Why are LED lights so Expensive?

AllSignsPointToFish

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Please tell! I’d love to have different lights
Please tell! I’d love to have different lights
This is just my own personal experience, but I ran six Kessil A360WEs and two 80W T5HO lights for several years. After an Apex failure, I lost a couple of Kessils. I was undecided about lighting, so I decided to try some black box lights off of Amazon (Philzon). They don't have all of the controls and ramping, but I could install three units for less than the price of one Kessil until I made my mind up about permanent lighting upgrades (I was leaning toward ReefBreeders, but the coronavirus situation caused them to be unavailable for the foreseeable future). Well, after of couple of months with the black box lights, the coral growth has been amazing. I've never had the kind of growth I'm experiencing now, and the coloration has improved and changed dramatically. I see colors in corals that were never there before. Now, I hesitate to change anything simply due to all of the success I've had with this unintentional experiment.

I had almost $2000 in lighting before, and I replaced all of that with $250 worth of lighting that seems to perform better. Go figure.
 
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If you have ever seen the videos of Terrance (Neptune Systems, Apex, etc.) in his huge house - or the new (2013) BRS offices and warehouse - you have some idea why these marine items are so expensive.

Personal homes have nothing to do with it and earned. Office space, regardless of industry, is factored into the price be it BRS or SAP.

I really don't understand these threads. How much do you pay for a Big Mac or that fancy Latte you drink every day? You don't need the lights and you have choices.
 

atoll

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fcmatt

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I suppose we consider t5
This is just my own personal experience, but I ran six Kessil A360WEs and two 80W T5HO lights for several years. After an Apex failure, I lost a couple of Kessils. I was undecided about lighting, so I decided to try some black box lights off of Amazon (Philzon). They don't have all of the controls and ramping, but I could install three units for less than the price of one Kessil until I made my mind up about permanent lighting upgrades (I was leaning toward ReefBreeders, but the coronavirus situation caused them to be unavailable for the foreseeable future). Well, after of couple of months with the black box lights, the coral growth has been amazing. I've never had the kind of growth I'm experiencing now, and the coloration has improved and changed dramatically. I see colors in corals that were never there before. Now, I hesitate to change anything simply due to all of the success I've had with this unintentional experiment.

I had almost $2000 in lighting before, and I replaced all of that with $250 worth of lighting that seems to perform better. Go figure.

One thing I have noticed with some folks is that they buy a new gadget which gets them excited about their tank again which they then tend to maintain better for a few months. More testing, more water changes, adjusting alk to be more stable,, cleaning the sump/tank... etc.. then claim new gadget must be the reason! :)

Did you do any of that or just replace the lights and no other change in routine?
 

45ZoaGarden

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So they do some research on lighting and yet still put out a light with a number of issues. Fixtures and control issues. Am.not doubting the research on corals so much but the equipment itself.
But you were asking about them doing research in “white lab coats” about which lighting is best. A question (really an assumption that they didn’t) that I answered with facts. Stop assuming. They do research on which parts to use just as much. If you’re going to complain about failures, yes, everything has the possibility to fail under conditions we apply. And if you search hard enough, you’ll find failures on most units pretty common. Yes, you may be able to find 5 examples here on r2r but how many other people have them without issue?
 

atoll

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But you were asking about them doing research in “white lab coats” about which lighting is best.

I did? I must have missed where I wrote that. I must have if you read it in one of my posts. Perhaps then you could be so kind to show where I said that and I will apologise if not I am sure you will do the right thing. Thanks.
 

Neoalchemist

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With current outlook on global markets and supply chains this whole market is going to shift in the next year or so anyway. Some of these lighting option likely won't exist soon.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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I suppose we consider t5


One thing I have noticed with some folks is that they buy a new gadget which gets them excited about their tank again which they then tend to maintain better for a few months. More testing, more water changes, adjusting alk to be more stable,, cleaning the sump/tank... etc.. then claim new gadget must be the reason! :)

Did you do any of that or just replace the lights and no other change in routine?
Testing and water change routines are the same (maybe even a little less strict). THe appearance, especially with coloration, must be due to the lights.

That's a good point, though.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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With current outlook on global markets and supply chains this whole market is going to shift in the next year or so anyway. Some of these lighting option likely won't exist soon.
This is a good point I hadn't considered.
 

