What's your view on Live Rock in 2022? What's changed or hasn't changed?

[tharbin]

It is interesting that this poll came up today. This morning my wife and I were discussing the tank and we agreed that I should dump the CaribSea Life Rock (manufactured rock) in the garbage and get some live rock or at least a few seed rocks from other tanks along with something a little more porous, maybe Marco not sure until I look at it.

I am actually amazed at the number of supposed 'reef' tanks that have nothing but some dry rock in some unnatural configuration with a ton of coral and a few token herbivores of various genre. To me that has nothing in common with the reef. It is a coral farm. Where are the sponges, tunicates, bivalves, polychaetes, macro algae? What makes the reef so unique is the diversity of life.

When I started in the hobby I used coral skeletons. When live rock became available in the 80s it changed everything. Last August I decided to reenter the hobby after a prolonged absence and tried to do a 'budget' build for a little AIO in our living room with manufactured rock. Never again.

 

[scardall]

Todays definition of live rock is subjective. In the old days Live rock had inverts and coral growing on them. Sometime after rock with coraline or just rock with bacteria in them is called live rock. IMO latter is not really true live rock.

 

[Dakota_reef]

I'm of the opinion that LR is best for new tanks, but that option is very rare these days.

I'm currently "making" Live Rock by cycling about 30-40 lbs in an extra aquarium for use in my soon-to-be-filled 150g. I've seeded with sand from a 16 year old tank. I'm also dosing bacteria just to be sure I have a variety in case my current tank isn't diverse enough.

 

[Dakota_reef]

I’ve only ever used dry rock. I don’t like the potentially negative hitchhikers that could come. Like to have as clean of a tank as possible, but still things slip through lol.

I can't say I disagree with potential pitfalls of hitchhikers (I've had a mantis shrimp from it) but the biodiversity is insane and as long as things are kept under control, even the bristle worms help keep the sand clean.

 

[glency]

Does the use of Marco and any other prepared rock contribute to the ugly brown algae I see in my 2 month old tank?

 

[damsels are not mean]

You either need to buy or create live rock (through seeding or adding corals and letting things establish) to have a successful tank.

It may be best these days to commit to the insta-tank route and instead of adding dry rock and fish first, just wait on the fish and do corals on day 1. I really think it's the fastest way to establish a tank with no live rock source. The safer and cheaper route might be to seed it with some live rock or rubble, but that takes a while.

 

[reeftwincities]

IMHO taking rocks out of the sea is a critical unnecessary irreversible damage.

This is the hard part for me. I jumped back into the hobby with dry rock, was nearly chased away from the hair algae and have slowly been transitioning to a mix of dry and live rock. (20 lbs from KP), (10 lbs of "Australian" rock from Unique Corals). The "Australian" rock is extremely porous and has nice shapes/made up of old coral skeletons but I have seen little life so far, I imagine from the international shipping. I can see some halimedia and recently bleached out sps. The life on the KP rock is crazy. I truly hope it is sustainably harvested as it is hard to imagine a worse practice related to our hobby that ripping the base of the reef off the sandfloor.

 

[chimbo84]

What are the opinions on seeding bio bricks? I have a 4x8x8 brick marinating in my current tank while I build out my new 120 with dry rock. Thinking I could put the brick in my sump and essentially insta-cycle my new tank.

 

[reef_daddy]

It hasn't changed for me, there is too much of a risk of hitch hikers.

 

[minus9]

I like hitchhikers. I like eco friendly products. I want the most controllable elements when starting a reef.

This is done by Dry Rock. LifeRock to be exact. Hitchhikers though you ask. I will purchase from local reefers who have a well established reef tank. I grab a 1lb of rock rubble from their sump. Sump always seems to be teaming with life and less algae. I take that home, soak it in RO/DI for about 10 minutes scrub the living **** out of it and plop it into the sump after a few weeks of the LifeRock has been in the tank.

Soaking in RO just kills the benefit of purchasing that rock, seems rather pointless, plus hitchhikers survive days in damp conditions, what makes you think 10 minutes of RO will do the trick, other than killing the bacteria you were purchasing it for? Not to be harsh or rude, but you’re better served by using saltwater to scrub it in.

 

[bnord]

like corals, do we need a stricter definition?

Aquacultured Live rock... (ALR) from another established tank or a tub without fish that has incubated with bottled bacterial or media from an established tank (mine is a horse trough with a monster hermit crab that I feed shrimp to)

Maricultured Live Rock (MLR) - Gulf or keys derived and maintained under supervision from a qualified and licensed 3rd party

Manufactured Dry Rock (point of sale) (Just kidding) Dusty out of a box

I have used all three, depending largely on ALR, with MDR for structural support and occasionally MLR for seeding of Coraline, bacteria, small inverts and hopefully no mantids in both my DT and a nano

coincidentally just placed an order for re-seeding MLR - hopefully to be delivered late this week - picked up at the airport for freshness...

