Why don't WE set prices?

minibowmatt · Jul 13, 2006

I am getting a little tired of all the price gouging going on with the zoos lately. It seems like this forum has attracted some of the premier zoo propagators on the net, and WE have the power to change the pricing... if we want. We are controlling an enourmous amount of awesome color morphs right now, and I think it would be great if we stopped selling them outright, and only traded. Personally, I do not sell my top zooanthids. I will only trade. I have sold palin zoos for 15-30$ but that was just to recoup the money spent aquaculturing them. I didnt call them rare or anything, just what they were.. nice zoos. I am wondering how the rest of this group feels about refraining from selling the awesome morphs, and just trading for zoos of appropriate worth to you. This will help to lower the prices we see on ebay and RC and thus making more awesome zoos available to everyone. There is no reason that only people with deep pockest should own the armegeddons and PPEs of the ocean. I know we all want to own that *rare* morph, but what good is it really?

I dont really know where i am going with this, its kind of a rant, so I will take my lashes now, but realize, I just want to help the hobby and see more awesome colors in everyones tanks.

Let the flaming begin.

ecotoxlady · Jul 13, 2006

I certainly like your idea but also know that like in your case when you sold the palin zoos (what are these by the way?) when we do sell hard to find morphs it is to try to recoup our investment in this hobby for that coral or to help pay for upgrades, etc. I would love it if everything were trade based but just wanted to give my counterpoint about this. As you may or may not know, I've never sold hard to find morphs and have only sold a couple of things at $10 or $20 shipped so I completely understand where you are coming from and in an ideal world, we wouldn't have to sell our stuff as we'd be able to trade for eveything we need but alas it isn't the real world.

ficklefins · Jul 13, 2006

I think his palin zoas might actually be plain zoas.

twon8 · Jul 13, 2006

this problem will arise: if we stop selling, prices will only go up more, as the supply of cool morphs will diminish. I do like your idea of a zoaschtaepo, and i have thought that a small group of influential collectors would have the ability to set price points. I usually sell frags for 15, but some stuff is worth more than that, both in what i paid for it, but also my time fragging and maintaining my tanks. I'm probably not charging enough.

ecotoxlady · Jul 13, 2006

Ahhh :lol:

surfn · Jul 13, 2006

i like this idea. and has been one of the major objectives behind creating these forums.

the main problem i have, is someone setting the standards for how a specific morph is priced.

i can accept things sold on ebay, b/c the prices arent set (in most cases), and the person who wants to pay the most, will get it, which i think is completely fair.

i have only sold 1 rare morph on ebay, which i didnt like to do, but needed the money pretty desperately in order to cover the costs of trading with others here on this forum. so i see it as a good investment.

and i've gone on record, and told people on this forum to NOT bid on my auction on ebay, or i will slap them upside the head b/c i wont take their money, and would gladly do a trade with them for it once i have enough.

minibowmatt · Jul 13, 2006

Yeah I meant Plain zoos!
ecotoxlady, I dont mean to single you out, as I know we all think the same way, but when I buy a colony, the price I paid for it is in my opinion an accepted monetary loss (loss to my income). If you (and again I dont mean just you

) spent money on a colony, why do you have to frag some off to sell? why not just use the colony to help trade and get more zoos? It is easy to think "if i buy x colony at 50$ (super deal) I can frag off 10 polyps and get my money back" Why not just accept the 50$ loss and say It was worth the money paid? That way we arent perpetuating the super high prices.

I realize the scenerio I set in the above post would only work in an ideal world, but I wanted to hear what you all have to say...

Marine Flora · Jul 13, 2006

Matt,

I see where your coming from... but there are just too many hobbyists out there. Its like trying to boycott gas bc of the inflated prices. It isn't going to happen. There are people that don't care, willing and do pay those prices.

my .02 cents

Sam

surfn · Jul 13, 2006

Marine Flora said:
Matt,

I see where your coming from... but there are just too many hobbyists out there. Its like trying to boycott gas bc of the inflated prices. It isn't going to happen. There are people that don't care, willing and do pay those prices.

my .02 cents

Sam

very true. take a look at the zoas on reefermadness. i mean seriously, if you bought 5-10polyps of RPE's off reefermadness for $150, and then bragged on this site of what you got....i slap you upside the head for being stupid :lol: :lol:

but there are still people who would rather pay those prices b/c they can, and that makes them feel more special i guess. also, the name of the place they buy them from (whether it be atlantis aquarium, fragfarmer, or reefermadness), make them feel like the higher prices are justified by buying them from one of the top dealers.

ecotoxlady · Jul 13, 2006

minibowmatt said:
Yeah I meant Plain zoos!
ecotoxlady, I dont mean to single you out, as I know we all think the same way, but when I buy a colony, the price I paid for it is in my opinion an accepted monetary loss (loss to my income). If you (and again I dont mean just you ) spent money on a colony, why do you have to frag some off to sell? why not just use the colony to help trade and get more zoos? It is easy to think "if i buy x colony at 50$ (super deal) I can frag off 10 polyps and get my money back" Why not just accept the 50$ loss and say It was worth the money paid? That way we arent perpetuating the super high prices.

