Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[X-37B]

Alternatively - Yes, it would take about 5 years using the most expensive bulbs to equal prices. Will that LED fixture need to be replaced in 5 years? They lose par over time. MH will just be replacing the bulb still. Also, I used to use the plusrite 400w 20k bulbs and they were beautiful. $10 each. They dont make them anymore. I am trying the catalina 400w 20k right now. $30 each. I fired them and they look really nice so far but dont have the tank yet. Reefbrites are around $80. Also, I used to replace bulbs about every 18 mos, not once a year. Plus, for a lot of people, it's not easy to drop $400+ for a single fixture. Especially if you need multiples.

Had to look up that bulb. Nice!
My xr15 gen 5' are 4 years old and I bought all 6 used. They are still running and par has not changed at all so yea I don't know how long they last.
I run RB photons on my ext 170.
I went with them after researching them and I followed Therman's threads. He has had the running for 10years, so again unknown life span.
My old 120 on Halides and the 18" nano cube on 16hd's, the leds that convinced me leds work quite well.
Both tanks were running at the same time.

 

[rtparty]

Just saw a video on polo reef testing UV and comparing leds to MH. It was interesting.

One of the worst videos ever made on the subject

 

[GeoSquid]

One of the worst videos ever made on the subject

Are there better videos on the subject?

 

[GeoSquid]

Had to look up that bulb. Nice!
My xr15 gen 5' are 4 years old and I bought all 6 used. They are still running and par has not changed at all so yea I don't know how long they last.
I run RB photons on my ext 170.
I went with them after researching them and I followed Therman's threads. He has had the running for 10years, so again unknown life span.
My old 120 on Halides and the 18" nano cube on 16hd's, the leds that convinced me leds work quite well.
Both tanks were running at the same time.

No argument that LEDs do work. I've been using them for the last 6 years. Still think I had better growth with halides.

 

[GeoSquid]

I've also been reading that maybe led lighting might not be good for us. My sister had to remove all led lights in her house. The flicker was causing her severe migraines. Wonder if our fish notice it?

 

[atoll]

This makes no sense. We used what we had available at the time. As lighting evolved so did our choices which is why we saw the use of svho, pc, t5, etc.

Note this isn't a debate about which is better only to 'back in the day' comment. If the same LED's of today are available 'back in the day' we would have used them.

Am sorry if my post makes no sense to you.

 

[oreo54]

Quality LED manufactures give life expectancy and I am sure that is based on their internal testing be it factual duration or combination of modeling and testing results. Kessil on the a365x FAQ page notes 35,000 hours, about 5-7 years, if properly maintained. How that translates to hobbyist depends on their use. Shorter if 100% on vs ramping up, down, and peak hour usage and intensity.

Nothing you don't already know.

Yea.. I also don't consider Kessil the most failure proof brand either.
Heat being the led killer their dense matrix array " could be" problematic.

That said 5yrs ( not counting electricity, heat , heater, chiller endless debates )
could be considered the retail break even point on tech...
Even Kessil can exceed that by at least 2 years

To be honest ..I seriously doubt most aquarium light manufacturers do serious time testing

I've also been reading that maybe led lighting might not be good for us. My sister had to remove all led lights in her house. The flicker was causing her severe migraines. Wonder if our fish notice it?

The 60 Hz flicker is non-existant in reef leds.. Besides the MHz "flicker" of switching power supplies most PWM dimming (cause of flicker) is usually at least 500Hz... going into the KHz range. Now it doesn't mean fish don't notice it but nature has its own "flicker" called caustic lines..

 

[rtparty]

Are there better videos on the subject?

Lots of halides vs LEDs videos out there. At least enough videos on both to draw some conclusions.

Trying to promote UVB as a good thing is ridiculous on so many levels especially when they offered zero evidence of what in our tanks might actually benefit from UVB. Nothing in our systems needs UVB. It is filtered out very quickly in the ocean. The vast majority of fish and corals will never see UVB in their life. To try and tell us we need UVB over our tanks is laughable IMO.

