Why do bad things happen to good corals?

[alabella1]

For what I can only say - absolutely no reason at all - my frogspawn decided to completed bail out this morning. It was doing great, very fluffy and happy at the bottom of my tank. Not too much light, not too much flow. Nutrients in good numbers... and my 11 torches, 3 hammers, 2 duncans and a host of other zoas, toadstools and ricordea are all doing just fine. why did it do this???

Salinity - 1.026
ALK - 10
CAL - 400
MAG - 1680
Nitrate - 5-10
Phos - .02
Temp - 76

 

[Lemons]

Corals usually don't bail out unless they HATE the water they are in.

Any sudden changes to your chemistry?

Id start watching the euph as well.

And maybe get a water change ready as clearly they didnt like something

 

[Pod_01]

From my experience nothing good happens when you have Alk:

ALK - 10

and PO4:

Phos - .02

I only had dead corals. Some reefers can make this combination work but I do not know what the secret is.

My suggestion is to reduce Alk to 7-8 dKh (over week or two) and feed some good quality coral foods to bring up the PO4 (Reef Roids or FM coral dust).

Here is my Duncan:

In high flow, so not as happy But my Alk is 7.5 and PO4 0.1.
There is also aiptasia bugging him that I need to remove (bonus coral from way back).

Good luck,

 

[alabella1]

From my experience nothing good happens when you have Alk:

and PO4:


I only had dead corals. Some reefers can make this combination work but I do not know what the secret is.

My suggestion is to reduce Alk to 7-8 dKh (over week or two) and feed some good quality coral foods to bring up the PO4 (Reef Roids or FM coral dust).

Here is my Duncan:

In high flow, so not as happy But my Alk is 7.5 and PO4 0.1.
There is also aiptasia bugging him that I need to remove (bonus coral from way back).

Good luck,

Funny... my alk has been super low lately, so I slowly raised it this week to get it up to 10 and I started running my neptune dos to keep it there.

 

[Pod_01]

Funny... my alk has been super low lately, so I slowly raised it this week to get it up to 10 and I started running my neptune dos to keep it there.

High Alk and low PO4 is known bad combination. As I said there are reefers who can make it work but those are exceptions. Also some test kits for PO4 have tolerance of +/-0.02 so you might be at zero.
Also your Mag is high, I prefer 1200-1450 range.
I don’t keep many LPS so not an expert but here are few with my parameters:

General rule, when corrals pack it in 90% of the time it is water related. The other 10% might be parasites, being stung, light or flow etc…

 

[alabella1]

I'm not sure WHY my mag is high. Any idea why? I'm not dosing it. I haven't changed my water in over a month. I use the IO Purple bucket salt. The only things I ever dose are BRS Soda Ash and Phytoplankton.

 

[Pod_01]

I'm not sure WHY my mag is high. Any idea why? I'm not dosing it. I haven't changed my water in over a month. I use the IO Purple bucket salt. The only things I ever dose are BRS Soda Ash and Phytoplankton.

Not sure where your Mg is coming from, but maybe get different test kit to confirm. Mg is generally expensive so not something that is a filler etc….

I am big fan of by weekly 10% water change. It can re balance elements and remove undesirable things that can accumulate over time.

Not familiar with IO salt, I use Tropic Marin or Fauna Marin salt.

 

[alabella1]

Not sure where your Mg is coming from, but maybe get different test kit to confirm. Mg is generally expensive so not something that is a filler etc….

I am big fan of by weekly 10% water change. It can re balance elements and remove undesirable things that can accumulate over time.

Not familiar with IO salt, I use Tropic Marin or Fauna Marin salt.

https://www.instantocean.com/Products/Sea-Salt-Mixes/sea-salt-mixture.aspx

 

[alabella1]

Not sure where your Mg is coming from, but maybe get different test kit to confirm. Mg is generally expensive so not something that is a filler etc….

I am big fan of by weekly 10% water change. It can re balance elements and remove undesirable things that can accumulate over time.

Not familiar with IO salt, I use Tropic Marin or Fauna Marin salt.

It's a fairly basic salt. Decent stable parameters. Best of all, it's super cheap. I usually get a 200gal box for around $40-45.

 

[exnisstech]

Can't help other than to say I mix instant ocean and reef crystals 50/50 and my mag runs 1350 - 1400 on 3 tanks. I have never tested a fresh batch tho I just test the display water.

 

[alabella1]

Can't help other than to say I mix instant ocean and reef crystals 50/50 and my mag runs 1350 - 1400 on 3 tanks. I have never tested a fresh batch tho I just test the display water.

50/50? Interesting!! What does that do for you? I stopped RC because of all the brown residue in my buckets

 

[jkcoral]

What was your Alk at before you raised it to 10 (which, in my opinion, is a little high).

It might’ve had a negative reaction to the Alk swing if it was too much too fast.

Also, euphyllia/frogs/LPS like phosphates. Your tank might be a little lower than it would prefer.

 

[alabella1]

What was your Alk at before you raised it to 10 (which, in my opinion, is a little high).

