Why don't people run higher temps? (another rant lol)

[Frogger]

Do not confuse the Ocean with vast amounts of fresh clean water to our tiny little closed system water boxes.

The main issue with higher temperatures is the amount of O2 your water can hold. At night time when photosynthesis is in the Calvin Cycle (not producing O2) and all your organisms in your tank are still respiring, your O2 can get dangerously low at higher temperatures especially if you have a heavy stocked tank.

I recently lost several fish because my tank temperature had creeped up to the upper 80's (broken heater and faulty thermometer) and had a heavy bioload of corals and fish. They basically suffocated at night.

Cooler water holds a lot more O2 and more room for error.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I can tell you from a lot of experience that if you start running 86-87 and up for an extended period of time, you are going to start seeing bleaching.

I’ve already tried to play this game.

 

[Frogger]

The other thing to note is as the temperatures in the ocean rise large sections of the worlds coral reefs are bleaching. "Temperature spikes of only 2 to 3.6 degrees can cause these mass bleaching events." (Quote from LiveScience.com)

The temperature of the water in the Persian Gulf can get as cold as 55 degrees for short periods. In the Persian Gulf the ocean is filled with most of the corals and fish that we have in our tanks.
In Japan there are some of the most northerly coral reefs in the world and their temperatures can get quite cold in the winter.

Higher temperatures for extended periods of time tend to be toxic even in the ocean.

Personally I have had a lot more success with maintaining my tanks at 78 degrees than when I was maintaining my tanks at 82 degrees.

 

[Reef2Land]

I live in South Florida. The gulf and Atlantic near the reefs very rarely goes above the low 80s in the dead of summer, and temperature drops as you descend. I highly doubt they are ever in water hotter than 82, and in the winter it is mid/high 70s. Large swings are also much more dangerous than just high temperatures. I'm sure there's some corals in shallow lagoons with higher temps, but the temperature stays that way and the density of corals is definitely lower in these areas.

This is one reason you see alot

This, plus the following two additional points

I don't believe there is any benefit to speeding up a parasites' life cycle unless the tank is being run fallow.

In addition to lower levels of dissolved oxygen, the (theoretically) sped up life cycle should result in larger numbers of parasites appearing in a shorter time frame. These two things combined would most likely accelerate the rate of damage to the host, and give us less time to react effectively...

To me, that's like saying if it has something attacking it for less time it's going to get more damaged. It just means it's going to go through its life cycle faster and drop off into the sand and have less time and cause less damage.

 

[Reef2Land]

According to Cheung (1997) optimal cryptocaryon irritans reproduction occurs at 86F although it stops at 98F.

More recent work by Wang (2017) shows there is little impact in reproduction rate between 72F and 90F in reproduction rate or survival rates of the parasite.

Looking at Amyloodinium Ocellatum studies by Paperna (1984) optimal temperatures range from 74F to 81F. Reproduction rates were slightly slowed between 81F and 86F and dropping off rapidly from there.

Putting this information together makes and I would surmise that a tank running at 82 to 84 degrees would have slightly slower reproduction rates of Marine Velvet but higher reproductive rates of Marine Ich. Based on this I don't see a measurable positive benefit related to parasites unless you can get tank temperatures over 90F. I don't see that as worth the other issues it could cause.

I wasn't referring to the reproduction, only life-cycle. The life-cycle is sped up at higher temps. The life span and how long they hang around is significantly shortened. Overall the math on that would mean the life of the parasite would be significantly decreased as well. So to me, that's like saying a humans reproduction is the same regardless of what temperature but if we only live for 2 days lol then the reproduction rate will eventually be non-existent.

 

[cmcoker]

I wasn't referring to the reproduction, only life-cycle. The life-cycle is sped up at higher temps. The life span and how long they hang around is significantly shortened. Overall the math on that would mean the life of the parasite would be significantly decreased as well. So to me, that's like saying a humans reproduction is the same regardless of what temperature but if we only live for 2 days lol then the reproduction rate will eventually be non-existent.

But 2 humans make 1, maybe 2, offspring at a time. Think more litters of puppies for every reproduction cycle...

 

[6TankReefer9]

I think we need to make a few premises prior to tackling this question. #1 Like it or not, we are just trying to "mimic" the natural oceans, but our tanks will never be as stable as the ocean, or as oxidated as it, so it's hard to isolate one factor (temps) without taking others into consideration. #2 Wild temperature swings do create stress and increases biological processes, evident through algae blooms, greater evaporation/lower oxygen levels, and makes certain parasite/pests more evident. The main question I would instantly follow up with is where is the tank situated and what are the temperature swings within that room? If the room is usually colder than the tank, then nothing is easier than having a heater run at a preset level and let it be, however if the room the tank is situated in such as mine in California- where it goes from 50'sF in the evening to 95's in the day time, the spread is great, and personally I'd rather have a chiller to keep things level and temps stable verse letting things go as is. As I've let my tank go up to 90's for over a month, the fish were constantly hungry, the algae bloom was real, and the evaporation was unreal. So from my personal experience I would say, it's much easier for tank maintenance, look, room humidity, and ease of mind to keep things at a stable level and avoid crazy fluctuations or higher temps. Again, you might find your experience with your tank and livestock might to be different, but in my case, my tank looked better and felt right with cooler temps.

