Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[fcmatt]

When I was looking at lighting a 36” I priced out reef bright 250w MH fixture with their ballast and radium bulbs with hanging kit from brs was around $500. 32” reefbreeders led is $590 and have tank mount options and pulls 230w full blast. Not really dissimilar and I personally prefer the RB to MH alone. RB are used by battlecorals aquaculture and some amazing tanks as well.

Not sure I would be happy with an approx 8 inch wide light source long term. 12 to 13 inches would be minimum for me on a 36 inch long tank that is probably 18 inches wide lets say.

 

[Wildreefs]

This is a hobby, a want rather than a need. Not sure how big this hobby is but it’s rather limited # of buyers.

I keep seeing R&D being thrown out, do you guys seriously think there are men in white coats out there in a sterile lab testing led combinations? There are members on this very forum who diy there fixtures....

Remember lighting is just a slice of the pie, there are other things that are needed to grow a coral as well. You guys should see what costs are added when you add the word “medical” grade to anything, medical grade reception chairs are like ten times the price of a regular chair

Exactly right. And I’m sure there RandD pays for itself in some other fashion. Running a grow out tank for major company so they can produce frags as well.

I’m not surprised at the prices of some units, Just take a look at what people pay for livestock with a name. Anything WWC or cherry doubles the price. The same angel from the Red Sea cost 3 times as much as the indo counterpart (regal)

And no it’s because they cost more, I’ve seen precovid importer lists and Red Sea regals are not much at all more expensive to land here. It’s just when someone puts regal for sale, 10 people as if it’s Red Sea or not. See the name drives the price up.

Ecotech could put out a fish net, call it a smart net. Simple net with fancy colors and sell it for $100 and people will buy it to add to their fanboy collection.

 

[hart24601]

Not sure I would be happy with an approx 8 inch wide light source long term. 12 to 13 inches would be minimum for me on a 36 inch long tank that is probably 18 inches wide lets say.

If you haven’t seen it already. He says one unit for 24” wide is ok and can’t argue with those results. All the colonies grown from frags. People tend to blame lighting for all sorts of problems they have.

therman's 12 year old SPS system...top down shot, starting to enjoy this tank again

Wow!!! That was a huge clam indeed!! Sorry to hear about the loss ... Thanks for sharing

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Fishingandreefing]

I ran 2 jeabo ow25 in my 120 along with 2 tunze 6095. Just picked up 4 used 6105's for $200, a steal.
Replaced the ow25 with the 6105.
No complaints with the jeabos but wont suport china anymore.
They are cleaned and put away for backup.

I agree that this hobby, like any other, can be as exspensive as you want or not.

So many equipment choices we should be so lucky.

Why not support China? So no more 90% of the daily stuffs you will buy? I hope you have a decent income. I really don’t care where’s made, as long as they fit my budget

 

[Waynerock]

I only have a reefer 250 so I don’t have much to cover and went with that tank because Going much bigger meant way more money for everything not just lights, I spent 600 for 3 prime 16’s and 120 for the mounts and feel I got my money’s worth. Could of gone cheeper or way more expensive. I knew the costs going into it and would of not done it if price was going to upset me. Anyone who is blindsided by pricing needs to pull there head out. On the whole it’s not really that bad. You have options, no one needs radions or 1000 plus lights. We choose that, we choose to keep up with the Jones. Can’t really complain my lights even though not high end work very well and If I cant grow corals and be successful with these than more expensive lights won’t help that. I have 2 rifles that cost more than my full set up, hell I have a fully dressed AR-10 that cost is more than my tank! The cool thing about this hobby is we have more options to go cheep or spend a lot. My gun and RC hobby is way worse and I don’t have many diy or cheep options there. If you consider the performance of most lighting options and how long they last we are in a good spot compared to other hobbies. I just crashed and burned an 800 rc 2 weeks ago that I only had for a month. That’s is a waste of money! Everything could always be cheeper but alas 1st world problems

 

[User1]

Do you want to know what p***es me off? It's people feel the need to come to the defense of inflated prices. I equate that to stoking your fireplace with hundred dollar bills to stay warm. And it baffles my mind how people with zero steak in a companies profit feel the need to defend them like they do.

There's no doubt in my mind we pay premium pricing for a lot of these products and price can definitely come down and companies will still profit.

I know this hobby is full of elitist mentalities who like the idea that you CAN'T have what they CAN afford. And that's why you see companies set prices the way they do. There are enough people that willingly pay for it and that drags along those that can't afford it, but want it, "so let's just charge it on the card!"

The word "expensive" is subjective, and so is "worth" and "value". You can't fault someone for questioning the price of led fixtures.

Not really fair - not that you asked. It goes both ways. Those that post these and those that reply regardless of what camp you are in. Doesn't matter if we are talking about our tanks infrastructure or what we place inside be it rock, coral, or fish. True in this hobby or any other. We have lighting options just like we have coral options.

I may not have the latest Gen 5, or Phillips, or Kessil but I can still keep a reef tank with soft, LPS. or SPS corals. Just like I may never have a "insert boutique chop shop coral name here" but I will have coral. It is all about choices. I don't think this has anything to do with the replies. They are just replies and opinions. No right or wrong.

Don't let it get to you.

 

[ajm83]

I think the mount arms take the mickey, sure the light might arguably be worth £365, but how is a bent bit of aluminium with a couple of screws worth £85?

 

[X-37B]

Why not support China? So no more 90% of the daily stuffs you will buy? I hope you have a decent income. I really don’t care where’s made, as long as they fit my budget

Im not getting into a you know what about china.
Search made in usa when you buy something as you might find its made here and supports Americans of all types of ethnicity.
The "I really dont care where its made" reference is pathetic at best as they steal technology of all types from around the globe.
Peace brother and enjoy what works best for you.

