White stuff on rock, fish dying

[jaxteller007]

To be concerned or not concerned lol.

 

[GoVols]

Its relatively new actually. The live rock was added last week. We bought a used set up and made the mistake of overloading it and over feeding.

Nitrite and nitrate are 0 are almost 0

Bout 3 weeks probably. But we bought it as an existing system that had been running for 6 months or more. We added real reef rock and live rock and more fish. In hindsight we added too many fish, and my allergies were acting up so I couldn't smell the live rock very well. But that piece I pulled off absolutely reeked.

Bingo

 

[Big G]

To be concerned or not concerned lol.

It's been in the sun and algae is growing.

 

[cracker]

. Man I just managed to delete the whole thing !

 

[jaxteller007]

It's been in the sun and algae is growing.

I think of like to stay away from that given the current state of our rank lol.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

How fast did this stuff pop up?

I’m afraid I don’t see “snow”, unless that’s it.

It does sound like a “mini cycle”, ammoina spike.
Yea bacteria , maybe water change.

But if the white is slimey bacteria , well, you have that covered.

 

[Katrina71]

First, don't beat yourself up. Some things happen with bacteria that we can't predict. Been there.

 

[JaimeAdams]

You bought a used system. Moved the system. I am assuming that you moved the old sand bed? Never move an existing sand bed, for what it's worth. Did you move all the water or was this all new water?

I believe that you bought live rock from the ocean that was not "cured" that had a ton of die off on it causing your ammonia to spike and killed your fish. At this point I would add bottled bacteria and let the tank cycle and do not think about adding any livestock until you have zero ammonia, zero Nitrite and some reading of Nitrate. You went too fast and it did not work out for you.

 

[Lasse]

Do you use any type of organic carbon like NoPox, vodka, sugar or vinegear. Do you use additives and if so, which? What do you use in order to test your ammonia?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Ammonia is toxic to animals at extremely low levels. Anything above 0.2 ppm requires immediate correction. Your ammonia level is double, or quadruple that, which is why you are losing fishes.

I suspect there was die-off on the live rock you recently added, and you note some overfeeding, which will also spike ammonia.

Do a 50%+ water change after matching salinity, temperature, and pH. Continue to perform this size water change until ammonia is reduced to zero (may require multiple per day).

Any detectable ammonia in a reef system is an emergency, I suggest finding a new local fish store if they told you otherwise.

You can´t say this without knowing the actual pH and to some extent - the temperature. Ammonia ion (NH4) is not toxic but the gas - ammonia gas or ammoniac (NH3) - is. pH and temperature always determine how they relate to each other. As an example - at 25 degree C and pH 8 - around 5 % is in the toxic form (NH3) - in the same temperature but pH 8.5 - 15 % is in the toxic form (NH3).
Most test give you the combination of these two forms - hence, its important to know pH and temperature at the same time. The only one I know that only give the toxic form is Seachem ammonia.

Nitrite is not especially toxic in saltwater - at least not for fishes

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jaxteller007]

Can't quote everyone but thanks for all the tips and help and advice. We now have a sailfin tang, diamond goby, royal gramma, bicolor benny (whose struggling but still fighting), a small star fish, couple hermits and 1 emerald crab in our 10 gallon tank. All the levels were great before we added any of them. The rest of the hermits and emerald crabs are in a bucket with some sand and some of the new water with a bubble stone going. I didn't think it would be wise to put all of them in the tiny tank. We're prepared to test that water constantly until the big tank is ready to go again. The dang tang and goby seemed to not notice the ammonia spike and are by far the most active lol.

All of the live rock is in a bucket of saltwater with a powerhead and heater going. The real reef rock is in two other buckets with the same setups. Holy hell did that live rock stink now when I took it out of the tank. Gotta move those buckets to the garage tomorrow. And get a toothbrush or something to scrub them in between water changes. I wonder if what I thought was a live clam was in fact a dead one and started the spike.

Should have new filter here along with protein skimmer and the rest of the live sand by Wed/Thursday. Probably going to bite the bullet and just get the ready made water from a store so I can get the fish out of that little tank. Or do I need to wait until the rock is cured and in the tank for some time before getting those guys back in there?

I'm following the directions from liveaquaria for curing the rock. I just worry about having all those guys in that 10g set up for very long.

 

[jaxteller007]

You bought a used system. Moved the system. I am assuming that you moved the old sand bed? Never move an existing sand bed, for what it's worth. Did you move all the water or was this all new water?

I believe that you bought live rock from the ocean that was not "cured" that had a ton of die off on it causing your ammonia to spike and killed your fish. At this point I would add bottled bacteria and let the tank cycle and do not think about adding any livestock until you have zero ammonia, zero Nitrite and some reading of Nitrate. You went too fast and it did not work out for you.

We kept the sand from the original set up, saved about 25 gallons of water and then filled the rest with the water from a LFS. Few days later we did about a 25% water change with more water from the LFS.

And our nitrites and nitrates actually read really well. Ammonia, not so much.

