Why can't I raise my Alk??

[joey123]

This morning I did a 25 gallon Water Change on my Waterbox 220(so probably about 160 gallons of water). I am still dialing in my dosing rates, so tested water before and after. After the WC, my Alk was 7.8. My goal was to get to 8.6, so I looked on BRS calculators and dosed about 103mL of soda ash BRS 2-part. Tested Alk again, and it was 8.1. Waited a bit and dosed 100 mL again, then went for a run. Came back and retested a couple hours later, and it was down to 7.3. I then dosed about 80 mL of KH Coralline Gro(just because I had it around), which is Sodium Carbonate, and that was the bottle's recommendation to bring it up to 8.4. Mixed it in slowly and waited a few minutes and tested--7.3 dkh, still! Argh!

Any ideas what my problem is? Not only do I need to get this sorted out, but I am running out of testing patience and reagent!!!

Thanks for the help. Really trying to sort this out...

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Birdbrains?]

Uhm, that sounds horribly annoying and unfortunately Idk the answer for you. I can only suggest that it must be an imbalance in magnesium and calcium bleeding out the additives practically while you add them in like that?

 

[Bfragale]

What are your calcium and magnesium levels at?

 

[joey123]

Uhm, that sounds horribly annoying and unfortunately Idk the answer for you. I can only suggest that it must be an imbalance in magnesium and calcium bleeding out the additives practically while you add them in like that?

Thanks for your reply. You are certainly correct, unbelievably frustrating...

What are your calcium and magnesium levels at?

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Ca is 350 and Mg is 1360. Was trying to sort out Alk first then go to worry about Mg and then Ca.

This morning before WC- Ca was 420 and Mg was 1340.

 

[joey123]

Should I try to bump up Ca and Mg first then circle back to Alk?

FWIW, despite a kalk stirrer and co2 scrubber, I tend to have Low pH issues as well. Currently sitting at 7.8.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Should I try to bump up Ca and Mg first then circle back to Alk?

FWIW, despite a kalk stirrer and co2 scrubber, I tend to have Low pH issues as well. Currently sitting at 7.8.

Thst should only make any consumption worse.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This morning I did a 25 gallon Water Change on my Waterbox 220(so probably about 160 gallons of water). I am still dialing in my dosing rates, so tested water before and after. After the WC, my Alk was 7.8. My goal was to get to 8.6, so I looked on BRS calculators and dosed about 103mL of soda ash BRS 2-part. Tested Alk again, and it was 8.1. Waited a bit and dosed 100 mL again, then went for a run. Came back and retested a couple hours later, and it was down to 7.3. I then dosed about 80 mL of KH Coralline Gro(just because I had it around), which is Sodium Carbonate, and that was the bottle's recommendation to bring it up to 8.4. Mixed it in slowly and waited a few minutes and tested--7.3 dkh, still! Argh!

Any ideas what my problem is? Not only do I need to get this sorted out, but I am running out of testing patience and reagent!!!

Thanks for the help. Really trying to sort this out...

@Randy Holmes-Farley

what do you think is your daily consumption of alk?

 

[joey123]

what do you think is your daily consumption of alk?

Thanks for your reply. I have relatively few sps and lps, as the tank is just getting off the ground--stocked with fish and inverts, starting to trickle in more corals now.

Here are a few notes--

Earlier this week, I was dosing 72 mL/day which led to a drop of 0.8 dkh over 2 days. After bumping up to 120 mL of Alk/day gave me an increase of 0.7 dkh over 2 days. [I left it at 120 mL, and it dropped by .5 dkh over the next 2 days.] So, I would guess somewhere around 96mL/day, if i ignore the weird last couple days(in brackets above). Assuming i have 150 gallons of water, this means my consumption is equivalent to about 0.9 dkh/day. That seems insane to me, seeing as i have literally 15 stony corals total, and most of those are tiny frags.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

1 dKH is not that much. A soft coral only tank can use 2 dKH per day due to the corals, coralline algae, snails, and lots of other inverts.

Note that the higher you want to keep alk, the more you will have too add every day. Demand rises as alk rises.
I’d pick a reasonable dose and stick with it for a couple of weeks, not trying to adjust every day. then make a small up order down adjusted to the daily dose.

FWIW, 7 dKH is a fine level.

 

[joey123]

1 dKH is not that much. A soft coral only tank can use 2 dKH per day due to the corals, coralline algae, snails, and lots of other inverts.

Note that the higher you want to keep alk, the more you will have too add every day. Demand rises as alk rises.
I’d pick a reasonable dose and stick with it for a couple of weeks, not trying to adjust every day. then make a small up order down adjusted to the daily dose.

