Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[Baylott224]

Nicrew hyper reefs are good

 

[TwelveL16]

Because they figure most people with saltwater fish tanks can splurge a little as they are not a necessity. So they jack up the prices. So in short…greed.

Or… maybe it costs a lot of money for a legitimate manufacturer to design market and support a product and sell it for a reasonable profit.

If you worked for the Reef LED manufacturer, would you not want an high wage and cost of living increases, raises for hard work, tenure and bonuses? Would you not demand full benefits and healthcare, and paid time off? Discounts for friends and family, etc.

Hard to compare to low, zero or negative margin product from China — aimed at undercutting global competition — that violates IP, ethics and exploits trade law loopholes — has no real support or warranty — is overall lower quality — and is produced by factory campus sweatshop labor.

Hard for me to get on board with that knowing that greed is what drives society. If you’d like to quote me some costs as to what it actually costs to manufacturer a radion then maybe. I’d also like to know the CEOs yearly salary and how big his house is. Until then I’ll stick with greed.

 

[areefer01]

Is it greed if the market bears the price?

The goods are not essential and there is no monopoly. The market price is the market price. Want to drive it down? Then convince people not to pay it.

Greed and gouging are insanely misused terms.

No disagreement. It was more tongue in cheek. This isn't my first rodeo and I don't budget shame anyone.

 

[Baylott224]

Amazon product ASIN B0DBHD2V1W


Very nice they are the same shape as raidions or hydras just get the controller 50 $ is has 5 channels the 200 watt is like 399 and on sale for like 299 ish right now

 

[VintageReefer]

Even greenhouse grow lights are significantly less money. Something like this full spectrum 100W grow light with app controllability is less than $100.

These are brandless generic tiny leds with low par/penetration and no optics or lenses. They say it provides “maximum par” but doesn’t state any par numbers. It’s junk

for 40$ more you could get a viparspectra that would smoke it at growing corals
https://a.co/d/aHzAuiI

 

[TwelveL16]

Example of greed = $999 for a single head torch, $250 for a 1/4" fresh cut acropora of a color morph that very well could change under all our various lighting and water chemistry. Fun!

Hope you are well!

Is it greed if the market bears the price?

The goods are not essential and there is no monopoly. The market price is the market price. Want to drive it down? Then convince people not to pay it.

Greed and gouging are insanely misused terms.

Really? You think greed is misused when 40% of the world’s wealth is controlled by 1% of the population. That is the definition of greed and gouging and it’s rampant through out our society.

 

[Baylott224]

Amazon product ASIN B0DBHFBHQ2

Here

 

[Baylott224]

Sb reef lights was good just like a viva spectra but it had mounting legs but now u can't get them

But check out the nicrew even has a deep penetrated lens kit for deep tanks

 

[CBonito]

These are brandless generic tiny leds with low par/penetration and no optics or lenses. They say it provides “maximum par” but doesn’t state any par numbers. It’s junk

for 40$ more you could get a viparspectra that would smoke it at growing corals
https://a.co/d/aHzAuiI

Those do look pretty freaking cool man!

 

[TwelveL16]

Example of greed = $999 for a single head torch, $250 for a 1/4" fresh cut acropora of a color morph that very well could change under all our various lighting and water chemistry. Fun!

Hope you are well!

Is it greed if the market bears the price?

The goods are not essential and there is no monopoly. The market price is the market price. Want to drive it down? Then convince people not to pay it.

Greed and gouging are insanely misused terms.

Really? You think greed is misused when 98% of the world’s wealth is controlled by 1% of the population. That is the definition of greed and gouging and it’s rampant through out our society.

I was wrong, 40% of the worlds wealth is owned by 1%. Still broken.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Hard for me to get on board with that knowing that greed is what drives society. If you’d like to quote me some costs as to what it actually costs to manufacturer a radion then maybe. I’d also like to know the CEOs yearly salary and how big his house is. Until then I’ll stick with greed.

I think the point is, if the prices were outrageous, only the fringe would purchase them.

I agree with beananimal, that the only way to bring down prices is to convince the masses that they're too expensive. But, sadly, thats a fools errand. This hobby attracts many people from many different income brackets. What's expensive to one is fair to another.

As to the income bracket of those that created radion, it's not hard to imagine they're quite comfortable, financially.

To inject fair market, there are many options to grow coral, radion doesn't command a monopoly, if you own radions then you purchased them of your own free will. If you chose another brand, it means you were given the power to choose.

