Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[Montiman]

I have decided to chime in with my own thoughts on this issue. Not that long ago when I worked at an LFS the most popular tank size we sold was a 125. We also sold many 120s and 180s but very few nanos. I visited the shop I used to work at today and they told me that they sell hardly any big tanks now. Now AIOs and 40 breeders are their best sellers.

For whatever reason people are getting smaller tanks. I believe it is a combination of better nano equipment and the increased price of large colonies. When the OP speaks of needing 6 lights keep in mind that this may be for people like me with 6ft tanks but now people who would have set up a 4 foot 120 years ago are now setting up a 40 breeder but with the same budget. I have to believe this is a large factor in why light prices have risen.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

How about why is it a wavemaker costs 400 bucks? It’s all mark up and marketing. Why they are able to sell this price? Surprise surprise because people are buying them!

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Don’t forget taxes and tariffs from bringing materials from overseas.

And someone wants all their stuffs to be made here lol. How about $1500 for a XR15 and $3000 for a xr30 pro smh.

 

[Alistairn1]

I think you and the OP might be interpreting the question differently. I didn't see it as to why equipment would cost more than the individual diodes, drivers, acrylic- I think the OP understands the cost of sales, R&D, delivery, importation tarifs, general overhead, etc. Instead, I saw it as a question as to why many of the bigger LED manufacturers are choosing to sell the equivalent of macbook pros and fewer big name led manufacturers are selling the equivalent of dells/lenovos? I think it's a fair point- for every NYOS or Royal Exlclusive Skimmer out there, there is a Reef Octopus so there's a pretty nice gradient of price points. While there are a few mid level LED lights, I mostly see lights targeted to the luxury market on one end and black boxes on the other end. You don't see a ton of manufacturers making the equivalent of black boxes (no frills) with reputable drivers/leds.

This might just be a question of perception, but if I wanted to buy a return pump, I could buy anything from a jebao to a tunze with various big name companies in between. I could choose to spend a bit extra and get a DC or wifi enabled pump, choose my pump based on wattage, size, or noise. Most pumps would deliver equivalent performance, it's what I found to be important to my particular need and I would pay accordingly for the perks or lackthereof. I don't see that same diversity with LED lights.

I’ve always kept tings as simple as possible as if ever I should get a failure of anything then I know the aquarium can cope with any failure! It also enables me to have a buffer window to replace any failed item, some of the equipment have concentrated so much on the tank running itself rather than it being a “hobby” I don’t know about the rest of you but I enjoy testing and interacting with the whole reef and it’s support system!

 

[atoll]

Not necessarily. LEDs run at full intensity until they die. (I'm an Electronics Tech)

Not necessarily. LEDs run at full intensity until they die. (I'm an Electronics Tech)

Am sure I read somewhere of somebody doing testing showing reduced PAR levels after a few years use but perhaps not.
Anybody else recall that?

 

[Reesj]

Its because people are willing to pay a huge amount in a niche field. Also for These producers to make good amount of profits from little amount of buyers, they need to make large profits per unit.

Not necessarily. LEDs run at full intensity until they die. (I'm an Electronics Tech)

This is completelty false. Every Light type has a depreciation curve. LED happen to depreciate only a small amount over time. But its almost a stright line down. By 20000hour mark they have around 90% lumen output while around 40000hour mark its 80%. However thats considering in very good conditions with great maintanance. In normal saltwater circumstances, I bet the rate might atleast be 1.5 higher. (Electrical Engineer here also..)

 

[Billdogg]

Why are some lights so much more expensive than others? You can ask the very same question about any consumer item. Why does my Ferrari cost more than your Ford? Quality of workmanship and materials, marketing, desirability, availability, etc etc etc.

That being said, I started this hobby in the mod 80's using T12 NO bulbs in the fixtures that came with the hood. When I wanted to improve the look, I switched the bulb to actual "marine aquarium" bulbs that cost more than any standard T12 on the market. When I realized that I needed more light to keep my creatures happy I looked into buying better (T12 VHO) fixtures but balked at the price - and I worked part time at a LFS and dated the owner so got a very good price even then. Rather than spend that hard earned $$$, I made my own fixtures and bought Icecap ballasts. That saved me a good deal of cash. I also sold the same fixtures both in NO and VHO at the store to select customers looking to save a few dollars and still be able to keep more demanding animals. Then T12 VHO fell out of favor. I continued using them for another 15 years or so until it just got too hard to find the bulbs I wanted.

