasting valuable time doing tank transfers. That's why a correct id of the problem is so important.
Before going into the DT, the fish was in quarantine and treated with PraziPro and food meds for internal parasites. This fish did not go through a copper treatment but was watched closely in quarantine for about 3-4 weeks. It showed no signs of illness before going into the DT, which leads me to suspect there was a hidden problem in the DT. Many of the fish in the DT are itching now, though they have no visible symptoms other than itching.
I have been reading Humblefish's directions on the tank transfer method, but I have so many fish, I'm not sure how I could accomplish the feat. And then there is the issue of correct id. If the problem is velvet, the TT method is not the best treatment, so I might be wasting valuable time doing tank transfers. That's why a correct id of the problem is so important.
Big G
captain dunsel
Without better pictures we are just suggesting here. But based on your comment of the skin "flaking off" I'm leaning Brooklynella. Take a look at it in this very nice thread by Meredith: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index-pictorial-guide.285708/#post-3473098
Here's Humblefish's treatment for Brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287
Here's Humblefish's treatment for Brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287
Fishfinder
2500 Club Member
That fish has a nasty bacterial infection, and hasn't eaten in a long time. How long did it take for him to get like that?
OP
OP
I did come across Meredith's post when I first started researching, but at the time the white spots looked more like flukes turned white from the freshwater dip. I think you're right though. It looks most like Brook based on Meredith's photos. Thank you for your help! Now I need to figure out what to do next.
OP
OP
I also think bacterial infection has set in. I just transferred him to the DT about 10 days ago. The symptoms started about 3 or 4 days after putting it in the DT. Whatever it is, it seems to be progressing quickly the last few days. The fish is very small and came in from Live Aquaria on the thin side, but it looked healthy other than being thin. It has been picking at flakes and mysis a little each day, so it has not totally stopped eating yet.
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Big G
captain dunsel
Sorry to hear of your tank/fish problems Brook is a nasty killer. Tank needs to go fallow for 6 weeks. Here's Humblefish's treatment for Brook & Bacterial Infection. And here's the entire thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-bacterial-infection-predicament.310311/#post-3816129
What to do for Brook & Uronema + Bacterial Infection -
What to do for Brook & Uronema + Bacterial Infection -
- Give the fish a 5 minute freshwater dip (optional).
- Followed by either a 45 minute formalin bath or 90 minute acriflavine bath in saltwater (highly recommended).
- Place the fish in QT, and treat with this combination of meds for 10-14 days: Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex. Since uronema can also infect a fish internally, fish food should be laced with metronidazole for 10-14 days as well. Use Seachem Focus to bind the medication to the food, to prevent it from just leaching out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metronidazole.298762/#post-3655831
OP
OP
Thank you for your response, BigG. This fish went through a 5 min. freshwater dip and 12 days of
with FOCUS in the food. Should I repeat these steps again or just do the 45 minute formalin bath or 90 minute acriflavine bath at this point? What about the other fish in the tank? Should they be dipped too even though there are no visible signs of disease...only itching? Thanks for your help!
OP
OP
Hum, according to Humblefish's information on treating Brook, Rally has Acriflavine, one of the meds he says can be effective on Brook. I wonder if I continue to treat with the Ruby Reef products in the display and try to catch the fish to do additional dips if this will get rid of Brook? Will this work do you think?
HotRocks
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Like @Big G brook also came to mind (Just so hard to tell from the pics). He is always a huge help posting info. Better pics would definitely be helpful in an exact diagnosis. I can also tell you, the last 4 orders that I got from LA all had signs of either ich or velvet. Velvet is becoming so common these days I wouldn't rule it out.
HotRocks
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I want to make sure something is clarified. Metroplex+focus mixed in food treats internal parasites. Metroplex+kanaplex+Furan-2 (triple threat, trifecta, magic trio, and many other names used for the wonderful combination of meds for treatment) Dosed into the water column treats for Almost any type of bacterial infection.
