White stuff on rock, fish dying

[Jeremy Gibbs]

The gf is calling the LFS to explain what happened and see if they will be willing to foster the fish while we get the tank back up and running correctly. If they won't do that the only options are either find someone trustworthy in the Nashville area to do it, or take the fish up there and give them back for store credit. Good thing is they will give us retail price. I assume the two shrimp, hermit crabs, small star and 2 emerald crabs will be ok in the 10g tank as long as we monitor and do frequent water changes?

I'll be transferring the buckets of rock to the garage today after work (gotta get that stink out of dining room haha). Possibly do a water change today, if not then definitely tomorrow. When doing the water change I'll be scrubbing the rock to get anything dead off. I did keep the "real reef" rock separated from the live rock. When I was pulling it all out the real reef stuff did not stink or appear to have anything other than some green algae growing on it.

I lived in Nashville for a few years. I know the guys at Aquatic Critter have done that for customers and friends in the past. Ask nice and if they can they might just help you out.

 

[jaxteller007]

I lived in Nashville for a few years. I know the guys at Aquatic Critter have done that for customers and friends in the past. Ask nice and if they can they might just help you out.

They've been pretty nice so far and are just down the street from us. Although one of them is the one that tested our water on Saturday and said we are doing ok. I guess it would be possible for the ammonia to spike that badly from Saturday early morning to Monday?

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

So I feel like I've learned a few things here lol.
Don't "rescue" old sand if you buy an existing set up.
If you add live rock to an existing tank - CURE!
Even if you buy an already set up tank be extremely careful on adding any new fish.

Yes, yes and yes. I recently moved my well established 250 gallon system into a new 400 gallon system in another room and even though I transported the rock from one system to the other in a 30 gallon brute garbage can 1 load at a time keeping it submerged almost the entire time, most of the sponge growing on the rocks died. I scrubbed as much as I could off of it so the effect of the die off was minimal but it could just have easily been the temperature fluctuations during the move as the exposure to the air that killed it. And that was just from one room to another, very meticulously planned. I also chose not to move my deep sand bed (a 5 gallon bucket full of sand in my 100 gallon sump) into the new system. Instead I setup the sump on the new system and used MicroBacter7 to seed 3 big blocks of MarinePure before placing them into it, several days in advance of the big move. This helped offset the loss of the DSB's filtration capacity right out of the gate so I had processing capacity to handle the bioload and never saw ammonia or nitrite at all in the new system. I lost some microfaunal biodiversity in the process that I blame for a brief but painful Ostreopsis outbreak but all-in-all I think it was the right call because I didn't lose any fish or coral during the whole process. And microfaunal biodiversity can be restored after the dust settles by adding rubble from your LFS or some GARF grunge anyway. I went the GARF + Fiji Mud route. Dinos are gone now, diatoms are under control, and thanks to the MarinePure being in a low flow area of the sump (holding the skimmer up) I have to dose nitrate via KNO3 because the system devours nitrate to the tune of 1.5 ppm per day. BTW, I also used about 90% new water in the new system and drip acclimated all the fish once I had everything in and stabilized. The water isn't really where the useful bacteria are. They're all pretty much benthic. And I didn't add anything new to the system animal-wise for over 2 months after the move once I knew it was completely stable and even then only 1 or 2 things in a week.

 

[jaxteller007]

Well so we got good news. The LFS can absolutely foster our 4 fish (no charge). Obviously can't be held responsible if they die or whatever but they have a better shot up there than in our 10g hospital tank. So that being said since we are able to take the time and set this up right. How long should I cure the two types of rock now? Or since there will be no livestock in the tank, is it safe to scrub the dead sponge, etc off the live rock and put it in the big tank to start the cycle? I'm a little gun shy about that live rock now. But man the stuff that was alive on it was awesome.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

They've been pretty nice so far and are just down the street from us. Although one of them is the one that tested our water on Saturday and said we are doing ok. I guess it would be possible for the ammonia to spike that badly from Saturday early morning to Monday?