When it came time to upgrade my choices were T5, MH, or LED. I was tired of the bulb changes and the lack of controlability that either of the first two options offered so LED seemed to be the best option. I looked into making my own fixtures - I'm far from afraid of DIY - but when I factored in the whole new skill set I'd need to learn and the time I would need to complete the lights to my satisfaction, it seemed that buying plug n play lights was the better choice. I looked at everything from bare-bones black boxes to the top of the line fixtures before making my decision. It took me about a year to finally order my lights. I ended up with a pair of AI Sol blues for my 120 mostly SPS system. Could I have gone with less expensive lights? Sure. But I was at a point in my life where I was not only able to afford the more expensive fixtures, I also wanted them to look nice.

Those lights are still going strong 8 or 9 years later (something that cannot be said about either T5 or MH without numerous bulb changes), although they've been moved to my frag tank. When I needed another set of lights for my DT, I wanted something with even more adjustment than the Sol's so the search began again. I ended up with a pair of Radion XR30 G4 pros and couldn't be happier with them. Did they cost way too much? Maybe. Maybe not.

And FWIW - when I started in the hobby I drove a '74 Plymouth Scamp, upgraded to a Corolla that I drove for 18 years, then a Mazda3 that lasted until it just got too hard to get in and out of, and now, finally, my Ferrari. Oh - wait - I meant Outback

 

[atoll]

There are many people who don't mind paying a premium for quality, fair enough. However, when you don't get what you paid for and have a right to expect then you can't blame people for slating the company esp when it's quite clear they are launching a product not yet fit for market and they must know it. Much is made of R&D costs which is fine until you realise the customer is doing much of it for the company and paying them for the privilege. Would be good to hear the views of some of these companies selling "high end' equipment on the matter.

 

[Pntbll687]

There are many people who don't mind paying a premium for quality, fair enough. However, when you don't get what you paid for and have a right to expect then you can't blame people for slating the company esp when it's quite clear they are launching a product not yet fit for market and they must know it. Much is made of R&D costs which is fine until you realise the customer is doing much of it for the company and paying them for the privilege. Would be good to hear the views of some of these companies selling "high end' equipment on the matter.

Not getting what you pay for is huge!!

Radion g5 xr30 pro is a $800+ fixture, and they just came out with a diffuser for it. I thought the new design was to diffuse the light more?? I would expect the diffuser included with the current price tag the light has.

 

[Aardvark1134]

When led bulb replacements and LED T5 replacements came out I swtithed over about half my house within a year or 2...as as the regular and floresent that were left go bad I have slowly switched just about everything left to LED. I have yet to have to replace a single LED anything ever. My current tank has been on LEDs for about 10-12 years. My next tank will absolutly be 100% LED. But with that said I stay away from echotech anything.

 

[atoll]

Not getting what you pay for is huge!!

Radion g5 xr30 pro is a $800+ fixture, and they just came out with a diffuser for it. I thought the new design was to diffuse the light more?? I would expect the diffuser included with the current price tag the light has.

But this is Ecotech your talking about. The only thing surprising is the PSU/ driver doesn't cost extra and the fact the didn't charge extra for minus. I gave up on Ecotech XR30s and bought Orphecks when I wanted hew lights. OK not perfect but 2 x Atlantic's cost less than 3 x Xr30 gen5s and IMO are a better light. However, you pays your money and there are plenty would would buy the XR30 gen 5s again it seems even with the issues they had had to deal with. Their choice.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Not getting what you pay for is huge!!

Radion g5 xr30 pro is a $800+ fixture, and they just came out with a diffuser for it. I thought the new design was to diffuse the light more?? I would expect the diffuser included with the current price tag the light has.

See, that gets me too. It prob costs them $5 to make that diffuser. Include it in for free so that the buyer has an option to use or not. I mean, you charged $800+ for a product.

 

[ca1ore]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

You know the answer LOL ....

Hobby pricing is driven more by willingness to pay than some calculation of gross and profit margins. Reefers flocked to the Gen5 radions like moths to a flame. Gots to have the latest and greatest .... and ‘look ETM kept the price the same as gen4 .... woohoo’. Could not bring myself to read all the posts here but I’m sure some have noted that as long as enough people are willing to pay $800 plus .... manufacturers will remain thrilled to charge that much.

