Why are Y'all so worried?

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Quietman

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Once you come to accept a certain degree of failure that comes with reefing (and almost everything else) then life becomes much easier.

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vetteguy53081

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I hit up R2R almost every evening to see what all the talk is about...

Anyone noticing over the last few months the Threads of people posting all these worries and concerns they have, is on the rise?

What's up on why a lot of people are worried about the smallest things?



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New and unsure and seeking reinforcement of decisions made or bad advice given. No one wants to make mistakes in any given hobby
 

Crabs McJones

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Same could be said about marriage but you don't see guys posting,

"OMG HELP! my wife left this morning without saying goodbye. I'm worried my relationship is O V E R. I think I will call my lawyer if you guys think I should"

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Jedi1199

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I agree that the majority of it is new people who are doing their best to learn and adapt as they go through this experience. We are SOOOO fortunate today that we have a resource as valuable as the internet. Back in the early 90s when I first attempted saltwater, I had to rely on books, magazines, and LFS staff (the least effective) The biggest problem was, if you don't know the questions to ask, how do you know where to look for an answer? This lack of quality information sources led me to waste a LOT of money, kill a lot of unfortunate livestock, and ultimately give up on saltwater altogether.

As a family, we should be trying together as a team to help guide everyone through this process. We should be doing our best to help them understand not only how to fix their problem, but WHY they have it in the first place. An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure methodology.

Personally I have a lot of sympathy for the newcomers to our shared passion. I am still relatively new to the reef side of aquarium keeping myself. I have had freshwater tanks for decades so I am a lot more resistant to those snap panic scenarios that other people, who don't have my experience, worry about.

I also agree that, while the new technology available to make reef keeping as automated as possible, does NOT make for a better reef. Diligence, patience, more diligence, and a WHOLE bucketfull more patience is what makes a reef great. Did nature build that reef in a day? We ALL want that beautiful tank we see in the videos. It doesn't happen fast. It takes years of hard work and sweat to recreate that. Save your money, LEARN the basics the way nature intended. trial, error, and hard work. You didn't jump on that first bicycle and ride off into the sunset.. you fell, got scraped knees and elbows, and tried again.

Let's all just remember, we all were that newbie once. There are no stupid questions. The only stupid question is the one never asked that kills a tank.
 
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reefinatl

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Filtering through all the advice requires almost as much knowledge as running a tank on its own. Everyone has a system, and everyone is convinced that their system is the best one. From the full-quarantine with multiple tank switches to no-quarantine and just slap some mud in your system (and yes, I realize I'm grossly oversimplifying the extremes of both camps), whatever advice someone espouses you can be sure that someone will give the opposite advice.

In some ways it was easier when we had to read books and experiment to figure out what worked. Less noise, easier to find a signal... with the flip side that it was harder to find successful and useful information that fell outside of the orthodoxy. Nowadays you get EVERYTHING when you ask for advice.
the number of newbs offering other newbs help on forums is scary. Today I saw some guy post his 2cents about a lighting setup and 3 posts later let it slip he doesn't even have a tank set up. Same goes for how great people's lights are at illuminating 1 month old frags and limerock.
 

Jedi1199

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the number of newbs offering other newbs help on forums is scary. Today I saw some guy post his 2cents about a lighting setup and 3 posts later let it slip he doesn't even have a tank set up. Same goes for how great people's lights are at illuminating 1 month old frags and limerock.

This touches on an issue I have had for years with forums. People with zero firsthand experience, advising others based on what they have read (the parrot syndrome).

EVERYONE wants to feel important and validated. Him, her, you, me.. there are no exceptions here. This is a natural state and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Where the problem lies is, not all information given is accurate. If your source is mistaken, then so is your advice. I have always believed that when answering any question you should either relay firsthand experience, or quote your source. Hey, I had this issue once and this is what I did.. or Hey, I read something about your issue here...

Remember, the point of a discussion is to provide viewpoints, not to be the one person who knows everything. Hence the term "Discussion". The more differing viewpoints the better.
 

reefinatl

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@Jedi1199 I think while the classic newb leading newb/blind leading the blind has been the same thing that has been going on since the beginning of the time. Rumor spreading pest infested LFS owners and now newbs on the forum with high post counts and brand new set ups.

You touch on a more recent phenomenon. The instant gratification or instant sps tank. I don't think most of the new people in the hobby realize just how difficult a grown out sps tank is to pull off. It is way more than just numbers chasing and fancy equipment. There is truly an art to it. There are to many unknowns in this hobby and every single tank has slight differences. There is something to be said for cutting your teeth on the easier stuff and slowly coming up. Everyone dismisses things like soft corals and even lps but even a basic softy and lps tank is quite a challenge to maintain long term without algae outbreaks, pests, and really grow and thrive. Jumping into the sps world on day 1 is the source of many failures and freakouts.
 

Lowell Lemon

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And on top of all this another local fish store closed for good...I was worried that would happen! If I am reduced to ordering by Internet I may as well buy in lots big enough for shipment via Delta Airlines. Can you say wholesaler?
 
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Jedi1199

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reefinatl,​


I agree 100%. This is not a hobby for instant gratification. I seriously doubt that any of those fabulous reefs we see here were set up in a month. I am a few months into my own setup and am still dealing with cyano, dinos and hair algae. I personally don't like the idea of chemical cleaning so I am simply putting in my due diligence and waiting it out.