Absolutely. Ammonia goes up very fast if it's not being processed. It can become toxic in less than a day depending on the load. And if Nitrite was zero because the ammonia wasn't being processed and Nitrates were low to undetectable because there wasn't any nitrite to process or bacteria to do the job... In the absence of all the information "uncycled tank" wouldn't necessarily come to mind. You absolutely could have gone from good water to killing fish in half that time. In my experience, those guys know their stuff and they won't mislead you even to make a sale. Give them all the information and they'll help you out.

 

[jaxteller007]

And since these #reefcrew and all you other experts are here. Is it acceptable to post in the buy/sell forums (once i have the privilege) and ask what going rate is for hardware that I'm looking to sell since we are changing out and upgrading some stuff? It all came with the setup so I'm not looking to rob anyone.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

Well so we got good news. The LFS can absolutely foster our 4 fish (no charge). Obviously can't be held responsible if they die or whatever but they have a better shot up there than in our 10g hospital tank. So that being said since we are able to take the time and set this up right. How long should I cure the two types of rock now? Or since there will be no livestock in the tank, is it safe to scrub the dead sponge, etc off the live rock and put it in the big tank to start the cycle? I'm a little gun shy about that live rock now. But man the stuff that was alive on it was awesome.

Scrub the dead off, put all the rock in the big tank, get it like you want it and let the whole system cycle as it's going to be. If you want to add sand or any additional rock now's the time. Get yourself some MB7 and dose as directed. And if you have a sump with room for it I HIGHLY recommend Marine Pure. It will speed up the whole process a good bit and will later become a great habitat for amphipods and copepods and all manner of other helpful micro-life.

 

[jaxteller007]

Absolutely. Ammonia goes up very fast if it's not being processed. It can become toxic in less than a day depending on the load. And if Nitrite was zero because the ammonia wasn't being processed and Nitrates were low to undetectable because there wasn't any nitrite to process or bacteria to do the job... In the absence of all the information "uncycled tank" wouldn't necessarily come to mind. You absolutely could have gone from good water to killing fish in half that time. In my experience, those guys know their stuff and they won't mislead you even to make a sale. Give them all the information and they'll help you out.

Yea so far there's been 2-3 guys that have been amazing and 1 younger guy that I'm not impressed with. I've had that guy tell me two fish are fine together despite everything online saying otherwise.

 

[jaxteller007]

Scrub the dead off, put all the rock in the big tank, get it like you want it and let the whole system cycle as it's going to be. If you want to add sand or any additional rock now's the time.

Now i just need to find someone that sells the live sand I want local so I don't have to ship it haha.

 

[jaxteller007]

Scrub the dead off, put all the rock in the big tank, get it like you want it and let the whole system cycle as it's going to be. If you want to add sand or any additional rock now's the time. Get yourself some MB7 and dose as directed. And if you have a sump with room for it I HIGHLY recommend Marine Pure. It will speed up the whole process a good bit and will later become a great habitat for amphipods and copepods and all manner of other helpful micro-life.

Don't have a sump currently. We're in an apartment right now. The only reason we jumped in now before we move in June is the guy was selling the whole set up for like $400 and in our time shopping around a dang stand for a 75g can run $200 or more.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

Don't have a sump currently. We're in an apartment right now. The only reason we jumped in now before we move in June is the guy was selling the whole set up for like $400 and in our time shopping around a dang stand for a 75g can run $200 or more.

Yeah. Adding a sump later maybe during the move will be big benefit. Is the tank drilled at least so you could plumb it in later? And are you using a HOB skimmer? Having moved my system 4 times in the last 5 years I don't envy what lies ahead for you, but if you plan it carefully it can be done. Foster care for the fish during a move is always a good thing if you can swing it. I lost all my fish except a pair of clowns in one of my moves because of a temperature issue during the move thanks to a heater that didn't get plugged in properly. That was devastating and I was mad at myself for a long time over it.