I realize the scenerio I set in the above post would only work in an ideal world, but I wanted to hear what you all have to say...

Matt, like I said, I've never sold stuff other than a couple common morphs for $10 - $15 with shipping included, I was just trying to say that we invest such a large amount of money into this hobby so when I see someone selling PPE or whatever rare morph they have if they are alos open to trades and don't price gouge I look at it as them trying to pay off some of the expenses they incur in this hobby. Now, to give an example, we all know and love Rev and he traded off most of his PPE for other morphs but am I going to fault him for selling some as well? Absolutely not!!!!! I think there are situations where we have to sell stuff just to be able to afford the expenses of this hobby. I don't know where you come from financially but I am dirt poor. For the last 5 years I've been paying my way through school and have an opportunity to take on a PhD where again I'll be receiving little money. I'm not gonna give up this hobby because it's expensive and I'm not going to try to take advantage of a fad and sell things for gouging prices but at the same time, if I can reach a point to have some of my nicest morphs grown out, I'm going to follow in Rev's example and trade what I can and sell a few as well. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to get up on a soapbox and you certainly have a right to your opinion but I was just trying to say there are times I think that selling rare morphs is justified. I didn't blame surfn for sellinghis stuff and he sold one of the rarest morphs out there in my opinion but he did it to be able to afford some of the other costs of this hobby and I think that is justifiable. Just my opinion mind you

minibowmatt · Jul 13, 2006

Im sorry Ecotoxlady I missed the part where you said you never sold, but I really dont fault anyone for selling either, especially if they are trying to afford other zoos etc. I just wanted to make the point that If we dont sell, I think prices would go down. The thing is, only a few people have these morphs right now. sooner or later, those (not us) who sell will run out of frags, and the market will crash. at that time, we could come out and start trading or even selling for a much lower price making morphs more affordable for all.

as for my finances-- I am not well off either. I varey rarely buy anything. I trade or DIY everything. there was a time I made a lot of money on ebay selling other stuff (not reef related) and I was able to buy anything I wanted. Now I use that stuff to trade for what I want.
Please dont take offense at my comments. I was just playing devils advocate so to speak.

twon8 · Jul 13, 2006

they arent' going to run out of frags, the increased prices will only draw more people into the business of chopping up wild colonies to sell as frags. the way to bring prices down is for everyone to sell frags. And even if all 51 of those registered on here got together, would that even be 1% of the us zoa trading/selling population?

your idea that by not selling prices will go down is flawed economically. markets don't work that way. supply and demand settles all.

twon8 · Jul 13, 2006

and a zoa market crash would be if there were an oversupply and a lack of demand.

minibowmatt · Jul 13, 2006

hrmmmm yeah, your right....
cant you tell Im not an economics major!

twon8 · Jul 13, 2006

I think the best way for us to influence the market is by collectively determining which zoas are the HOT zoas. I am certain that if a few of us starting talking up a particular zoa, we could generate a large demand. Why are ppe's so desired? because of word of mouth. If the first ten people who registered on club zoa started some buzz about a zoa i have that "is on the top of their want list" i am certain i could charge 20+ a polyp. it would have to look cool, but beyond that there are enough people who follow popular tastes that i would run out quickly.

Maybe we should have a club-zoa LE Zoa of the Month, a great way to get the word out on zoas. we could even vote on it, or I can pick it for you guys. I'lll have frags available at the unveiling;-)

twon8 · Jul 13, 2006

minibowmatt said:
hrmmmm yeah, your right....
cant you tell Im not an economics major!

No worries, i am one of the few.

Reefwifey · Jul 13, 2006

There are some people out who will pay that price because they want cool zoas, and that usually takes either two things 1)A buff collection to trade with or 2)money to buy with. Since I'm probably one of the newest here to this hobby, I think I can see why people will pay the money, some of us have free-er cash and not that great of trading collection yet. We arn't all starving college students, and we arn't all smug enough to knit pick other people's trades yet either.

Just wanted to put another point of view out there, not everyone who pays large amounts for zoas is stupid. I personally love the trading community, but I'm also an independant person who doesn't like depending on other people to hook me up with a good collection.

Shultz · Jul 13, 2006

The market for anything will always dictated by supply & demand, clever companies supply just enough....

Look at RPE's a few months back these were going for silly money per polyp, now with a lot more people having frags to trade the price has tumbled.....

As said by others some people are always willing to pay a premium to be first in the queue for bragging rights, or purely to try & make some money themselves whilst the market is hot....

Cheers Shelton.

surfn · Jul 13, 2006

good point. i got my RPE's a year and a half ago, at $5 per polyp from the person who was selling them (even though i got them for free

)

friends of mine thought that price was absurd.

then i know of someone who attended MACNA back last fall/winter, and they were easily willing to pay $20/polyp on the spot for them.

and they were the exact same thing