When to worry about flashing?

[rklong3]

My Firefish is flashing VERY often over the last 2 days. I'm attempting to attach a video to this post.

As I describe in this older post, I have treated this tank many times with Prazi and more recently with Expel-P. I've seen minor improvements after each treatment but each time the flashing returns after only a few days.

My gut tells me something else is wrong. I see no visible symptoms and he is still eating well.

Should I be worried? What treatment would you recommend next? Catching him and putting into QT isn't an option. I'd have to move 150 lbs of live rock since he darts into a cave as soon as I try to get close with a net.

Thank you!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

If in doubt or this is continuous,apply prazi pro with initial application lasting 8 days. Change water and apply one more application for 8 days and add aeration with an air stone
Please post you tube video

 

[JD117]

If in doubt or this is continuous,apply prazi pro with initial application lasting 8 days. Change water and apply one more application for 8 days and add aeration with an air stone
Please post you tube video

What are the risks with prazi in a mixed reef tank? I've seen differing things on whether it nukes the tank or not and I'm not sure how likely it is and how to mitigate the risks

 

[rklong3]

Here is the YT video:

 

[rklong3]

If in doubt or this is continuous,apply prazi pro with initial application lasting 8 days. Change water and apply one more application for 8 days and add aeration with an air stone
Please post you tube video

Video link in separate comment. My concern is I have treated with Prazi 4 different times in the past 3 months. Do I have any other options?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Video link in separate comment. My concern is I have treated with Prazi 4 different times in the past 3 months. Do I have any other options?

How far apart were the prazi treatments spaced? The issue (that I may have discussed in the other thread) is that prazi does NOT kill fluke eggs. You need to try and space out the treatments so that new flukes emerging from the unhatched eggs are killed before they can lay new eggs of their own. The interval for this is not exactly known, I think that 8 days is best. Prazi is broken down by bacteria very quickly, so each dose is decompsed within 24 to 36 hours after being added. To make matters worse, this bacteria grows in numbers and can eat up the prazi about as fast as you are adding it after 4 or 5 treatments.

Fish do scratch due to particles in the water, and just from behavioral issues - but a fish that scratches a lot probably has flukes.

Hyposalinity also works very well against flukes, but of course, that is NOT reef safe.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is the YT video:

Video extremely short. . looking for 30-40 seconds to show a pattern. I still question how long you treated as some are confused by the package and treat for 3 days. Often it takes as much as 3 days to start working and may warrant repeated treatments
Other signs are loss of appetite, heavy breathing and hiding as examples

 

[rklong3]

How far apart were the prazi treatments spaced? The issue (that I may have discussed in the other thread) is that prazi does NOT kill fluke eggs. You need to try and space out the treatments so that new flukes emerging from the unhatched eggs are killed before they can lay new eggs of their own. The interval for this is not exactly known, I think that 8 days is best. Prazi is broken down by bacteria very quickly, so each dose is decompsed within 24 to 36 hours after being added. To make matters worse, this bacteria grows in numbers and can eat up the prazi about as fast as you are adding it after 4 or 5 treatments.

Fish do scratch due to particles in the water, and just from behavioral issues - but a fish that scratches a lot probably has flukes.

Hyposalinity also works very well against flukes, but of course, that is NOT reef safe.

Jay

Thank you. I did 3 different treatments, and each treatment consistented of 2 separate dosages spaced 8 days as you suggest. The treatments were probably 1-2 months apart from each other.

If flukes are the only probable cause, I'll try another treatment. I've read about them being very hard to eradicate. It is a frustrating experience for sure!

Thank you for responding!

 

[vetteguy53081]

What are the risks with prazi in a mixed reef tank? I've seen differing things on whether it nukes the tank or not and I'm not sure how likely it is and how to mitigate the risks

Prazi will lower oxygen and appetite slightly - reason I mentioned to increase aeration when using it

 

[rklong3]

Thank you. I did 3 different treatments, and each treatment consistented of 2 separate dosages spaced 8 days as you suggest. The treatments were probably 1-2 months apart from each other.

If flukes are the only probable cause, I'll try another treatment. I've read about them being very hard to eradicate. It is a frustrating experience for sure!

Thank you for responding!

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Update: I did a Prazi treatment last night and I thought I might lose both fish. They were both very negatively impacted, the Firefish sank into his cave and was completely limp for hours. Today they are moving around like normal. So a good sign.

Couple questions:

-When is it best to add carbon back into the tank?

-I've read that certain Prazi resistant flukes respond to a repeat treatment after 3 days. Is that worth trying or should I stick the course?