 

[jaxteller007]

Yeah. Adding a sump later maybe during the move will be big benefit. Is the tank drilled at least so you could plumb it in later? And are you using a HOB skimmer? Having moved my system 4 times in the last 5 years I don't envy what lies ahead for you, but if you plan it carefully it can be done. Foster care for the fish during a move is always a good thing if you can swing it. I lost all my fish except a pair of clowns in one of my moves because of a temperature issue during the move thanks to a heater that didn't get plugged in properly. That was devastating and I was mad at myself for a long time over it.

Have a HOB skimmer bought from someone on here that should be delivered tomorrow. Switching the canister filter for a powered HOB. Torn between the Aquaclear 110 and the Seachem 110 right now. I like that the Seachem does surface skimming too.

There's actually a custom aquarium company here in Nashville that does moves as well. I'm scared to see the cost but it will be worth calling and talking to them.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

Have a HOB skimmer bought from someone on here that should be delivered tomorrow. Switching the canister filter for a powered HOB. Torn between the Aquaclear 110 and the Seachem 110 right now. I like that the Seachem does surface skimming too.

There's actually a custom aquarium company here in Nashville that does moves as well. I'm scared to see the cost but it will be worth calling and talking to them.

[emoji4] Yeah let me know how you feel about the sticker shock on that.

 

[jaxteller007]

[emoji4] Yeah let me know how you feel about the sticker shock on that.

Maybe it won't be too horrible since it's a smaller set up and just going from an apartment in Brentwood to a house in Brentwood LOL. Yea we may be fostering fish again.

 

[timnem70]

A 10 gallon with all that life in it? Take it to the fish store please.
Also, I noticed you have a canopy with a glass top on it? Those could potentially cause a coffin effect and may not let an exchange of oxygen happen. Just looking at the condensation on the lid, the tempnmay have been too high and al that livestock is dying off and killing your inhabitants. Start over. Add appropriate dry or cured new rock in it and a new sandbed. My guess is there is a bunch of gunk built up in that.
Good luck.

 

[paul barker]

I didn't know what the white stuff is but in a salt water tank Ammonia is bad it will kill fish fast I do a big what change 50 %

 

[jaxteller007]

A 10 gallon with all that life in it? Take it to the fish store please.
Also, I noticed you have a canopy with a glass top on it? Those could potentially cause a coffin effect and may not let an exchange of oxygen happen. Just looking at the condensation on the lid, the tempnmay have been too high and al that livestock is dying off and killing your inhabitants. Start over. Add appropriate dry or cured new rock in it and a new sandbed. My guess is there is a bunch of gunk built up in that.
Good luck.

The 10 gallon was a solution last night when we didn't really have any other options. The fish are going to be "fostered" tomorrow and the tank has been emptied of water and sand.

The glass canopy I cant do much about. We cant hang anything in the apartment and I'm guessing a screen top would allow entirely too much spray and stuff on a low profile LED light. I've been reading about the pros and cons of canopy vs screen and it seems to really come down to livestock kept and what you can physically do as far as lighting. I'd prefer a screen top but until we can hang the current light from the ceiling glass top it is. Changing the lighting system is out of the question right now.

Unless theres another way to get the light higher in the air.

 

[jaxteller007]

Well got the buckets moved to the garage and did a water change on them. The real reef stuff smelled like normal old ocean and didn't seem to have anything dead on it. The live rock on the other hand.. whoa. I'm not sure on putting any of it back in there. I scrubbed them and put them in new saltwater. Also have all the old equipment in a vinegar bath. Here's some pics of the live rock. I have no idea what to get off there other than the obvious dead stuff.

Editing to try again.

 

[jaxteller007]

And those pictures didn't go in order at all. Let's edit this and try again lol

 

[jaxteller007]

So using my patented death smell scale of 1-10. 1 being smells like the ocean, 10 being smells like death incarnate.
These two weren't bad at all. The one with the open flower looking things was probably like a 4, the one with the domed type like a 2-3.