 

[Duncan Tse]

Im not getting into a you know what about china.
Search made in usa when you buy something as you might find its made here and supports Americans of all types of ethnicity.
The "I really dont care where its made" reference is pathetic at best as they steal technology of all types from around the globe.
Peace brother and enjoy what works best for you.

Let's keep this thread reef related... You can discuss your political opinions in another forum

Very surprised at how everyone's complaining about costs when we have so many options for lighting and leds from low to high range that can equally grow out thriving corals

 

[Silver14SS]

Very surprised at how everyone's complaining about costs when we have so many options for lighting and leds from low to high range that can equally grow out thriving corals

Sometimes it seems like the issue may be “I want this but not at that price.” Freedom to purchase what you want and for companies to price as they see fit is a wonderful thing.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Except places aren't free to price as they want...that is the main issue with high cost...the stupid MAP pricing on all the major brands. Outlaw MAP price fixing and the price will come down.

 

[Silver14SS]

Except places aren't free to price as they want...that is the main issue with high cost...the stupid MAP pricing on all the major brands. Outlaw MAP price fixing and the price will come down.

They are, they just run the risk of another company (the one requiring MAP) not doing business with them.

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[Aardvark1134]

And since they aren't allowed to advertise the price anywhere including listing on their website or even in the store window how the hell are they supposed to sell it lower and even if they were you would never know unless you are going to walk in 100+ stores and ask how much it is. MAP pricing is an unfortuate way of price fixing without triggering the price fixing laws.

 

[X-37B]

2 lfs in my area sell mp40' one store is $370 the other $270 so what gives. Just trying to understand the MAP thing.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Your Jebaos are pushing 4k gph?

then good for you. My Jebao are dead silent as well and to be honest, just the build quality on the ones I got are not as good as the previous generation, but I can live with that based on the price point. I don’t need to control my pump via the phone, I set it and forget it! it’s $67.99 vs $400? Again, that’s your money, your choice.

 

[Reesj]

I'm Currently considering about creating reef lights brands and doing some research. There are huge gains to be made sepcially for high end products.
Most of the mark up and Cost comes when you incoperate Sunrise, Sunset features that operate on PWM. Then you have to create a nice looking Phone app with individual adjestability for blues UV white etc.. Then for a nice sleek plastic design. Thats where most of the cost comes in. Not for the LEDs. Still huge proifit Margins..

If you buying LED fixtures without sunrise sunset option or a phone app, you should not be spending more than $5 per gallon. At that point even manifactures should be earning huge profits.

Even for a product with all the features I do not think it should cost more than $250 to cover 2 feet of length.

Unless ofc you are paying your employees huge amounts with huge advertising budget with crazy profit margins...

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Again, that's all subjective. Sounds like your friend wont bat an eye at an $80k expense, but the majority of people reading yout post don't even make that in a years salary and for them $800 is a big expense.

My buddy barely makes 6 figures a year. He’s wise with his money and saves up. He invests his money in boats and sells them 2 years later to make a profit. When you budget for your hobby and are wise with your money you can afford things like nice boats or radions.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

I only have a reefer 250 so I don’t have much to cover and went with that tank because Going much bigger meant way more money for everything not just lights, I spent 600 for 3 prime 16’s and 120 for the mounts and feel I got my money’s worth. Could of gone cheeper or way more expensive. I knew the costs going into it and would of not done it if price was going to upset me. Anyone who is blindsided by pricing needs to pull there head out. On the whole it’s not really that bad. You have options, no one needs radions or 1000 plus lights. We choose that, we choose to keep up with the Jones. Can’t really complain my lights even though not high end work very well and If I cant grow corals and be successful with these than more expensive lights won’t help that. I have 2 rifles that cost more than my full set up, hell I have a fully dressed AR-10 that cost is more than my tank! The cool thing about this hobby is we have more options to go cheep or spend a lot. My gun and RC hobby is way worse and I don’t have many diy or cheep options there. If you consider the performance of most lighting options and how long they last we are in a good spot compared to other hobbies. I just crashed and burned an 800 rc 2 weeks ago that I only had for a month. That’s is a waste of money! Everything could always be cheeper but alas 1st world problems

Nice! I used to do rc. Built an 80 mph 1:10 scale bashing truck. Sold it to fund a precision rifle build. Lol that hobby adds up much faster. People complain about an $800 light. There’s riflescopes that cost well over $4k.

 

[X-37B]

My point a few posts back was the lfs that runs radions run all blue. Yesterday was the first time I saw them with the whites cranked up.
It looked better than my 8 T5's.
Not ever seeing them in anything but blue and most recommend running low whites I would have never known.
I ran a black box on my nano and could not turn whites behond 30% or the colors washed out.
Honestly I wish I had the XR30's with a 4 T5 hybid or even the XR30' alone.
The look was MH like, imo, with no shimmer.

 

[Silver14SS]

And since they aren't allowed to advertise the price anywhere including listing on their website or even in the store window how the hell are they supposed to sell it lower and even if they were you would never know unless you are going to walk in 100+ stores and ask how much it is. MAP pricing is an unfortuate way of price fixing without triggering the price fixing laws.

Customers can make offers, businesses can say yes or no. If the seller says no, the customer can buy something else or shop elsewhere. A phone, email, or online chat may be more efficient than going to each physical location.

Nobody is required to purchase MAP items or from vendors who offer MAP products. If it’s an important issue for you, let the vendors you shop with know and maybe they’ll increase their selection of non MAP items. Proponents of MAP say it helps smaller businesses compete with larger ones. If BRS and Marine Depot were not held to MAP, I assume their volume purchasing would allow them to sell for less than smaller shops.

I’m indifferent about MAP, if the price of something isn’t worth it to me, I don’t buy it.