What would you debunk/prove?

[hart24601]

That'd be interesting! Is it just wavelength spectrum? If so, you'd have to figure out how to keep intensity out of the equation, since a weak LED light wouldn't be able to compare with a strong MH light....

Yeah would need to adjust the lamp height on all so the coral was in the same PAR, but shouldn’t be that bad. It would be nice to see not only differences between the types but even in the same technology aka 6.5k vs 12k vs 20k MH at the same PAR levels.

 

[CindyKz]

That prophylactic meds in quarantine have better outcomes than just observational quarantine, when used by the average reefer in a home setting.

 

[ichthyogeek]

That prophylactic meds in quarantine have better outcomes than just observational quarantine, when used by the average reefer in a home setting.

Oooh that would be a massive experiment, unless you had access to a wholesaler....and even then it'd be hard

 

[vlangel]

That DSBs (deep sandbeds) are dangerous for the long term and will turn toxic and poison your tank, rather than lower nitrates by denitrification.

 

[brandon429]

Ichthyo these were my debunk goals, 90% still need bunking

Article gold data: things that have not been measured regarding bacteria in reefing

So each day on every forum on the web there are questions about bacteria and what they require, don't require, tolerate and will not tolerate. And 99% of the answers are unmeasured, they're recirculated info for decades regarding marine cycle/filtration aerobes and they're not measured using...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

VL

i know DSB is hot topic. It’s easy to debunk though, set up a sandbed work thread where you move homes, upgrade, downgrade, fix cyano, and work with public beds for ten pages you’ll see toxicity

we can’t just go off our own beds, has to be the public’s beds. If you aren’t minding toxicity you’ll have ten dead reefs, fast. This one will be free to prove, so many have sandbeds and want the help, willing to do whatever you ask so their reef will live. They’ll give constant updates of outcomes and if you get to page ten with no deaths then you’ve discovered toxicity or not in the common reef dsb

 

[vlangel]

VL

i know DSB is hot topic. It’s easy to debunk though, set up a sandbed work thread where you move homes, upgrade, downgrade, fix cyano, and work with public beds for ten pages you’ll see toxicity

we can’t just go off our own beds, has to be the public’s beds. If you aren’t minding toxicity you’ll have ten dead reefs, fast. This one will be free to prove, so many have sandbeds and want the help, willing to do whatever you ask so their reef will live. They’ll give constant updates of outcomes and if you get to page ten with no deaths then you’ve discovered toxicity or not in the common reef dsb

Good point Brandon. Although I am not just going off of experiences with my own tanks of which I have never had one go toxic. I also maintenanced tanks for a LFS and I never witnessed any of those go toxic either. Most of them were big tanks built around the year 2000 and although I do not maintain those tanks anymore I am friends with the owners of them. I have yet to hear of any of them crashing and one of those tanks belongs to a good friend of mine. It's a 220 gallon Fowler with now enormous predator fish like puffers, large Angel's and big tangs. It is fed huge amounts of food. The fish in that tank are all over a decade old and the sandbed is the original and has never been siphoned or cleaned in anyway. It does get monthly water changes however.

So, I am not saying that DSBs never go toxic but I am saying that it is possible to keep one if poperly set up and enjoy it for years without an issue.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed, the public is going to have to build and run them differently in order to be safe. Set as-is, it takes a forty page sand works thread to keep from killing tanks, the beds must be cleaned in order to stay alive. If any person makes a sand works thread and isn’t rinsing out the waste every time, total losses by just a few pages. Sitting in a home undisturbed is how many get away with it, but with one rock slide, or time to change tanks, that’s the real line of division for sure


its easy to make a thread for moving homes, that’s popular and always has entrants. After we relocate just ten tanks without rinsing hidden details will become clear, the key is getting live time feedback logged right after move/setup

the detritus is the risk not the sand itself

 

[CindyKz]

Oooh that would be a massive experiment, unless you had access to a wholesaler....and even then it'd be hard

To do an actual experiment, with controls and such, would be pretty tough.

But to survey reefers about their experiences wouldn't be hard, and it would be more applicable to the home setting anyway. In an experimental study you'd be using (presumably) experienced reefers with access to whatever equipment they need. The results wouldn't be as generalizable because most of us at home are not in that situation.

I designed a survey and posted it here some time ago, but didn't get enough responses to be meaningful. (At least I don't think, research is not my strength).

 

[terraincognita]

I would like to see the impact of spectrum on a large group of the same corals frags at the same par with led, mh, and t5. Then compare the color and growth after 6 months.

BRS Investigates did a few lighting investigations and between all of them you can find out this information I'm pretty sure.

While T5's were the cheapest and most even spread, LED always won out over T5 for usability and control also being able to reach par levels and spectrums T5's couldn't (and Metal Halides.) (Not that T5 and MH don't work they work just fine for reefing) but it's like having a LS3 V8 Engine vs your regular V6 IMO. both will get you there, and we all know speeding really only ever saves you 1-2 minutes.