Big G
captain dunsel
You mentioned that you already have used Ruby Reef Rally; I'd switch to the Formalin bath at this point. Formalin MS has a much higher dose of formaldehyde than Ruby Reef Rally. All of the fish have been exposed and should be considered carriers of the disease. Here's Humblefish's treatment with Formalin. Note the cautions underlined and bolded:
Formalin: Treats Brooklynella and provides temporary relief for Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium). Also may be used as temporary relief, or even as an alternative treatment, for worms such as flukes and black ich.
How To Treat - Formalin is very interesting because its potential is not fully known. It is best administered in a bath solution for 30-45 minutes, following the dosage instructions on whatever bottle you use; or at 150 ppm if using "100% formalin" (ex. Formalin-MS). The bath should be done in a large glass bowl or container, and temperature should match the tank the fish is coming from. A bucket is not advised as plastic may absorb some of the medication and then leach it back out during future use. It is imperative that you heavily aerate the bath solution for at least 30 minutes before and also during treatment to compensate for oxygen depletion. The fish should be placed in a premixed bath solution. DO NOT add more formalin after the fish is already in the bath.
For Brooklynella, multiple baths may be required (so long as symptoms persist), but it’s important to give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths. Formalin has also been used as alternative treatment for external worms such as flukes and black ich. However, at least 2 baths are required (7 days apart) for the same reason described when using Prazipro. For all of the above, post treatment, the fish should not be returned to the same tank/water he came from to prevent reinfection.
You can dose formalin directly in a quarantine tank, but this can be risky due to the harshness of formalin and how quickly it can deplete the water of oxygen. Providing additional gas exchange to the QT is a must! A fish being treated must be monitored closely and should be removed if showing signs of distress - this applies when treating in QT or in the bath solution.
Pros - Treats or provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases. In some cases, formalin can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.
Cons/Side Effects - Formalin contains formaldehyde, a known carcinogen. Therefore, precautions must be taken when using it. Preventing your skin from coming in contact with it by wearing water proof gloves and not breathing in any fumes by wearing a face mask is highly recommended. Formalin also can be harsh on the fish and will quickly deplete oxygen from the water. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited.
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Big G
captain dunsel
Might be time to consider a different antibiotic routine since you have already dosed for 12 days of the trifecta. Consider these options Humblefish posted:
Examples of this include Furan-2, Kanamycin aka Seachem Kanaplex, Nitrofuracin Green Powder, Triple Sulfa Powder (Sulfaplex) or a combination of using both Erythromycin & Minocycline. The latter can be accomplished (albeit expensively) by using freshwater Maracyn 1 & 2 and then doubling the dosage for saltwater use. *** Big fan of NFG powder for treating a QT. ***
OP
OP
I did not treat the water with the "magic trio" as most of my tanks at the time were also running CopperPower. I guess I could do that now, but it would mean removing all my substrate, rock, decorations, etc., so I can treat the whole tank. It's just not possible to house all the fish in the 180 gallon tank in separate sick tanks for treatment at this point. Thank you for your advice. I have a lot to think about now.
OP
OP
I have not ruled velvet out completely. I just figured when the fish did not die within a few days of showing symptoms that it might be something else. There are so many fish diseases that look similar to me. I can't tell them apart being relatively new in the hobby. My first few years in the hobby, I never encountered any fish diseases. I guess I was lucky.
BTW: The fish did eat tonight, which means there is still a chance of saving it...I hope.
OP
OP
Humblefish, I didn't see anything large, but a few really tiny floating specks. I know some parasites cannot be seen with the naked eyes well, and my eyes are not the best anymore. Still, I guess I would have to answer...I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think so.
OP
OP
Better pics up. Finally caught the tang: It's in Formalin dip right now. Hopefully someone has seen this before and can offer an accurate id of disease. It almost looks like cotton now. Is it a fungus? Tang did not eat this morning.
EmdeReef
2500 Club Member
It's really hard to tell from the blurry pics. Have you compared vs. pics of lympho now that you mention it looks like cotton? Bacterial and fungal infections can cause similar growths as well.
If it's bacterial or fungal I don't think formalin is the way to go.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/
If it's bacterial or fungal I don't think formalin is the way to go.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/
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