FWIW, you think reef equipment is expensive .... check out the prices of hi-end audio equipment. Integrated amplifier for $21,000 .... speakers over $50,000.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Ecotech actually developed their spectrum in a laboratory. They conducted various experiments to develop a combination that would grow corals most effectively. So yes, some companies do have men in lab coats testing their lights in laboratories LOL

This is a hobby, a want rather than a need. Not sure how big this hobby is but it’s rather limited # of buyers.

I keep seeing R&D being thrown out, do you guys seriously think there are men in white coats out there in a sterile lab testing led combinations? There are members on this very forum who diy there fixtures....

Remember lighting is just a slice of the pie, there are other things that are needed to grow a coral as well. You guys should see what costs are added when you add the word “medical” grade to anything, medical grade reception chairs are like ten times the price of a regular chair

 

[45ZoaGarden]

I'd agree with this assessment if the luxury LED fixtures lasted more than 4-5 years before diodes started to die. That's what sucks about these fixtures. They generally break well after the warranty period, but well before they make up the cost different between a bulb fixture, a black box, or a DIY. I have one DIY rapidled fixture I built 7 years ago. A diode dies and it takes 5 minutes to replace and costs $3. If your Kessil dies you're out $400.

I have hydra 26’s I bought in 2011 still going strong over my New Waterbox 130.4 after they came off an old tank. That’s running every day for 9 years with zero issues.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Do you want to know what p***es me off? It's people feel the need to come to the defense of inflated prices. I equate that to stoking your fireplace with hundred dollar bills to stay warm. And it baffles my mind how people with zero steak in a companies profit feel the need to defend them like they do.

There's no doubt in my mind we pay premium pricing for a lot of these products and price can definitely come down and companies will still profit.

I know this hobby is full of elitist mentalities who like the idea that you CAN'T have what they CAN afford. And that's why you see companies set prices the way they do. There are enough people that willingly pay for it and that drags along those that can't afford it, but want it, "so let's just charge it on the card!"

The word "expensive" is subjective, and so is "worth" and "value". You can't fault someone for questioning the price of led fixtures.

Yes, they are inflated. We’ve already gotten this point across. AI lights are made by ecotech with the same components. Hydra 32 = $370 : radion xr30 g4 pro= $840. Yes the radion puts out more wattage but it’s the same two puck design with a similar amount of led’s. It’s a niche market and you get what you pay for.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

How about why is it a wavemaker costs 400 bucks? It’s all mark up and marketing. Why they are able to sell this price? Surprise surprise because people are buying them!

Have you actually put your hands on these $400 wave makers and used them yourself? lol they’re worth the cost if you actually try them out instead of reeling and complaining over the price.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Really if you want LEDs and good price that holds up, just go with bar lights. Reefbright and Orphek make great bar lights that provide non shadow coverage like T5s and use LEDs. They also don't have any fans or complicated control boards to go bad. You just have to put the right combination of rows together...just like you do with T5s

 

[45ZoaGarden]

You know the answer LOL ....

Hobby pricing is driven more by willingness to pay than some calculation of gross and profit margins. Reefers flocked to the Gen5 radions like moths to a flame. Gots to have the latest and greatest .... and ‘look ETM kept the price the same as gen4 .... woohoo’. Could not bring myself to read all the posts here but I’m sure some have noted that as long as enough people are willing to pay $800 plus .... manufacturers will remain thrilled to charge that much.

FWIW, you think reef equipment is expensive .... check out the prices of hi-end audio equipment. Integrated amplifier for $21,000 .... speakers over $50,000.

Yup. My buddy just put over $80k of speakers, subs, and amps in his 39 foot nor tech. A boat with 4 mercury 450r’s on the back. Yup. That’s $250k in engines. And people complain about a $800 light fixture that will save them money in the long run. LOL

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Have you actually put your hands on these $400 wave makers and used them yourself? lol they’re worth the cost if you actually try them out instead of reeling and complaining over the price.

The only thing I can say it’s lots of people had problems with them. And to be fair, thing do break but again I can’t justify paying that much. There’s a high mark up there and consumers like you willing to pay, good. That’s your money, you can throw them away if you want but just don’t burn them and it’s against the law lol. I have the freedom to voice my opinion so does your freedom or choice to spend whatever you want and those company love you very much!