 

[Katrina71]

I'm not sure if anyone told you to drop an airstone in...I was thinking about the snow you mentioned. Your fish may be suffocating because of the bacterial bloom. If this post is a day late, sorry.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

We kept the sand from the original set up, saved about 25 gallons of water and then filled the rest with the water from a LFS. Few days later we did about a 25% water change with more water from the LFS.

And our nitrites and nitrates actually read really well. Ammonia, not so much.

First and foremost I would ask the guys at the LFS to foster your livestock while you sort your big tank if they'll do it. That's way too much to dump on a 10 gallon all at once even if it was well cycled and has a good biological filter already established. You're probably going to lose most of it if you leave it in that tank. Too much bioload too fast = unprocessed ammonia = everybody dies.

Also, the white stuff that stinks is most likely dead sponge. Whenever moving liverock it's a good idea to scrub all the sponge you can off of it. Most of the time just being exposed to air for a few minutes kills it. And it has been the downfall of many a tank move. If you haven't already you should pull every rock and scrub that stuff off with a wire brush. The less dead stuff in the system the faster it will turn around. Assume everything white that wasn't white to start with is dead.

And at this point I'd do a 100% water change before putting it back into the big tank and treat it like a brand new system. Up to 6 weeks with no livestock and use bacterial additives with just a small portion of food every couple of days to get it properly cycled. You can short cycle a tank if you stay on top of it but you need to test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate every couple of days and don't move forward with any livestock until you're seeing zero ammonia or nitrite.

You probably haven't killed all your bacterial microfauna but you've definitely got to let it get all the way cycled or you're just going to kill more livestock. If you haven't recently you might want to read up on tank cycling. There aren't a whole lot of shortcuts and even the best planned moves don't always go as planned. Good luck.

 

[JaimeAdams]

We kept the sand from the original set up, saved about 25 gallons of water and then filled the rest with the water from a LFS. Few days later we did about a 25% water change with more water from the LFS.

And our nitrites and nitrates actually read really well. Ammonia, not so much.

What you refer to your nitrate and nitrite reading really well, may not be so. When you said that they were zero and that all you had was high ammonia that is not well. Ammonia is broken down into Nitrite. Nitrite is broken down into Nitrate. In a cycled tank or cycling tank the nitrate should be elevated. In your case what that shows is not good; it shows that your tank is not cycled and that you do not have the bacteria colonies to be able to process ammonia down to nitrite and then into nitrate. In your case or any other tank cycling case having ammonia and reading zero on Nitrite and Nitrate is not doing really well. Don't worry though eventually it will once the tank cycles.

 

[Jeremy Gibbs]

What you refer to your nitrate and nitrite reading really well, may not be so. When you said that they were zero and that all you had was high ammonia that is not well. Ammonia is broken down into Nitrite. Nitrite is broken down into Nitrate. In a cycled tank or cycling tank the nitrate should be elevated. In your case what that shows is not good; it shows that your tank is not cycled and that you do not have the bacteria colonies to be able to process ammonia down to nitrite and then into nitrate. In your case or any other tank cycling case having ammonia and reading zero on Nitrite and Nitrate is not doing really well. Don't worry though eventually it will once the tank cycles.

Definitely not cycled. Ammonia and Nitrite should always be undetectable. Something else worth mentioning is that in a pinch Seachem's Prime when dosed properly can neutralize the toxicity of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I keep some on hand in the event I get a fish that was delayed in shipping and arrives in less than optimal water. But it could buy you some time in your 10 gallon as i would imagine you're already getting a buildup of some or all of the above. And definitely, heavy aeration will help everybody breath if you don't already have a skimmer running on the 10 gallon.

 

[Apotack]

Best advice you got was to find a home for fish and whatever else is alive. Let the rock cure, once the tank has cycled start adding fish back slowly over several weeks or more. At this point you need to consider this a new setup and work from there.

 

[jaxteller007]

So I feel like I've learned a few things here lol.
Don't "rescue" old sand if you buy an existing set up.
If you add live rock to an existing tank - CURE!
Even if you buy an already set up tank be extremely careful on adding any new fish.

 

[jaxteller007]

The gf is calling the LFS to explain what happened and see if they will be willing to foster the fish while we get the tank back up and running correctly. If they won't do that the only options are either find someone trustworthy in the Nashville area to do it, or take the fish up there and give them back for store credit. Good thing is they will give us retail price. I assume the two shrimp, hermit crabs, small star and 2 emerald crabs will be ok in the 10g tank as long as we monitor and do frequent water changes?

I'll be transferring the buckets of rock to the garage today after work (gotta get that stink out of dining room haha). Possibly do a water change today, if not then definitely tomorrow. When doing the water change I'll be scrubbing the rock to get anything dead off. I did keep the "real reef" rock separated from the live rock. When I was pulling it all out the real reef stuff did not stink or appear to have anything other than some green algae growing on it.

 

[Apotack]

I would let it cure in the tank but that’s just me. I’m sure someone on here is nearby and would help you out with fish.