White spots on fu manchu

[Deepdish]

Hey all

Got a fu manchu lion who has developed some white spots the last couple days. He's in the display tank right now, but going to get him in quarantine real soon at this rate. Any thoughts on diagnosis?

 

[JGT]

Looks like ich. How long have you had him?

 

[Deepdish]

A bit more than a month, still pretty new. You think it's worth treating the entire tank?

 

[JGT]

Yes, if he has it chances are others will shortly. You have no corals I presume?

 

[Deepdish]

No corals but some inverts for cleanup crew. I'm assuming copper is the move, any particular one you'd recommend?

 

[JGT]

Def copper but it could kill inverts. Could move to QT. Copper Power, Cupramine and CopperSafe are the meds of choice.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

@lion king

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I believe lions are sensitive to most kinds of copper but let's see if we can get an expert on board to shed some light on the best treatment methods

 

[lion king]

I am not an expert of diseases and diagnosing diseases, but from what I can tell that does look like ick. Lions do not tolerate any sort of copper treatment, and fu"s even more so. If they were to survive treatment they likely pass soon afterwards. I don't have direct experience with cp, and my observational experience has not seen success.

My experience with lions and ick is that a healthy lion is very resistant to protazoan diseases. How long have you had him and what are you feeding him. If he has been getting a dead diet of the most frequently fed foods like krill, silversides, frozen shrimp, and items broadcast in the water column; his immune system has been weakened. I have succeeded with lions surviving ick by keeping in pristine water conditions and feeding a live diet including mollies and ghost shrimp, or guppies if mollies are too large. The lion usually sheds his cuticle layer and with it the protazoan attack. Once the lions health gets to a point where the ick attaches, to save him he must be in pristine water and fed live food, the gut flora of live fish may be especially beneficial. The live food provides the nutrients necessary to support the immune system. If the ick progresses you would think to do a fresh water dip to give you time, this mostly proves ineffective as the lion then stresses and stops eating.

 

[Deepdish]

I am not an expert of diseases and diagnosing diseases, but from what I can tell that does look like ick. Lions do not tolerate any sort of copper treatment, and fu"s even more so. If they were to survive treatment they likely pass soon afterwards. I don't have direct experience with cp, and my observational experience has not seen success.

My experience with lions and ick is that a healthy lion is very resistant to protazoan diseases. How long have you had him and what are you feeding him. If he has been getting a dead diet of the most frequently fed foods like krill, silversides, frozen shrimp, and items broadcast in the water column; his immune system has been weakened. I have succeeded with lions surviving ick by keeping in pristine water conditions and feeding a live diet including mollies and ghost shrimp, or guppies if mollies are too large. The lion usually sheds his cuticle layer and with it the protazoan attack. Once the lions health gets to a point where the ick attaches, to save him he must be in pristine water and fed live food, the gut flora of live fish may be especially beneficial. The live food provides the nutrients necessary to support the immune system. If the ick progresses you would think to do a fresh water dip to give you time, this mostly proves ineffective as the lion then stresses and stops eating.

He's relatively new, had him for just over a month. He's eating ghost shrimp, and those ghost shrimp eat rod's food soaked in selcon. Just ate a couple days ago without issue. I'm more worried about it spreading to any other fish as well, but luckily haven't seen anything on anyone else yet.

Rest of the tank is a fuzzy dwarf lion, pair of longnose hawks, marine betta, tomentosus filefish, melanurus wrasse, and a ghost eel

 

[lion king]

He's relatively new, had him for just over a month. He's eating ghost shrimp, and those ghost shrimp eat rod's food soaked in selcon. Just ate a couple days ago without issue. I'm more worried about it spreading to any other fish as well, but luckily haven't seen anything on anyone else yet.

Rest of the tank is a fuzzy dwarf lion, pair of longnose hawks, marine betta, tomentosus filefish, melanurus wrasse, and a ghost eel

Well its already in the tank now, it just depends on the fish that are going to be susceptible at this point. The fuzzy and the eel would need to be managed the same way without copper treatment. Eels are also especially resistant. You mentioned a qt, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to pull him out. As I mentioned the gut flora in live fish is really the best medicine. Filefish are also pretty tough but I'm surprised the wrasse or hawkfish would not have been the 1st to show signs, Was there a fish you added since the fu that brought it in, or it really could have been there just waiting for an opening. Many times I've seen lions get a sprinkle of ick and a few days later they shed and then it's gone.

 

[Deepdish]

Well its already in the tank now, it just depends on the fish that are going to be susceptible at this point. The fuzzy and the eel would need to be managed the same way without copper treatment. Eels are also especially resistant. You mentioned a qt, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to pull him out. As I mentioned the gut flora in live fish is really the best medicine. Filefish are also pretty tough but I'm surprised the wrasse or hawkfish would not have been the 1st to show signs, Was there a fish you added since the fu that brought it in, or it really could have been there just waiting for an opening. Many times I've seen lions get a sprinkle of ick and a few days later they shed and then it's gone.

The marine betta was a recent add last week. Came from Liveaquaria diver’s den and didn’t appear to have anything going on when it arrived, although they’re spotty enough that maybe I just missed it

Likewise yeah I would’ve expected the wrasse to be the first to show, but he’s fine as far as I can tell. The eel is straight up indestructible, so I’m not too concerned w him

Unfortunately I’m working today, but when I’m out I’m planning on getting the fu into QT, doing a big water change, and monitoring everyone else. Gonna end up pulling and treating the betta if I see anything

Much appreciated for the input!