Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[Tuffyyyyy]

How did you sneak by me?.. I must have been typing slow.. but thanks for the support..:)

Where did you get the 72W from? Listed below for 60" but your conclusion is fine.. ;)
http://www.dfwaquarium.com/Products/Reefbrite-LED-Strips/48-Blue-XHO-LED-Strip.html

I pulled it from the BRS page Fascinating that they’d have different specs on different sites. But here’s what it says on their page:

Specifications:
12 LEDs per foot
LED Wattage - 3w per LED (driven at approx 50%)

 

[Aardvark1134]

XHO Model
Length	LEDs	Wattage	Power Supply
X	X	X	X
X	X	X	X
15"	12​	18w	60w
24”	18​	27w	60w
30"	24​	36w	90w
36"	30​	45w	90w
48"	36​	54w	90w
60"	48​	72w	120w
72"	54​	81w	120w

 

[atoll]

Not a quote by Atoll.

Not even by Atoll. I was going to reply to the rest of his post but seeing he misquoted me it would not be worth it. I am ASSUMING that of course.

Not a quote by Atoll.

How strange, am sure I must have wrote that, then again. :rolleyes:

 

[Doglips56]

This is just my own personal experience, but I ran six Kessil A360WEs and two 80W T5HO lights for several years. After an Apex failure, I lost a couple of Kessils. I was undecided about lighting, so I decided to try some black box lights off of Amazon (Philzon). They don't have all of the controls and ramping, but I could install three units for less than the price of one Kessil until I made my mind up about permanent lighting upgrades (I was leaning toward ReefBreeders, but the coronavirus situation caused them to be unavailable for the foreseeable future). Well, after of couple of months with the black box lights, the coral growth has been amazing. I've never had the kind of growth I'm experiencing now, and the coloration has improved and changed dramatically. I see colors in corals that were never there before. Now, I hesitate to change anything simply due to all of the success I've had with this unintentional experiment.

I had almost $2000 in lighting before, and I replaced all of that with $250 worth of lighting that seems to perform better. Go figure.

Thanks I will be looking into these!

 

[Doglips56]

This is just my own personal experience, but I ran six Kessil A360WEs and two 80W T5HO lights for several years. After an Apex failure, I lost a couple of Kessils. I was undecided about lighting, so I decided to try some black box lights off of Amazon (Philzon). They don't have all of the controls and ramping, but I could install three units for less than the price of one Kessil until I made my mind up about permanent lighting upgrades (I was leaning toward ReefBreeders, but the coronavirus situation caused them to be unavailable for the foreseeable future). Well, after of couple of months with the black box lights, the coral growth has been amazing. I've never had the kind of growth I'm experiencing now, and the coloration has improved and changed dramatically. I see colors in corals that were never there before. Now, I hesitate to change anything simply due to all of the success I've had with this unintentional experiment.

I had almost $2000 in lighting before, and I replaced all of that with $250 worth of lighting that seems to perform better. Go figure.

I see multiple Philzon grow lights on Amazon. Specifically what did you get? And how many inches from top of tank do you have them mounted and how do you run them (hours) and do you run them concurrently with your remaining kessils?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I see multiple Philzon grow lights on Amazon. Specifically what did you get? And how many inches from top of tank do you have them mounted and how do you run them (hours) and do you run them concurrently with your remaining kessils?

I got the Philzon reef light. You have to search for it a little. I'd post the link, but it's not working from my phone for some reason. If you can't find it let me how and I'll post it from the computer when I get home.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I see multiple Philzon grow lights on Amazon. Specifically what did you get? And how many inches from top of tank do you have them mounted and how do you run them (hours) and do you run them concurrently with your remaining kessils?

See if this link works:
Check this out at Amazon.com
Phlizon 165W Dimmable Full Spectrum Auqarium LED Light Fish Tank LED Reef Decoration Light for Saltwater Freshwater Fish Coral Reef Amazon product ASIN B074DRJK18
I bought three for my 125 gallon tank.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I don't know why Amazon links are no longer working. Here is the text description for the light if you want to search for it:

Phlizon 165W Dimmable Full Spectrum Auqarium LED Light Fish Tank LED Reef Decoration Light for Saltwater Freshwater Fish Coral Reef

 

[Doglips56]

These look GREAT! Thank you! I think I may get a couple and add them in between my Noopsyche’s for better coverage and larger spectrum. I don’t have any red channel. Thanks so much!

 

[GeoSquid]

I'm starting to think LED reef lighting is a scam. I've been in the hobby since the early 90s. I'm starting a new 10' tank, should be delivered in a week. Upgrading from a 180 gal I've had running for 8 years. I would need at least 5 led fixtures ~$450 each conservatively. I decided to go back to metal halides. 3 400w at $75 each. I still think it is a much nicer light and there are arguments that it's better for our fish and coral. I also felt my tank looked better when I used to run them.

