Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[Entity77]

Well, it's in the sun. It can reach up to 66ft deep in the ocean.

Our scientific evidence is lacking in most things.
Experts said the sun is bad for us and we need to slather with chemical sun blocks. In the 70s skin cancer was 1 in 10,000 people. Now it's 140 in 10,000.
I've been surfing religiously for over 40 years. I've never used sunscreen and still no skin cancer.

I mean if I never went to the doctors, I'd never have any diseases diagnosed...catch my drift?

 

[CBonito]

Once I got rid of the halides on my 180 gal, I had to add 2 more heaters. I'm wondering how many heaters I would need on my new 10' tank with leds? I did run a small fan just in mid summer when I had halides.

There is A LOT less heat with LED than with metal halide. So chances are you might need to add more heat. I dont know. I had too much heat with metal halides. Now I have a nice 77.5-78.5 range. Before I was climbing up to 82 and beyond.

 

[GeoSquid]

I mean if I never went to the doctors, I'd never have any diseases diagnosed...catch my drift?

Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

 

[CBonito]

Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

My little sis is a Doctor and she will vouch for that.

 

[Entity77]

Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

Hobbyist are the leading cause of fish and coral death in the aquarium.

 

[areefer01]

Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

It all comes down to asking the right question unless you are a trial attorney. Few good articles out there on the subject. I would encourage you to read more than one attention getting article.

 

[GeoSquid]

I've grown a healthy distrust of the CDC and most govt agencies over the last 5 years. As far as doctors, they've been trying to kill me with their poison pills for decades. All they can do is match a pill to symptom. I went carnivore 3 years ago, cured high BP and life long gerd. Now, I'm 57, no pills and can out surf my 20 year old kids. And to bring this back to the topic, trying to replace the leds in my house. I think they are most likely unhealthy for us and our fish. But that's probably conspiracy...ha.

 

[CBonito]

I've grown a healthy distrust of the CDC and most govt agencies over the last 5 years. As far as doctors, they've been trying to kill me with their poison pills for decades. All they can do is match a pill to symptom. I went carnivore 3 years ago, cured high BP and life long gerd. Now, I'm 57, no pills and can out surf my 20 year old kids. And to bring this back to the topic, trying to replace the leds in my house. I think they are most likely unhealthy for us and our fish. But that's probably conspiracy...ha.

LEDs are definitely bad for your eyes, so blocking any spillover is smart.

 

[areefer01]

I've grown a healthy distrust of the CDC and most govt agencies over the last 5 years. As far as doctors, they've been trying to kill me with their poison pills for decades. All they can do is match a pill to symptom. I went carnivore 3 years ago, cured high BP and life long gerd. Now, I'm 57, no pills and can out surf my 20 year old kids. And to bring this back to the topic, trying to replace the leds in my house. I think they are most likely unhealthy for us and our fish. But that's probably conspiracy...ha.

Well there are other sources around the world other than the CDC. I understand the direction of your thought process though so we should shelve it for now. Not that you did anything wrong just don't want to turn it if that makes sense.

Hope your day is well.

 

[BeanAnimal]

There is A LOT less heat with LED than with metal halide. So chances are you might need to add more heat. I dont know. I had too much heat with metal halides. Now I have a nice 77.5-78.5 range. Before I was climbing up to 82 and beyond.

A watt is a watt...

150 watts of LED and 150 watts of metal halide produce the same total amount of heat. The difference is in how that heat is distributed.

MH may direct more radiant energy downward via the lamp and reflector, while LEDs shed more heat rearward through heatsinks.

But neither contributes significantly more heat to the water via radiation or convection. In both cases, most of the heat ends up in the room, not the tank. So room thermal management is key, regardless of the fixture type.

Some will argue that you can get the same growth with fewer watts of LED. I will leave that to them, as it not a debate I care to entertain.

 

[iannarelli]

Are reef leds a lot more expensive to produce than hydroponic grow leds? The prices seem significantly different.

Even greenhouse grow lights are significantly less money. Something like this full spectrum 100W grow light with app controllability is less than $100.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I've also been reading that maybe led lighting might not be good for us. My sister had to remove all led lights in her house. The flicker was causing her severe migraines. Wonder if our fish notice it?

LEDs can flicker if driven by low frequency PWM -- especially under poorly filtered or cheap drivers. You will find these in some cheap residential lamps.

This flicker for most is decent LEDs lightbulbs, cans, etc. (Halo, GE, etc,) is often in the 100–500 Hz range. That is too fast for most people to notice consciously. It can still trigger migraines or eye strain in sensitive individuals.

But those same individuals usually have similar issues with fluorescent lights, some televisions (CRT, DLP, LCoS, OLED, etc) and other display devices. Fluorescent lights driven by magnetic ballasts flicker at 120 Hz (in the U.S.). Those with electronic ballasts raise that frequency into the kHz range, reducing visible flicker. You would be stunned at how many commercial fixtures are still magnetic!

It is my understanding that some fish can detect flicker up to several hundred Hz. I don't think there are a lot of studies on this, at least I didn't find many with a quick search.

 

[GeoSquid]

I still think the LED reef light prices are ridiculous. I got the $30 catalina mh bulbs and fired them up. Very beautiful light to my eyes. Maybe if people started switching back to them more manufacturers would start producing them again.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Maybe if people started switching back to them more manufacturers would start producing them again.

Not even a remote chance outside of a few niche manufacturers. We had metal halides because industry used them everywhere. The reef hobby was not even a blip on the radar. The world has moved on. Metal Halides are wagon wheels.

 

[TwelveL16]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

Because they figure most people with saltwater fish tanks can splurge a little as they are not a necessity. So they jack up the prices. So in short…greed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Because they figure most people with saltwater fish tanks can splurge a little as they are not a necessity. So they jack up the prices. So in short…greed.

Or… maybe it costs a lot of money for a legitimate manufacturer to design market and support a product and sell it for a reasonable profit.

If you worked for the Reef LED manufacturer, would you not want an high wage and cost of living increases, raises for hard work, tenure and bonuses? Would you not demand full benefits and healthcare, and paid time off? Discounts for friends and family, etc.

Hard to compare to low, zero or negative margin product from China — aimed at undercutting global competition — that violates IP, ethics and exploits trade law loopholes — has no real support or warranty — is overall lower quality — and is produced by factory campus sweatshop labor.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

So in short…greed.

Perhaps. Although I don't think many manufacturers are wringing their hands in greed. I think they approach the topic with certian bias in order to logically justify their decisions.

In this case, I'd imagine they took into account the longevity of LEDs vs the cost to replace bulbs (t5s, mh, etc) and set their price accordingly.

 

[areefer01]

Perhaps. Although I don't think many manufacturers are wringing their hands in greed. I think they approach the topic with certian bias in order to logically justify their decisions.

In this case, I'd imagine they took into account the longevity of LEDs vs the cost to replace bulbs (t5s, mh, etc) and set their price accordingly.

Example of greed = $999 for a single head torch, $250 for a 1/4" fresh cut acropora of a color morph that very well could change under all our various lighting and water chemistry. Fun!

Hope you are well!

 

[tzabor10]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

Start your own business. It can be very lucrative

 

[BeanAnimal]

Example of greed = $999 for a single head torch, $250 for a 1/4" fresh cut acropora of a color morph that very well could change under all our various lighting and water chemistry. Fun!

Hope you are well!

Is it greed if the market bears the price?

The goods are not essential and there is no monopoly. The market price is the market price. Want to drive it down? Then convince people not to pay it.

Greed and gouging are insanely misused terms.