What makes the Radion "the best"?

[dburt520]

I don't want this to turn into a this is better than this thread... I am simply asking these questions based on other LED reccomendation threads.

I am in the process of building a 225G tank and am contemplating a DIY led setup, so I started looking at LEDs and what people like and don't like about them and why. I think the consensus is that the Kessil or the Radion are "the best", but I am have not really come across a conclusive why.

1. Is it the software?
2. Is it the spread?
3. Is it because someone paid 800$ for a light so they are convincing themselves they are the best (kind of joking, but serious at the same time)

I believe I can purchase the LEDs, power supply, heatsink and everything else needed to recreate the radion using cree leds for probably 1/4 of the price, however maybe the software is what makes them great?

Thanks
Dave

 

[txreefer]

Opinion.

There is no best they all produce energy. Pick the one that you like with the features you need.

 

[Bronx19]

The lenses are a good idea, but apart from that, marketing.

 

[dacianb]

Dave,

I had same dilemma years ago and ended up on DIY lights. I work in LED lighting industry as designer since 20 years and I am looking on all lights and marketing "stories" behind them with different eyes; i dont plan here to write pages of whats and hows, but think like that:
today's trend in LED lighting is to offer 5 years warranty to even domestic products and up to 10 years full warranty for industrial lights (in this time max 10% degradation is allowed). So without going through all technical NO NOs on most of reef lights just ask why a manufacturer of "best light on market" dont trust his own product in order to give you such a warranty?

Sadly, in our world marketing and not tech specs makes a product "best".
You wonder about software... if a fancy app is the wow factor you are looking for, then is what you need; But an Arduino can do the same if you sweat a bit next to it . This is your choice;

I made few DIY lights for my tanks over years - bellow is the picture of my last one. Honestly, would never trade them for any commercial "best" lights. I dont know how skilled you are, but you may end up having better lights on your own. Reverse is also available... may fail and loose money if you dont know what are you doing

 

[Macdaddynick1]

All I’m going to say is that i jumped on the hype train, and got myself 2 gen 4 pros to replace my photon 32 first gen because I’ve had SLIGH shadowing with that fixture. Otherwise, the color, the growth and the light blend was amazing. Most of all the tank was a pleasure to look at. The downside of this fixture is that it did not have a UV spectrum. Yesterday i finally switched over. Once i installed the radions i got twice as much shadowing. They keep on screaming how great the spread is (which is true), but no one says a word about how bad these lights are when it comes to shadowing. May be these lights are great for coral farms when the light is like 6 feet above the tank but for a densely packed reef these lights are less than ideal. In hignsight, I’m just now realizing how terrible the puck design is, now i am looking into adding two more t5s or switching to atlantic v4.

 

[dburt520]

Thanks for the replies. Apparanrly one person missed the intent of this post, but the others nailed it.

I think I will start planning a diy fixture and report back when it's done.

Thanks
Dave

 

[10Seconds]

The lenses are a good idea, but apart from that, marketing.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. I think testing has showed its not the best light or even the best LED, but it sure has the hype to go with it and also the fact that its priced high makes people feel like it must be good because its so expensive.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Radions are for the non-diy guys. I’m one of them. I just like to plug and play, done. Ecotech has a pretty good interface for the lights with their link system. I just set my 100% on AB growth for like 10 hours and done. Corals are doing good. I am supplementing with t5’s for sps but that’s just personal preference.
Some guys have had great success with others but not sure on overall controllability.

 

[Big E]

Dave,

I had same dilemma years ago and ended up on DIY lights. I work in LED lighting industry as designer since 20 years and I am looking on all lights and marketing "stories" behind them with different eyes; i dont plan here to write pages of whats and hows, but think like that:
today's trend in LED lighting is to offer 5 years warranty to even domestic products and up to 10 years full warranty for industrial lights (in this time max 10% degradation is allowed). So without going through all technical NO NOs on most of reef lights just ask why a manufacturer of "best light on market" dont trust his own product in order to give you such a warranty?

Sadly, in our world marketing and not tech specs makes a product "best".
You wonder about software... if a fancy app is the wow factor you are looking for, then is what you need; But an Arduino can do the same if you sweat a bit next to it . This is your choice;

I made few DIY lights for my tanks over years - bellow is the picture of my last one. Honestly, would never trade them for any commercial "best" lights. I dont know how skilled you are, but you may end up having better lights on your own. Reverse is also available... may fail and loose money if you dont know what are you doing

Hi,

I was wondering how the degradation factor is being measured by these companies that offer the standard long term warranties?