FWIW, 7 dKH is a fine level.

Thank you for your input. I will "set it and forget it" for a few days and we will see where we end up.

Thanks again.

 

[Greg P]

I agree to just watch it, and I'd recommend you test once daily and keep a record. Let your tank settle as I believe it can take up to a week for Alk to settle.
Your Ca and Mag are fine for now. Tinkering with them will upset your Alk.

Wondering why you want your Alk so high?
What are your NO3 and PO4?
The higher your Alk, the higher your nutrients need to be for balanced coral growth.
If your tank is kinda new, just settle on getting stability happening first, then worry about chasing numbers later ...

 

[andywe]

This morning I did a 25 gallon Water Change on my Waterbox 220(so probably about 160 gallons of water). I am still dialing in my dosing rates, so tested water before and after. After the WC, my Alk was 7.8. My goal was to get to 8.6, so I looked on BRS calculators and dosed about 103mL of soda ash BRS 2-part. Tested Alk again, and it was 8.1. Waited a bit and dosed 100 mL again, then went for a run. Came back and retested a couple hours later, and it was down to 7.3. I then dosed about 80 mL of KH Coralline Gro(just because I had it around), which is Sodium Carbonate, and that was the bottle's recommendation to bring it up to 8.4. Mixed it in slowly and waited a few minutes and tested--7.3 dkh, still! Argh!

Any ideas what my problem is? Not only do I need to get this sorted out, but I am running out of testing patience and reagent!!!

Thanks for the help. Really trying to sort this out...

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Slow your roll. Let things balance. You dose, wait a day. Are you also dosing Mg and Ca? MG is the "glue"..

 

[ReeferPat]

For what it’s worth (and I’m no expert) there is an imbalance with calcium and magnesium. BRS TV I think had an episode on this. Something along the lines of if your magnesium drops while calcium goes up, Alk will continue dropping. Don’t take my word for it but it was something like that.

 

[Greg P]

For what it’s worth (and I’m no expert) there is an imbalance with calcium and magnesium. BRS TV I think had an episode on this. Something along the lines of if your magnesium drops while calcium goes up, Alk will continue dropping. Don’t take my word for it but it was something like that.

OP's Mag is fine for now, and Ca is within reason. Could be a bit higher, but natural seawater Mag is 1270-1300 and Ca is around 400, so close enough for a start. And neither will upset the current Alk level.
Low Mag will be an issue, but low Ca will not.

 

[andywe]

OP's Mag is fine for now, and Ca is within reason. Could be a bit higher, but natural seawater Mag is 1270-1300 and Ca is around 400, so close enough for a start. And neither will upset the current Alk level.
Low Mag will be an issue, but low Ca will not.

Ca and alk have a combative relationship. Precipitation can occur and lock up in my experience. Major trace elements. I have been wrong before but in over 30 years this is my formula. And the fudge all is even running 7 tanks at the same time at one point, they ALL were different.

 

[JCOLE]

What test kit are you using? Could be a faulty kit.

 

[joey123]

What test kit are you using? Could be a faulty kit.

Thanks for your reply, I'm using red sea pro kit.

 

[joey123]

Slow your roll. Let things balance. You dose, wait a day. Are you also dosing Mg and Ca? MG is the "glue"..

Thanks for your input. The alk was dosed today the first time, settled for an hour, then only yielded the minor increase. I've seen dosing change parameters in that time in the past. Anyhow, after that I did the second dose and then left for a few hours. When I came back, the alk had dropped severely. I agree that I may have done several things quickly, but the issue stands and I'm not sure how this is going on. Doesnt seem to make sense to me.

 

[joey123]

OP's Mag is fine for now, and Ca is within reason. Could be a bit higher, but natural seawater Mag is 1270-1300 and Ca is around 400, so close enough for a start. And neither will upset the current Alk level.
Low Mag will be an issue, but low Ca will not.

Thank you for taking the time to reply Greg. At Randy's earlier suggestion, I have set my calc, alk, and mag to dose 3 mL every half hour, and l will retest at some point tomorrow and then Monday or Tuesday to hopefully get some stability back. These giant swings, and in the direction opposite that id expect with my dosing, really has me scratching my head.

 

[joey123]

Before anyone goes crazy on this, I have the ca and alk staggered in an effort to minimize precipitation.

Thank you for taking the time to reply Greg. At Randy's earlier suggestion, I have set my calc, alk, and mag to dose 3 mL every half hour, and l will retest at some point tomorrow and then Monday or Tuesday to hopefully get some stability back. These giant swings, and in the direction opposite that id expect with my dosing, really has me scratching my head.