 

[terraincognita]

Ichthyo these were my debunk goals, 90% still need bunking

Article gold data: things that have not been measured regarding bacteria in reefing

So each day on every forum on the web there are questions about bacteria and what they require, don't require, tolerate and will not tolerate. And 99% of the answers are unmeasured, they're recirculated info for decades regarding marine cycle/filtration aerobes and they're not measured using...

www.reef2reef.com

One thing on this too, (just side not not really amazing) but I read from a Dr. In a forum once that he found 75% of Nitrifying bacteria from a freshwater tank was able to make it through a conversion of Fresh to Saltwater.

 

[brandon429]

I have been wondering a very long time how tetra cycling bac says both fw and sw on the bottle, and it does work on both from one inoc source, that ties in nicely

 

[shred5]

Allelopathy and how it affects corals and algae.
Also if carbon could possibly remove these chemicals.

 

[shred5]

Popping bubble algae in the tank spreads them. Never had an issue doing that. Plus don’t emerald crabs chew them up? They don’t eat them whole in your tank!

There are people who believe that emeralds and possibly urchins actually spread bubble algae.

 

[brandon429]

If I could narrow down my list to one bit of info this hobby nor google scholar nor any posting sage nor any university has on file:

length of time to complete an unassisted marine cycle

anyone who had aquariums from the 70s or 80s onward knows bottle bac haven't always been around we used to have to slog it out with a wait


and no, we weren't told we had to feed the bac by the salesperson at the lfs, it was add water to your lame plastic display tank, simply wait 30 days, come back, and Ill sell you some platies and swords.

If you cheated and went to another store and bought fish anyway (guilty) and added them, they all died overnite or within two hours of adding lol.

But if you listened to lfs person, in 30 days the system amazingly self cycled and this was every freshwater tank I'd ever heard about until HT planted systems became more popular/living scapes vs plastic ones

Unassisted freshwater cycling/well known, there are charts galore


but unassisted marine systems, inoculated from West Texas contaminations and aerial floc dirt vectors? show me the data.

That means any person reading can set up a bucket, put dry reef rocks in it, set it to .023 and heat it to tank temps 78 and circulate it, add nothing, let nature take course, and we see how long it takes to be able to simply move dosed free ammonia down from a setpoint.


no data exists I predict regarding how long unassisted marine cycles take, and if they vary region to region (freshwater cycling charts don't vary anywhere on earth, look one up, they're all 30-40 day charts/10 for ammonia~22 for inherent nitrite control)

there isnt even any data to state whether it cannot even work for marine setups thats amazing. scientists can tell you the specific clade and genetics of your bacteria but we cannot truly know if caribsea wet pack sand is actually live and we dont get to know about unassisted natural cycles. the basics, uncharted.

 

[vlangel]

I have been wondering a very long time how tetra cycling bac says both fw and sw on the bottle, and it does work on both from one inoc source, that ties in nicely

I have also wondered that. I did not know that FW bacteria could be converted to SW and that is interesting. See, I guess an old dog can still learn, ha ha!

 

[hart24601]

BRS Investigates did a few lighting investigations and between all of them you can find out this information I'm pretty sure.

While T5's were the cheapest and most even spread, LED always won out over T5 for usability and control also being able to reach par levels and spectrums T5's couldn't (and Metal Halides.) (Not that T5 and MH don't work they work just fine for reefing) but it's like having a LS3 V8 Engine vs your regular V6 IMO. both will get you there, and we all know speeding really only ever saves you 1-2 minutes.

Oh I have watched most the BRS series and have tired to get Ryan to do this test but I haven’t convinced him yet. He even gave me a shout out one of the videos for keeping on him about it, haha. My ask is more about spectrum, not technology type, but if doing one big experiment why not make it better and add it being a limitless wishlist of what we would like to see! Besides for me personally the question of technology isn’t important as Adam from battlecorals Said running MH, T5, and led he can’t tell a difference in growth or coloration and they are all on linked systems - good enough for me, but spectrum remains one thing I have never seen tested and is still hotly debated.

 

[Glass Algae]

I can say that I failed royaly staying under my budget. That's probably due to poor planning though. I would be curious to see how others faired.

Same here I went way over budget, but when asked if I could do it for cheaper I say hell yeah. I was new and rushing

 

[ichthyogeek]

Allelopathy and how it affects corals and algae.
Also if carbon could possibly remove these chemicals.

That would be interesting! Especially in conjunction with evaluating priority effects. I'm not really sure how one could do that in a hobbyist setting, but it would be cool if a lab with access to the necessary equipment could do so!

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I wouldn't do marine aquarium hobby research for any amount of money. Many of the contentious topics in the hobby are not actually a data problem, people just don't believe them because they don't want to. Once you are convinced of something it's very difficult to change that belief. Our cognitive biases make us more readily accept information that confirms our biases than information that does not. Some people are worse at this than others, but every person has at least some built-in resistance to new information that challenges what they believe.

I would have an incredibly empty and hollow feeling knowing I was doing research that people dismiss simply because they don't want to believe it.