It might’ve had a negative reaction to the Alk swing if it was too much too fast.

Also, euphyllia/frogs/LPS like phosphates. Your tank might be a little lower than it would prefer.

ALK was at like 7 and i raised it slowly over about 5 days. Phos, I suspect something is eating it up. Sand looking a little red. I hope it's brown... and not red... but hard to tell atm. I may need to dose some phos because I have not changed my water in over a month and that phos is still bottomed out.

 

[exnisstech]

50/50? Interesting!! What does that do for you? I stopped RC because of all the brown residue in my buckets

To be totally honest it saves me money is the only reason. I like to keep a lot of salt on hand and I was able to find both on sale but not at the same time so I stocked up on both. I'm not a big number chaser so there was really no reason as far as parameters one or the other mix to. I have been mixing them for a couple of years and everything is doing good so I just stick with it. It does mix dirty that is for sure but I mix it in a brute garbage can so all the crud stays in there.

 

[alabella1]

High Alk and low PO4 is known bad combination. As I said there are reefers who can make it work but those are exceptions. Also some test kits for PO4 have tolerance of +/-0.02 so you might be at zero.
Also your Mag is high, I prefer 1200-1450 range.
I don’t keep many LPS so not an expert but here are few with my parameters:

General rule, when corrals pack it in 90% of the time it is water related. The other 10% might be parasites, being stung, light or flow etc…

Got the phosphates up and let the alk come back down. That's the good news. The bad news is I've lost some of my favorite torches. I just took all torches (11 w' and without polyps) out and dipped them in coral rx so if it was pests hopefully that will help. I just want this to stop, I've never lost corals like this before, it's pretty miserable. Of course the most expensive ones are going first too. smh.
Parameters as of this morning...

Salinity - 1.026
ALK - 8
CAL - 380
MAG - 1620
Nitrate - 5
Phos - .08-.12
Temp - 76

These re pineapple sponges yes? Nothing to worry about with them? I'm starting to see them everywhere. They are taking up residence on all frags and plugs. If they are going to cause me issues please let me know!

 

[Pod_01]

Got the phosphates up and let the alk come back down. That's the good news. The bad news is I've lost some of my favorite torches. I just took all torches (11 w' and without polyps) out and dipped them in coral rx so if it was pests hopefully that will help. I just want this to stop, I've never lost corals like this before, it's pretty miserable. Of course the most expensive ones are going first too. smh.
Parameters as of this morning...

Salinity - 1.026
ALK - 8
CAL - 380
MAG - 1620
Nitrate - 5
Phos - .08-.12
Temp - 76

These re pineapple sponges yes? Nothing to worry about with them? I'm starting to see them everywhere. They are taking up residence on all frags and plugs. If they are going to cause me issues please let me know!

So I like the Alk value and the PO4 looks good assuming it is becoming stable.
Sponges are always a good sign, I would remove any that are close to coral. They are good sign.
Here is a bit on Mg:

My Mg is always around 1350. Your issue sounds like it is also Mg driven.
Mix new batch of salt and measure the Mg. If in the 1300 range do some water changes to bring it down.


Also your Calc is going dow, I prefer 425. Here is some information on it as well:

I honestly think you are close just need to get the basis stable. From your description Alk and calc is used so the corals are using it.

This is a general recipe I followed in my early days:

It is written by Hans Werner Balling, the developed of the Balling method.
Just a suggestion but going from bad to good should be done slowly, corals need time to adapt.
Bad decisions can take 3-4 weeks to show and the same applies to a good decision.

In this hobby you will always loose corals at the beginning, hence it is always good to start with the cheaper corals, they are easier to care for and easier to propagate and easier to replace. Expensive means they die if you sneeze, your parameters need to be on point.

Good luck,

 

[alabella1]

So I like the Alk value and the PO4 looks good assuming it is becoming stable.
Sponges are always a good sign, I would remove any that are close to coral. They are good sign.
Here is a bit on Mg:

My Mg is always around 1350. Your issue sounds like it is also Mg driven.
Mix new batch of salt and measure the Mg. If in the 1300 range do some water changes to bring it down.


Also your Calc is going dow, I prefer 425. Here is some information on it as well:

I honestly think you are close just need to get the basis stable. From your description Alk and calc is used so the corals are using it.

This is a general recipe I followed in my early days:

It is written by Hans Werner Balling, the developed of the Balling method.
Just a suggestion but going from bad to good should be done slowly, corals need time to adapt.
Bad decisions can take 3-4 weeks to show and the same applies to a good decision.

In this hobby you will always loose corals at the beginning, hence it is always good to start with the cheaper corals, they are easier to care for and easier to propagate and easier to replace. Expensive means they die if you sneeze, your parameters need to be on point.

Good luck,

Tested my mixing bucket. It came back

Salinity - 1.026
ALK - 8.0
MAG - 1380
CAL - still testing

Bet my high mag is really keeping the algae at bay. I've seen little to none. The calc should go up through some water changes as well i would think, but i guess we shall see.