 

[atoll]

I agree, we used HQI lights back in the day. I had 2 x 250w over a 6' x 2' x 2' and there is nothing they wouldn't grow at the time. The "experts" of the day said you couldn't keep a Magnifica nem for more than a few weeks. I had mine for years. I put it directly under one of the HQI lights and it never moved more than an inch or so side to side.

 

[W31Olds]

I don't think it's a scam, simply a matter of scale. I would think the main cost driver would be the limited production most of the Manufacturers must project. Reef light pricing cannot be compared with Household LED's that are manufactured by the millions.

 

[GeoSquid]

Just saw a video on polo reef testing UV and comparing leds to MH. It was interesting.

 

[X-37B]

I ran halides forever and switched to all leds about 5 years ago.
Unless you have the ballasts and fixtures they are about as expensive as leds, depending on brand.
Change your bulbs once a year on 3 mh equals $250-300 a year cost.
most dont factor that in.
In 5 years the cost is another $1500 so really not that much difference, imo, cost wise vs leds.
Current prices
Fixture 300
Ballast 200
Lamp 75-100
Say 600 for a setup.
You can find leds for that amount that work .
I can get a very halide look on my 60×30×21 with my current led setup.

 

[oreo54]

I'm starting to think LED reef lighting is a scam. I've been in the hobby since the early 90s. I'm starting a new 10' tank, should be delivered in a week. Upgrading from a 180 gal I've had running for 8 years. I would need at least 5 led fixtures ~$450 each conservatively. I decided to go back to metal halides. 3 400w at $75 each. I still think it is a much nicer light and there are arguments that it's better for our fish and coral. I also felt my tank looked better when I used to run them.

Dang x-37b. I was making some final touches on my " guesstimation" ...

Snip...found a better place for what was below. .

 

[areefer01]

I agree, we used HQI lights back in the day. I had 2 x 250w over a 6' x 2' x 2' and there is nothing they wouldn't grow at the time. The "experts" of the day said you couldn't keep a Magnifica nem for more than a few weeks. I had mine for years. I put it directly under one of the HQI lights and it never moved more than an inch or so side to side.

This makes no sense. We used what we had available at the time. As lighting evolved so did our choices which is why we saw the use of svho, pc, t5, etc.

Note this isn't a debate about which is better only to 'back in the day' comment. If the same LED's of today are available 'back in the day' we would have used them.

 

[GeoSquid]

Alternatively - Yes, it would take about 5 years using the most expensive bulbs to equal prices. Will that LED fixture need to be replaced in 5 years? They lose par over time. MH will just be replacing the bulb still. Also, I used to use the plusrite 400w 20k bulbs and they were beautiful. $10 each. They dont make them anymore. I am trying the catalina 400w 20k right now. $30 each. I fired them and they look really nice so far but dont have the tank yet. Reefbrites are around $80. Also, I used to replace bulbs about every 18 mos, not once a year. Plus, for a lot of people, it's not easy to drop $400+ for a single fixture. Especially if you need multiples.

 

[oreo54]

Alternatively - Yes, it would take about 5 years using the most expensive bulbs to equal prices. Will that LED fixture need to be replaced in 5 years? They lose par over time. MH will just be replacing the bulb still. Also, I used to use the plusrite 400w 20k bulbs and they were beautiful. $10 each. They dont make them anymore. I am trying the catalina 400w 20k right now. $30 each. I fired them and they look really nice so far but dont have the tank yet. Reefbrites are around $80. Also, I used to replace bulbs about every 18 mos, not once a year. Plus, for a lot of people, it's not easy to drop $400+ for a single fixture. Especially if you need multiples.

5 years is the current no proof guestimate ..
It has little basis in real data..

As to real lifespan estimates...it's complicated.
There is the same circumstantial evidence of much longer useable life than 5 years.
Do the LEDs themselves to fade? Sure
Ho long and how much..?? Guess.




Bulb cost is about $1000/ 5yrs assuming a 18 month replacement cycle.
Those cheap Chinese ones currently are not having a stellar history.

 

[GeoSquid]

Those cheap Chinese ones currently are not having a stellar history.

Chineese leds or chineese MH bulbs? I belive the catalina mh bulbs are german.

 

[areefer01]

5 years is the current no proof guestimate ..
It has little basis in real data..

As to real lifespan estimates...it's complicated.
There is the same circumstantial evidence of much longer useable life.

Bulb cost is about $1000/ 5yrs assuming a 18 month replacement cycle.
Those cheap Chinese ones currently are not having a stellar history.

Quality LED manufactures give life expectancy and I am sure that is based on their internal testing be it factual duration or combination of modeling and testing results. Kessil on the a365x FAQ page notes 35,000 hours, about 5-7 years, if properly maintained. How that translates to hobbyist depends on their use. Shorter if 100% on vs ramping up, down, and peak hour usage and intensity.

Nothing you don't already know.