 

[Will West]

You keep on about speeding up parasite life cycles but at the same time you will shorten the life of your fish as well

 

[Reef2Land]

But 2 humans make 1, maybe 2, offspring at a time. Think more litters of puppies for every reproduction cycle...

But it doesn't matter how many offspring anything has if the lifespan is significantly shorter. A lot of people seem to be chiming in on this. Here's a question that can't be Googled - or we couldn't find the answer lol. We know the answer from testing. How long does it take an ich parasite to burrow into a fish and actually cause damage to the point it becomes life-threatening to the host? Because if the life cycle is shorter than the answer to the question based on elevated temps then it's not going to be relevant even if there are millions of parasites.

 

[Reef2Land]

I think this is awesome BTW. Look at this. So many people and so many different variations. It's almost like no real conclusions will ever be drawn because everyone has had a different experience. One person says it will bleach out SPS, while another saw increased growth. One person says it won't speed up the life-cycle of marine ich, another person says it does. This really is a great board because it gives people the ability to be prepared and go "Hey I read this on Reef2Reef" and no matter what the answer is they can recall a scenario that can help. It's giving people almost every solution to every problem.

BTW One other issue with higher tank temps is that it can also send your clams into breeding if they're big enough.

 

[dantimdad]

What is involved in sending them to a facility for post mortem??

I called the number where auburn used to answer questions about anything and asked. They had someone call me back. I had frozen 6 of them. I packed them in ice and fedexed them. That was 1996.

 

[Oliver d]

Here in the Middle East my tank some time in summer gets to 30.C \86 F.If my chiller is not switched on and I have never suffered any Ill effects.

 

[DaNkness]

Interesting topic! I have several tanks all running different temps due to the area of the house they are in. I think several good points were mentioned above but not of all I think they all come back to stability and a safe zone. I’ve noticed when my 30 gal cube spikes from 76-83 on a hot day the corals do not like it but when the temp slowly climbs over summer , so long as their is good surface agitation, the corals tolerate 83+ just fine. I recently just set up a horse troph in my central Texas garage for growing out softy colonies and the daily temp is by far my biggest concerns but I’ll be following this thread and posting my findings down the road!

 

[Bando]

I know the parasite, and O2 levels are important considerations for temps but are we really missing the most practical benefits of lower temperatures?

Does it not follow that (in Nano's):
Lower temps leads to lower evaporation
This lower evaporation leads to more stable salinity
Thus a healthier environment.

 

[SDK]

This is one reason you see alot


To me, that's like saying if it has something attacking it for less time it's going to get more damaged. It just means it's going to go through its life cycle faster and drop off into the sand and have less time and cause less damage.

The parasite still has to develop to the same state to complete its life cycle, so an accelerated cycle just means it will pull the same amount of nutrients out of the host in a shorter time. The same damage will be done in an accelerated time frame.

The next wave will be coming back faster as well. It’s not like they drop off more quickly and are just gone.

As mentioned in my post you quoted, this will all be happening in an environment with less dissolved O2. This will further degrade the hosts ability to cope with anything that affects respiration.

 

[Brew12]

I wasn't referring to the reproduction, only life-cycle. The life-cycle is sped up at higher temps.

This may be true of some parasites, but not for marine Velvet especially. It's reproduction rate does drop once you get into the mid 80's along with a lower reproductive success rate. It's less clear for Ich based on the studies I have seen.

 

[Brew12]

The parasite still has to develop to the same state to complete its life cycle, so an accelerated cycle just means it will pull the same amount of nutrients out of the host in a shorter time. The same damage will be done in an accelerated time frame.

This isn't necessarily true. Temperature can impact the size the parasite will grow to prior to leaving the host and will directly impact the number of daughter parasites that are hatched in the next generation.

Your second point is spot on though. The faster they work the each generation the more long term (days as opposed to hours) damage will be done to the fish.

 

[jd371]

My tank fluctuates DAILY between 78 to 82 f. It’s a 65 gallon mixed with acros and I have never lost a single piece. At this point I’m sure that my livestock has adjusted to the temp swings and it’s one less headache for me to worry about. I just avoid extremes. I was stationed in Panama for a few years and personally observed water temperatures on the Atlantic and Pacific coasts swing 20 degrees daily for months and everything on the reefs did fine.

Glad to hear because I recently set up an anemone tank and the tank gets swings like this because of the room it's in. I'm stressing about the summer months because it will probably go higher than 82, hopefully the fan that kicks on if it goes over 82 will be sufficient to cool it down a bit.

 

[Junkie]

My thinking on the mater is that higher temps hold less dissolved O2 which in turn results in lower PH. Lower temps equals higher O2, increasing PH.

 

[Jacob Fawley]

Besides the possible ill effects of running a tank at higher temperatures, I'd like to save some water. And DI resin.