 

[oreo54]

To try and tell us we need UVB over our tanks is laughable IMO.

Unless you have penguins and sea turtles in there.

 

[Kodski]

Lots of halides vs LEDs videos out there. At least enough videos on both to draw some conclusions.

Trying to promote UVB as a good thing is ridiculous on so many levels especially when they offered zero evidence of what in our tanks might actually benefit from UVB. Nothing in our systems needs UVB. It is filtered out very quickly in the ocean. The vast majority of fish and corals will never see UVB in their life. To try and tell us we need UVB over our tanks is laughable IMO.

I'd be very interested about a study on UVB on corals in shallow reefs that would see some amount of UVB. Coming from the reptile world, UVB is required for proper bone development. In stony corals I wonder if there is anything beneficial from UVB that would be similar in biological process.

 

[areefer01]

I'd be very interested about a study on UVB on corals in shallow reefs that would see some amount of UVB. Coming from the reptile world, UVB is required for proper bone development. In stony corals I wonder if there is anything beneficial from UVB that would be similar in biological process.

Why wait, do a search on Dana Riddle and you will find some oceanic studies he did on various things.

 

[GeoSquid]

Trying to promote UVB as a good thing is ridiculous on so many levels especially when they offered zero evidence of what in our tanks might actually benefit from UVB. Nothing in our systems needs UVB. It is filtered out very quickly in the ocean. The vast majority of fish and corals will never see UVB in their life. To try and tell us we need UVB over our tanks is laughable IMO

Well, it's in the sun. It can reach up to 66ft deep in the ocean.

Our scientific evidence is lacking in most things.
Experts said the sun is bad for us and we need to slather with chemical sun blocks. In the 70s skin cancer was 1 in 10,000 people. Now it's 140 in 10,000.
I've been surfing religiously for over 40 years. I've never used sunscreen and still no skin cancer.

 

[X-37B]

No argument that LEDs do work. I've been using them for the last 6 years. Still think I had better growth with halides.

I have found they are about equal. It may require multiple leds vs say 1 250 watt mh over the same area.

 

[areefer01]

Well, it's in the sun. It can reach up to 66ft deep in the ocean.

Probably deeper depending on the weather. Here is a small open water wreck dive that was 114' in Hawaii. WWII plane, F4U Corsair. Lots of coral on the airframe.

Our scientific evidence is lacking in most things.
Experts said the sun is bad for us and we need to slather with chemical sun blocks. In the 70s skin cancer was 1 in 10,000 people. Now it's 140 in 10,000.

I am not sure about that. Population also has increased since then.

 

[GeoSquid]

I am not sure about that. Population also has increased since then

The ratio has increased significantly. Look it up.

 

[GeoSquid]

Are reef leds a lot more expensive to produce than hydroponic grow leds? The prices seem significantly different.

 

[areefer01]

The ratio has increased significantly. Look it up.

I am not saying you are right or wrong just noting that the population has changed both in numbers and age. How much of that plays a role is anyone's guess. That isn't my line of work but seems to change the conversation in my opinion.

I do not look at it as marketing.

 

[CBonito]

Yeah, LEDs work, but I prefer metal halides visually. And yes the manufacturers are crooks.
No doubt about it.

The only thing that sucks about metal halide is the incredible amount of heat or I would still be using them now.

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

Guess who bought out EcoTech, Radion, and BRS a couple years back? Yep. Private Equity; Bertram Capital, and shockingly, prices haven't come down, and innovation hasn't shot up due to monopolizing this small industry.

 

[GeoSquid]

The only thing that sucks about metal halide is the incredible amount of heat or I would still be using them now.

Once I got rid of the halides on my 180 gal, I had to add 2 more heaters. I'm wondering how many heaters I would need on my new 10' tank with leds? I did run a small fan just in mid summer when I had halides.