I would love a beautiful sps tank filled with life and fabulous corals, but I know that is beyond both my ability and pocketbook at this time.
 

fish farmer

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@Jedi1199 I think while the classic newb leading newb/blind leading the blind has been the same thing that has been going on since the beginning of the time. Rumor spreading pest infested LFS owners and now newbs on the forum with high post counts and brand new set ups.

You touch on a more recent phenomenon. The instant gratification or instant sps tank. I don't think most of the new people in the hobby realize just how difficult a grown out sps tank is to pull off. It is way more than just numbers chasing and fancy equipment. There is truly an art to it. There are to many unknowns in this hobby and every single tank has slight differences. There is something to be said for cutting your teeth on the easier stuff and slowly coming up. Everyone dismisses things like soft corals and even lps but even a basic softy and lps tank is quite a challenge to maintain long term without algae outbreaks, pests, and really grow and thrive. Jumping into the sps world on day 1 is the source of many failures and freakouts.
This...all day long.
 

reefinatl

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reefinatl,​


I agree 100%. This is not a hobby for instant gratification. I seriously doubt that any of those fabulous reefs we see here were set up in a month. I am a few months into my own setup and am still dealing with cyano, dinos and hair algae. I personally don't like the idea of chemical cleaning so I am simply putting in my due diligence and waiting it out.

I would love a beautiful sps tank filled with life and fabulous corals, but I know that is beyond both my ability and pocketbook at this time.
I just do chemiclean on Cyano. I've yet to see true conclusive evidence for what causes cyano aside from low flow seems to allow it to more easily exist. Everyone has their theory but it seems to exist in 0/0 tanks and nasty tanks, low light and high light, established tanks and new tanks. Chemiclean has worked everytime in every tank with no ill effect. One of the only chemical solutions out there I go to and ironically despite the name it's more of an antibiotic than a chemical per se. Aside from alk/ca/mg dosing approaches it's the only thing I've ever added to any of my tanks. Currently in process of using it to clear out cyano on both my 90g and 13.5g today.
 

Lasse

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The problem with cyano is that it is a lot of different species out there. for the naked eye - they look the same but they are different species thriving in different environment. IME - 70 % of the cases is knitted yo 0/0 environment but the rest can exist in not 0/0 environment (NO3/PO4). In my present tank I have some red cyano that thrives in my GSP and beteen different species. It also show up there corals are damage by neighbours. It looks like the normal red associated with the Oscillatoriaceae family but a microbiome analyze revealed that I indeed had another family present in my aquarium - the family Xenococcaceae

Sincerely Lasse
 

BostonReefer300

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This is one of the most challenging hobbies out there. Think about all the different types of know-how one needs to be a "master reef keeper": chemistry, biology (at least 6 distinct sub-fields), plumbing, electrical---the list can go on all day. Add to that, people need to have a least half a brain, be able to do simple math, and have reasonable common sense and you then you can figure out easily why so many people are panic posting here. Not to mention that if you get things wrong, living things die. There is that.
Anyway, relevant quote from my doctoral advisor years ago: "Never forget that half the world has below average intelligence---if you disagree with that statement, can you guess which side you're on?"
 
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I´m not worried about the questions people have - nobs or not nobs - I much more concerned over many of the answers. They are all between panic - 100 % WC, how could you be as dumb as that, just go fallow at least 8 months, I waited 4 months before any fish was introduced, ju must make the aquarium pest free - otherwise you will end up walking in the valley of the shadow of death for rest of your life - to you will end up fine, there is not something like cycling, just trust seneye, hydrogen peroxide and read this 50 page working thread and if the fish die - read the disease forums.

If i had started my aquatic career during the time of the holy internet - I had run to the forest and hide my self

Sincerely Lasse

^ This all day long.
But as a newb maybe I shouldn't comment.
 

elorablue

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the number of newbs offering other newbs help on forums is scary. Today I saw some guy post his 2cents about a lighting setup and 3 posts later let it slip he doesn't even have a tank set up. Same goes for how great people's lights are at illuminating 1 month old frags and limerock.

Or someone on this forum with something like 16,000 posts offering outrageously flawed "science" about fish keeping and doesn't even keep fish.. yup.
 

HomebroodExotics

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If I spent 10k on a saltwater setup and didn’t know anything about keeping a tank, I’d probably be freaking out constantly as well. I don’t understand why people don’t start out small. If you can’t keep 10 gallons of water somewhat stable good luck doing it with 180 gallons and 50 pieces of equipment that you don’t know how to use. I think the go big is better is just a flawed concept for newbies.
 

Apollo7235

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I obviously can’t speak for the other newbs out there, but I joined this forum, not only for the valuable information, but for the emotional support of fellow, older, more experienced reefers in a potentially rewarding but also potentially very stressful hobby. Without most of you guys, I would have already thrown in the towel and I’m only a few months in.

I know that Google has a lot to say about most things, but sometimes I also question what Google tells me and would rather discuss it with folks who have first hand experience with whatever it may be. Sooooo, I guess that stinks if my newbie posts irritate any of you, but I promise you that’s not my intention and I will more than likely continue to post eye-roll-inducing threads.....and I’m not sorry ;)
 
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Have you ever had a reef tank with no sump and how did it go?

  • YES and it was just fine

    Votes: 381 58.7%
  • YES but it was difficult

    Votes: 112 17.3%
  • NO

    Votes: 143 22.0%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 13 2.0%
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