 

[TwelveL16]

I think the point is, if the prices were outrageous, only the fringe would purchase them.

I agree with beananimal, that the only way to bring down prices is to convince the masses that they're too expensive. But, sadly, thats a fools errand. This hobby attracts many people from many different income brackets. What's expensive to one is fair to another.

As to the income bracket of those that created radion, it's not hard to imagine they're quite comfortable, financially.

To inject fair market, there are many options to grow coral, radion doesn't command a monopoly, if you own radions then you purchased them of your own free will. If you chose another brand, it means you were given the power to choose.

I understand how it works. An item is worth what someone is willing to pay. Im sure Ecotech has marketing team in place to find that sweet spot, but if you dont think they arent trying to squeeze every penny they can out of us than you are wrong. I mean who wouldnt? Just gets upsetting when you see them driving their lambos and living in their oversized houses. Never seen anyone from ecotech doing so and I do not know their salaries so maybe Im just plain wrong. I am making assumptions based on the majority of large companies out there which in my opinion is fair.

 

[VintageReefer]

Sb reef lights was good just like a viva spectra but it had mounting legs but now u can't get them

But check out the nicrew even has a deep penetrated lens kit for deep tanks

Sb reef is still around, they started making lights for darpa coral research facilities

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I understand how it works. An item is worth what someone is willing to pay. Im sure Ecotech has marketing team in place to find that sweet spot, but if you dont think they arent trying to squeeze every penny they can out of us than you are wrong. I mean who wouldnt? Just gets upsetting when you see them driving their lambos and living in their oversized houses. Never seen anyone from ecotech doing so and I do not know their salaries so maybe Im just plain wrong. I am making assumptions based on the majority of large companies out there which in my opinion is fair.

It's not that I don't agree with you, especially now that PE is now in charge.

A good thing about all this is that balance is natural. I'm of the opinion that major restructuring is inevitable for them in order to continue to stay relevant.

 

[VintageReefer]

Those do look pretty freaking cool man!

These have been around a while, they have a built in controller, a remote, and they are par cannons. Very strong. And I know a number of people running some of the best reefs you’ll see using these vipars

 

[BeanAnimal]

I was wrong, 40% of the world’s wealth is owned by 1%. Still broken.

Sure… concentration of wealth exists… but throwing around memes to explain the price of a reef light is lazy.

Running a company for profit isn’t theft, criminal or greedy.

Risk, innovation, payroll, liability, marketing, — none of it is free. Running a legitimate business is brutally expensive.

You as the consumer want the quality product, the support, the warranty. You as employee want the high wage and benefits. You as the activist want the company to be green and diverse and ethical and philanthropic. That all costs money — especially when the overseas competitor undercutting you does none of that — driving your overhead up and your sales down.

Where does “fair” end and “greed” begin? If you accept a raise, are you greedy, or do you deserve it? At what point do you say “ahh, no thanks, I make too much already”?

Are you against “lambos” and “oversized houses” because you have no desire, or because you can’t afford them or because they are unfair? Well, what about the guy who wants a reef and a basic car and a simple house but can’t afford those on his wage. You loathe CEO that makes more than you. Have you considered that the guy that makes less than you, thinks aquariums are luxury and your house and other possessions are “excess” and looks at you the same way as you look at the CEO?

No need to answer, just something to think about.

You may not like the price of things, but that does not mean that everything around you is greed driven.

 

[TwelveL16]

I was wrong, 40% of the world’s wealth is owned by 1%. Still broken.

Sure… concentration of wealth exists… but throwing around memes to explain the price of a reef light is lazy.

Running a company for profit isn’t theft, criminal or greedy.

Risk, innovation, payroll, liability, marketing, — none of it is free. Running a legitimate business is brutally expensive.

You as the consumer want the quality product, the support, the warranty. You as employee want the high wage and benefits. You as the activist want the company to be green and diverse and ethical and philanthropic. That all costs money — especially when the competitor undercutting you does none of that — driving your overhead up and your sales down.

Where does “fair” end and “greed” begin? If you accept a raise, are you greedy, or do you deserve it? At what point do you say “ahh, no thanks, I make too much already”?

Are you against “lambos” and “oversized houses” because you have no desire, or because you can’t afford them or because they are unfair? Well, what about the guy who wants a reef and a basic car but can’t afford those on his wage. You loathe CEO that makes more than you. Have you considered that the guy that makes less than you, your house and your reef and other “excess” looks at you the same way?