I've seen some independent measurements of par loss over 3 years on the "famous" Radions. I'm going to assume it will be similar with other brands in the environment we use them in. People switch/upgrade so often there's little data concerning this.

I've read experiences with singular diodes going out on LEDs over time as well across several different brands.

I haven't seen any data for spectrum degradation which is even more important than par.

Any insight/thoughts you can share on this?

 

[mfinn]

I don't want this to turn into a this is better than this thread... I am simply asking these questions based on other LED reccomendation threads.

I am in the process of building a 225G tank and am contemplating a DIY led setup, so I started looking at LEDs and what people like and don't like about them and why. I think the consensus is that the Kessil or the Radion are "the best", but I am have not really come across a conclusive why.

1. Is it the software?

For me it was the software.
I tried a another brand ( cheaper) with no software, just dials and I've tried diy leds. Neither worked for me.

 

[hart24601]

I would say number 3. I mean they are good lights and perform, but other lights had wireless and software just as good like AI (per merger) and a handful of others did too. Ecotech keep making radions better, but I feel the atlantic v4 are the current best by a good distance as backed by the BRS test.

 

[dacianb]

Hi,

I was wondering how the degradation factor is being measured by these companies that offer the standard long term warranties?

I've seen some independent measurements of par loss over 3 years on the "famous" Radions. I'm going to assume it will be similar with other brands in the environment we use them in. People switch/upgrade so often there's little data concerning this.

I've read experiences with singular diodes going out on LEDs over time as well across several different brands.

I haven't seen any data for spectrum degradation which is even more important than par.

Any insight/thoughts you can share on this?

It is quite a science behind those calculations. On short, measure your light on day 1 (output + color) then keep it for a while ON in worst case possible (highest output, high end temperature, etc) and remeasure everything after some weeks (6 or more). In those 6 weeks should see a small degradation already. This is enough to extrapolate a curve to tell you how leds will degrade in years;
Some basic info from Osram: https://www.osram-os.com/Graphics/XPic5/00165201_0.pdf/Reliability and Lifetime of LEDs.pdf
Similar, but coming from Lumiled: https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/167/WP15-pdf
And those are only on LED side - have to continue further with electronics, casing, mounting and active parts (fans) with a similar experiment way, but normally called "accelerated life test"

I am preparing a full article on my blog (but of course will not the link here as I am not kind of sponsor).

No, saltwater tanks are not the worst environments a light is mounted usually - comparing with a street light next to a beach (salt, UVs, freeze, hot sun heat, etc).
Also, different LED manufacturers provide different lifetime of LEDs even in low currents / low heat conditions, this is also a major factor - and NO, not all LEDs have 50 000 hours lifetime; Some on market have less than 10 000, others exceed 150 000 hours;
For spectrum degradation, there are not so good brands out there which use cheap components that will deteriorate rather fast (small dome on leds, chemicals on chip, etc) and this will alter a lot the spectral output; On other side, there are good LED brands, much more stable in time, but if your fixture running the LEDs too hot for a long period of time will see the chemicals on chip being altered, resulting in a color degradation;
When in a fixture a LED chip fails is normally a major design issue of the fixture and not really related to led (if is a decent quality led)

 

[Big E]

And those are only on LED side - have to continue further with electronics, casing, mounting and active parts (fans) with a similar experiment way, but normally called "accelerated life test"

Yes, thanks, that's the important info that needs to be tested with these units.

 

[Big E]

All I’m going to say is that i jumped on the hype train, and got myself 2 gen 4 pros to replace my photon 32 first gen because I’ve had SLIGH shadowing with that fixture. Otherwise, the color, the growth and the light blend was amazing. Most of all the tank was a pleasure to look at. The downside of this fixture is that it did not have a UV spectrum. Yesterday i finally switched over. Once i installed the radions i got twice as much shadowing. They keep on screaming how great the spread is (which is true), but no one says a word about how bad these lights are when it comes to shadowing. May be these lights are great for coral farms when the light is like 6 feet above the tank but for a densely packed reef these lights are less than ideal. In hignsight, I’m just now realizing how terrible the puck design is, now i am looking into adding two more t5s or switching to atlantic v4.

Why not look into the Photon V2s?............ they have the violets in there now, you have been happy with the performance in the past. Six channel control is nice as well.