 

[ReefGeezer]

You either need to buy or create live rock (through seeding or adding corals and letting things establish) to have a successful tank.

It may be best these days to commit to the insta-tank route and instead of adding dry rock and fish first, just wait on the fish and do corals on day 1. I really think it's the fastest way to establish a tank with no live rock source. The safer and cheaper route might be to seed it with some live rock or rubble, but that takes a while.

"Live RocK" in my mind still means rock that had been in the ocean for an very long time, regardless of it's origin. I want it harvested and flown straight to my door. It is rock that has a diversity of life you can't get any other way. It is even better if it requires some time to prepare before I can put it in a tank. Once prepared, IMHO, this yields the true insta-tank... no cycle required... add fish or corals as you please... without nearly the worry about cyano, algae, and dinos.

 

[damsels are not mean]

"Live RocK" in my mind still means rock that had been in the ocean for an very long time, regardless of it's origin. I want it harvested and flown straight to my door. It is rock that has a diversity of life you can't get any other way. It is even better if it requires some time to prepare before I can put it in a tank. Once prepared, IMHO, this yields the true insta-tank... no cycle required... add fish or corals as you please... without nearly the worry about cyano, algae, and dinos.

I'd rather get rock that is established in a captive system. Less dieoff, no pests, and you know the rock "works". Live rock fresh from the ocean is a bit of a gamble. I wish there were a middleground with aquacultured live rock.

 

[LRT]

It is interesting that this poll came up today. This morning my wife and I were discussing the tank and we agreed that I should dump the CaribSea Life Rock (manufactured rock) in the garbage and get some live rock or at least a few seed rocks from other tanks along with something a little more porous, maybe Marco not sure until I look at it.

I am actually amazed at the number of supposed 'reef' tanks that have nothing but some dry rock in some unnatural configuration with a ton of coral and a few token herbivores of various genre. To me that has nothing in common with the reef. It is a coral farm. Where are the sponges, tunicates, bivalves, polychaetes, macro algae? What makes the reef so unique is the diversity of life.

When I started in the hobby I used coral skeletons. When live rock became available in the 80s it changed everything. Last August I decided to reenter the hobby after a prolonged absence and tried to do a 'budget' build for a little AIO in our living room with manufactured rock. Never again.

My wife is hilarious with our gulf rock. I find her in fish room often after lights out with her little head lamp on checking things out. 3yrs later she's still like a little kid and amazed at all the life on the rock

 

[tharbin]

like corals, do we need a stricter definition?

Aquacultured Live rock... (ALR) from another established tank or a tub without fish that has incubated with bottled bacterial or media from an established tank (mine is a horse trough with a

Maricultured Live Rock (MLR) - Gulf or keys derived and maintained under supervision from a qualified and licensed 3rd party

Manufactured Dry Rock (point of sale) (Just kidding) Dusty out of a box

I have used all three, depending largely on ALR, with MDR for structural support and occasionally MLR for seeding of Coraline, bacteria, small inverts and hopefully no mantids in both my DT and a nano

coincidentally just placed an order for re-seeding MLR - hopefully to be delivered late this week - picked up at the airport for freshness...

I actually started to do a post a month or so ago but never posted it. I do think there are enough differences that we need to differentiate the types better than we do. It kind of follows along the lines of what you are saying so here goes: (BTW I think I like your Aquacultered and Maricultured descriptions better than what I had).

What's in a name?

It seems that discussions about the best rock for saltwater aquariums come up all of the time and to me one of the issues revolves around nomenclature. Today I watched an old BRS video to understand a post a fellow reefer made and Ryan used a term that made my head hurt: 'dry live rock'. I cannot wrap my head around that little paradox. I think it is hard to have discussions about rock when we use names that make no sense or have lost their meaning.

I think that one issue is how we are categorizing 'rock'. In the old days we had coral skeletons, live rock, dry rock and diy rock from various--sometimes reef safe--materials. I don't think those terms are sufficient today as the properties of the various aquascaping rock today encompasses many varieties and sources of 'rock'.

Here is my list of what I think are the current sources of 'traditional' aquascaping rock and what I call them myself (along with a few samples) to keep the nuances in mind for myself.

'Rock' Types:
-Wild Live Rock: don't know of any current sources. Maybe the Australian Live Rock?
-Aquacultered Live Rock: KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay, etc.
-Dried Reef Rock: don't know of any online sources but Wild Live Rock that has been cleaned and dried. Used to be called base rock.
-Cured Reef Rock: reclaimed Wild Live Rock that is currently acting as filtration, usually at an LFS.
-Dry Quarried Rock: MarcoRock, CaribSea Moani, Two Little Fishes Stax, etc.
-Manufactured Rock: Aquaforest AF Rock, CaribSea Life Rock, Cornerstone, etc.