-Below are links to a few longer videos. Does this look like fluke behavior to you? In the heavy breathing video, you'll see a major mouth spasm at about 0:26. I just want to be sure that this seems consistent with flukes and that I shouldn't be considering any alternatives.

So appreciative of your help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Update: I did a Prazi treatment last night and I thought I might lose both fish. They were both very negatively impacted, the Firefish sank into his cave and was completely limp for hours. Today they are moving around like normal. So a good sign.

Couple questions:

-When is it best to add carbon back into the tank?

-I've read that certain Prazi resistant flukes respond to a repeat treatment after 3 days. Is that worth trying or should I stick the course?

-Below are links to a few longer videos. Does this look like fluke behavior to you? In the heavy breathing video, you'll see a major mouth spasm at about 0:26. I just want to be sure that this seems consistent with flukes and that I shouldn't be considering any alternatives.

So appreciative of your help.

Run for 8 days, not 3 as bottle suggests. As mentioned, it takes 3 days to really start working and as Jay too mentioned, 8 days apart. To Refresh. . . . to be safe , dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite.

 

[rklong3]

Run for 8 days, not 3 as bottle suggests. As mentioned, it takes 3 days to really start working and as Jay too mentioned, 8 days apart. To Refresh. . . . to be safe , dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite.

Thanks. Only thing still unclear....does that mean no carbon for 16 days then?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks. Only thing still unclear....does that mean no carbon for 16 days then?

Carbon will reduce glycol in the medication
Hold off

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Update: I did a Prazi treatment last night and I thought I might lose both fish. They were both very negatively impacted, the Firefish sank into his cave and was completely limp for hours. Today they are moving around like normal. So a good sign.

Couple questions:

-When is it best to add carbon back into the tank?

-I've read that certain Prazi resistant flukes respond to a repeat treatment after 3 days. Is that worth trying or should I stick the course?

-Below are links to a few longer videos. Does this look like fluke behavior to you? In the heavy breathing video, you'll see a major mouth spasm at about 0:26. I just want to be sure that this seems consistent with flukes and that I shouldn't be considering any alternatives.

So appreciative of your help.

The thing to understand is that if a fish has a heavy fluke infestation, when the prazi knocks all of the flukes off, that leaves hundreds/thousands of holes in the fish's skin and/or gills. In severe instances, the fish just die from that. In other cases, they look really rough, but recover. In a few cases, the open sores get infected and the fish disease from bacterial issues a week or so later.

Jay

 

[Patx]

For my personal knowledge... this fish look/acting sick ?
When he open his mouth this is not "normal" behaviors?

 

[rklong3]

The thing to understand is that if a fish has a heavy fluke infestation, when the prazi knocks all of the flukes off, that leaves hundreds/thousands of holes in the fish's skin and/or gills. In severe instances, the fish just die from that. In other cases, they look really rough, but recover. In a few cases, the open sores get infected and the fish disease from bacterial issues a week or so later.

Jay

Understood. Any treatments you'd recommend to try and avoid bacterial infection issues?

 

[rklong3]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Flashing and twitching is continuing and I would say is more frequent now than before. See video. Is this normal? Fish is eating fine.

 

[rklong3]

For my personal knowledge... this fish look/acting sick ?
When he open his mouth this is not "normal" behaviors?

Opening his mouth is normal but the way in which he is opening it isn't. Extra wide, almost like he is stretching his jaw. Also the flashing and twitching is very abnormal.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Flashing and twitching is continuing and I would say is more frequent now than before. See video. Is this normal? Fish is eating fine.

Also, my water is clouding up quite a bit. Can I add carbon back for a few days in between intervals?

perfect video
I saw it flash once in the entire video which is normal behavior and flicking of fins is for stability and more frequent when fish is intimidated and only acted nervous when watchman goby came nearby.
Flashing would be sudden darting or scratching/flicking itself against objects which is absent in video. Also breathing looks normal which is often elevated rate and even loss of appetite as well as yawning effect
Also water seems somewhat milky. What filter(s) are you using and what is ammonia and Nitrate level?

 

[rklong3]

perfect video
I saw it flash once in the entire video which is normal behavior and flicking of fins is for stability and more frequent when fish is intimidated and only acted nervous when watchman goby came nearby.
Flashing would be sudden darting or scratching/flicking itself against objects which is absent in video. Also breathing looks normal which is often elevated rate and even loss of appetite as well as yawning effect
Also water seems somewhat milky. What filter(s) are you using and what is ammonia and Nitrate level?

Just tested - both at 0.0

I have a Penguin 350 HOB Power Filter. But I have removed all carbon, which is causing the cloudiness. Water was crystal clear before treatment.

When would you add carbon back in?