45ZoaGarden

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I did? I must have missed where I wrote that. I must have if you read it in one of my posts. Perhaps then you could be so kind to show where I said that and I will apologise if not I am sure you will do the right thing. Thanks.
Perhaps you can go through the last 10 pages and find it for me ;)
 

Aardvark1134

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I still prefer the high end strips. Reefbrite XHOs and Orphek bars. No boards or fans or fancy controls just a spectrum choice and maybe a dimmer and timer...the true LED version of T5s. Group several together to make the spectrum mix you want...just like with T5s except no bulbs
 

atoll

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Perhaps you can go through the last 10 pages and find it for me ;)
Done that twice just for you but nope, I couldn't find it but seeing you quoted me then you must have found it yourself, right? Must be easy for you to find again surely? You don't think there is any chance I never said anything about "white lab coats" do you and that you could be wrong? Like I said I will apologise if you can show me where I said such a thing. Thanks.
 

oreo54

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Please tell! I’d love to have different lights
Depends what you want it to look like and do.

I hear they once successfully grew corals w/ HPS bulbs..

Has Anyone here heard of useing high pressure sodium lights on a large reef tank? Just curious.

Yes, poor color good growth. My buddy runs a 400watt over his grow tank.
 

Tuffyyyyy

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I still prefer the high end strips. Reefbrite XHOs and Orphek bars. No boards or fans or fancy controls just a spectrum choice and maybe a dimmer and timer...the true LED version of T5s. Group several together to make the spectrum mix you want...just like with T5s except no bulbs
This is something that’s been really interesting me lately. Really interesting idea that seems like it should get more play. I guess the hangup is initial cost. ~6x ReefBrite for a 48” tank is more expensive than going with 6x AI Prime.
 

Aardvark1134

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I never said it was cheap...also they reccomend 1 XHO for each 2 T5s they are replacing. So 4x of them should be like 8xT5s. You should not need 6 on a 120 as that would be the eq of 12x T5s
 

Tuffyyyyy

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But it’s actually more like 1.5x T5. A 48” T5 is 54W and the same size XHO is 72W so you’d need 6 LEDs to equal the output of the 8-bulb T5 fixture recommended for SPS tanks.
 

oreo54

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I never said it was cheap...also they reccomend 1 XHO for each 2 T5s they are replacing. So 4x of them should be like 8xT5s. You should not need 6 on a 120 as that would be the eq of 12x T5s

Think that is a bit optimistic... though it IS possible.
Using 4' as an example..wattage is about the same between the 2
48x1x1.75483654W
XHO listed wattage.
"Lumens per watt" is usually similar (about 90) though lumens doesn't really apply but is a reflection of basic efficiency.

Advantage goes to light delivery by the XHO which will more effectively target the light over the t5 even w/ great reflectors.

Instead of 2 to 1 I'd suggest more like 1.5 to 1..
8 is more on the line. Same as 8 AI Primes wattage wise.


 

oreo54

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But it’s actually more like 1.5x T5. A 48” T5 is 54W and the same size XHO is 72W so you’d need 6 LEDs to equal the output of the 8-bulb T5 fixture recommended for SPS tanks.
How did you sneak by me?.. I must have been typing slow.. but thanks for the support..:)

Where did you get the 72W from? Listed below for 60" but your conclusion is fine.. ;)
 

roblox84

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LEDs are expensive simply due to "street cred"... Just like automobiles, people need to be seen by strangers with the latest and greatest. Go on the classifieds and buy their used LEDs for half price, put the rest in savings.
 
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fish farmer

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This is a hobby, a want rather than a need. Not sure how big this hobby is but it’s rather limited # of buyers.

I keep seeing R&D being thrown out, do you guys seriously think there are men in white coats out there in a sterile lab testing led combinations? There are members on this very forum who diy there fixtures....

Remember lighting is just a slice of the pie, there are other things that are needed to grow a coral as well. You guys should see what costs are added when you add the word “medical” grade to anything, medical grade reception chairs are like ten times the price of a regular chair
Perhaps you can go through the last 10 pages and find it for me ;)


Not a quote by Atoll.
 

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