No need to answer, just something to think about.

You may not like the price of things, but that does not mean that everything around you is greed driven.

The “meme” or as I would call it a fact was in reference to your comment about the overuse of the word greed and gouging being insane. It was not about the reef light.

I’m a cop, which is one of the most under paid jobs in the country right now. I’ve been feet away from children burning alive in a house and not be able to reach them or save them. The things we see NO ONE should have to see. Also, take police away and see how much the demand for law enforcement goes through the roof. Supply and demand doesn’t apply to us, our wages just stay bad.

To your point, I can understand a hard working company wanting to make a “reasonable profit” but what’s reasonable to them may not be reasonable to the next guy and trying to decide what it should be is difficult.

I’m not against lambos or oversized houses but I use reason to understand that the world is ridiculous. I mean just the other day I saw a house on tv that was 105,000 sq feet. Let’s be honest, that is greed.

I have things I don’t need. Am I being hypocritical by owning things I don’t need and saying all this, maybe. I also don’t think anyone needs to profiting billions of dollars a year. I support working hard for things ya want vs need but I do think a line should be drawn somewhere.

 

[VintageReefer]

Sure… concentration of wealth exists… but throwing around memes to explain the price of a reef light is lazy.

Running a company for profit isn’t theft, criminal or greedy.

Risk, innovation, payroll, liability, marketing, — none of it is free. Running a legitimate business is brutally expensive.

You as the consumer want the quality product, the support, the warranty. You as employee want the high wage and benefits. You as the activist want the company to be green and diverse and ethical and philanthropic. That all costs money — especially when the competitor undercutting you does none of that — driving your overhead up and your sales down.

Where does “fair” end and “greed” begin? If you accept a raise, are you greedy, or do you deserve it? At what point do you say “ahh, no thanks, I make too much already”?

Are you against “lambos” and “oversized houses” because you have no desire, or because you can’t afford them or because they are unfair? Well, what about the guy who wants a reef and a basic car but can’t afford those on his wage. You loathe CEO that makes more than you. Have you considered that the guy that makes less than you, your house and your reef and other “excess” looks at you the same way?

No need to answer, just something to think about.

You may not like the price of things, but that does not mean that everything around you is greed driven.

Example of a company walking the line - Reefbreeders. They recently released the Meridian, it’s not the cheapest light out there but certainly not the most expensive. They are charging what they need to and nothing excess. Here’s what people might not know:

1) while the photon was a custom layout, it was in an existing lights chassis. The meridian is 100% original and a exclusive design by RB from ground up

2) the photon v2 was a highly successful light. And I’m a big fan of it. I used it for several years and would take it over most other lights on the market today. RB goal with the Meridian was to make a superior light - in all areas. They told me there isn’t one thing that the photon does better than a Meridian. The photon is not a bad light at all. The Meridian is very very good.

3) To achieve this, it took almost 4 years of r/d, testing and more r/d. They invested over a million dollars into the creation and development of the optic lenses alone.

4) the prior app was not owned by rb. It was a modified app from another developer, who owned the rights and could control it. For the Meridian, RB wanted to remain in control of the new app and not be powerless if a situation arose. They invested heavily into creating their own app from scratch to better protect users long term.

5) now that the light is out, they aren’t price gouging to be rich. They are trying to walk the line between staying afloat and modest profit - to reinvest into the company to bring more products and innovation in future years

The main owner has not given himself a paycheck for over 6 months. He drives a 2018 accord. The owners live in average houses. They are not rich and they are not trying to become rich. They are trying to build products they believe in for a company they believe in.

People may say something’s “too expensive” and that’s a surface level observation. Maybe, like RB, there’s some background to the pricing that you aren’t aware of, and no part of that is for a ceo to live a lifestyle of excess.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-breeders-meridians.1095449/post-13304781

 

[areefer01]

I’m a cop, which is one of the most under paid jobs in the country right now. I’ve been feet away from children burning alive in a house and not be able to reach them or save them. The things we see NO ONE should have to see. Also, take police away and see how much the demand for law enforcement goes through the roof. Supply and demand doesn’t apply to us, our wages just stay bad.

LEO - how is your pension and retirement? This thread is really starting to go off into the weeds.

 

[cricket3901]

Why can’t they be like $20 freshwater lights