Have I missed any types? Do you have better names? Am I just anal (never mind--I know the answer to that one)?

 

[bnord]

like corals, do we need a stricter definition?

Aquacultured Live rock... (ALR) from another established tank or a tub without fish that has incubated with bottled bacterial or media from an established tank (mine is a horse trough with a monster hermit crab that I feed shrimp to)

Maricultured Live Rock (MLR) - Gulf or keys derived and maintained under supervision from a qualified and licensed 3rd party

Manufactured Dry Rock (point of sale) (Just kidding) Dusty out of a box

I have used all three, depending largely on ALR, with MDR for structural support and occasionally MLR for seeding of Coraline, bacteria, small inverts and hopefully no mantids in both my DT and a nano

coincidentally just placed an order for re-seeding MLR - hopefully to be delivered late this week - picked up at the airport for freshness...

and by the way, the only Cyano I have had has been in a standalone frag tank that did not get any MLR - but will later this week

 

[bnord]

I actually started to do a post a month or so ago but never posted it. I do think there are enough differences that we need to differentiate the types better than we do. It kind of follows along the lines of what you are saying so here goes:

What's in a name?

It seems that discussions about the best rock for saltwater aquariums come up all of the time and to me one of the issues revolves around nomenclature. Today I watched an old BRS video to understand a post a fellow reefer made and Ryan used a term that made my head hurt: 'dry live rock'. I cannot wrap my head around that little paradox. I think it is hard to have discussions about rock when we use names that make no sense or have lost their meaning.

I think that one issue is how we are categorizing 'rock'. In the old days we had coral skeletons, live rock, dry rock and diy rock from various--sometimes reef safe--materials. I don't think those terms are sufficient today as the properties of the various aquascaping rock today encompasses many varieties and sources of 'rock'.

Here is my list of what I think are the current sources of 'traditional' aquascaping rock and what I call them myself (along with a few samples) to keep the nuances in mind for myself.

'Rock' Types:
-Wild Live Rock: don't know of any current sources. Maybe the Australian Live Rock?
-Aquacultered Live Rock: KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay, etc.
-Dried Reef Rock: don't know of any online sources but Wild Live Rock that has been cleaned and dried. Used to be called base rock.
-Cured Reef Rock: reclaimed Wild Live Rock that is currently acting as filtration, usually at an LFS.
-Dry Quarried Rock: MarcoRock, CaribSea Moani, Two Little Fishes Stax, etc.
-Manufactured Rock: Aquaforest AF Rock, CaribSea Life Rock, Cornerstone, etc.

Have I missed any types? Do you have better names? Am I just anal (never mind--I know the answer to that one)?

we are on a similar path, you are more complete and descriptive, and agree it is easy to bracket these rock descriptors and then know how to use them better

 

[Dr. Jim]

I'd give my right thumb if I could buy Totoka Rock again. I'm kicking myself for selling the 600 lbs of this rock (from my 500 gal tank) when I moved. (Photo is from 2010).

Florida/Gulf rock is my second choice now but isn't nearly as nice as any of the "old" Pacific rock. And, I can't help but wonder how much we are missing out by not getting the Pacific bacterial biodiversity.

Wouldn't dream of using artificial rock. Quarantine and deal with the hitch-hikers. Be sure to get rid of the aiptasia; and, if KP rock, the Fire Worms. (I wrote in another thread about how I found ivermectin to work well to get rid of the Fire Worms).

 

[ReefGeezer]

I'd rather get rock that is established in a captive system. Less dieoff, no pests, and you know the rock "works". Live rock fresh from the ocean is a bit of a gamble. I wish there were a middleground with aquacultured live rock.

For me it is more about the diversity of organisms that oxidize, bind, or mineralize nutrients in all their forms. IMO, true live rock (at least in the form available today) is best to establish that diversity and provide it a place to do its thing. It's less about where the rock came from though. I'd jump on rock from a captive system if it had an equal level of diversity, was not attached to any system that contains fish, and was in water I could test for phosphates before I made a purchase.

 

[design.maddie]

Soaking in RO just kills the benefit of purchasing that rock, seems rather pointless, plus hitchhikers survive days in damp conditions, what makes you think 10 minutes of RO will do the trick, other than killing the bacteria you were purchasing it for? Not to be harsh or rude, but you’re better served by using saltwater to scrub it in.

I understand your thoughts. My thoughts were that it would drive out most of the hitchhikers from the rock so that I can pick and choose which ones to keep. The rock isn't for the bacteria really but more so the critters and incrusting algae. Where I got the 10 minute number? It is just arbitrary. I could be completely wrong in my process. I am not ashamed of admitting that. I have started 4 tanks in my life and only done this process on two. How often does one really setup new tanks?