The hobby expensive because we are making it so

gbroadbridge

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This is just a rant and I realize it’s not going to change a thing and yes I’m aware of the economics of supply and demand. Please note if you see a reference to something you may have posted, it is not a personal attack on you and I will not be mentioning any names. I’m using what’s been posted simply as a reference to justify my standpoin

The hobby expensive because we are making it so…

I say this not because I don’t want to spend money on the hobby, I say this as we are pricing the average hobbyist who are the ones who will continue this hobby, out of the hobby.

Now I realize this hobby is not what it was when I stopped following the “latest and greatest” in equipment, lighting, and everything else. I can easily just say, well I remember when a small colony of hammer or torch or frogspawn was $50 for 8-10 heads. I realize this is not realistic to expect the the same 10 years later.

With that said here are my issues:

Corals - What the heck is going on with the pricing? I’m not saying the cartoon names, as I understand the reasoning behind it. I’m saying since when is a half inch frag worth $500-$800? I say this after reviewing a “flash sale” and nothing I clicked on was below $300. Yes I’m well aware of plenty of other vendors that do not price this high but still $70-$100 per frag is well outrageous.
Now that’s not to say it may or may not be some rare species or slow grower that deserves the price but I mean seriously.
Well okay, those are vendors, they’re out to make money, fine.
I now turn to us “hobbyists”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read, “well my tank is an investment” or “I only frag to recoup the cost of running the tank and last year I sold $16k in coral”. I’m sorry but if your tank is costing you $16k a year, you really have something wrong with your tank.
I also see a lot of the “Well it cost me “x” so I’m not selling it for less” like these deformed mushrooms we call “bounce mushrooms”. $500/less than 1/2 inch frag. Seriously? That’s just ripping off the hobbyist.
I can guarantee that if I was to ever get one of these mushrooms (it’d have to come cheap), I’m not going to frag it out the moment it gets 1 inch big. I’ll let it multiply on its own and sell them for cheap. No labor involved other than removing from the rock. There’s no reason a mushroom, a freaking mushroom, one of the most prolific growers in home aquaria, should cost $500. At most maybe $100 for a full single mushroom that has some super color variant.

Based on current market value, I supposedly have close to $2k in coral in my tank with my “Firemouth” Green Rhondactis Mushrooms and Neon Green Toadstool and Indo Hammer. I have no plans on fragging any of it because my tank is not an investment. My tank is for my enjoyment.

Okay fine, tell me to find local hobbyists who are out there to help you out. “Many local hobbyists will just give away frags”. Please tell me where these hobbyists are cause they aren’t local around here or in the selling forum here.

Now I understand that there is plenty of reason for increased cost due to import/export bans, Covid, inflation. However, I would say, a large percentage is “captive grown” now, with certain exceptions obviously, so captive grown should reduce the cost, I would think.

Anyway, if we continue to price gouge, this hobby will become what all the “true collectors” or “investment hobbyists” want. One that only the 1% can afford.

Go ahead flame away. I can feel it coming. Bring on the heat! It’s already 80 degrees and humid as all get out outside anyway
I guess when people started buy houses as investments, rather than as homes, it spread like dinos to other hobbies
 

Frostblitz20

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I’m still trying to figure out why torches are above 200$ a head when they are not uncommon anymore as it’s one of the most posted about in the hobby for sale as they branch into new heads which makes them easier to frag…
 

jhuntstl

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I came back into the hobby recently after 8 years. I've been blown away by the prices. Honestly it's laughable what some LFSs in my area are trying to sell some coral for. Want to set up a ezpz soft coral tank? Be prepared to spend a **** load for colonies of kenya, xenia, and gsp. I guess they sell often enough to newbies to justify their prices.

I've made it a point to buy $10-$40 SPS frags. A tip for everyone. All of these prices are negotiable, especially if you're buying multiple frags. My last LFS visit I purchased an ORA Green Planet, Flower Pot Monti, and I believe a German Blue Acro for $50 + tax. These were all fairly chunky frags. If they refuse, go elsewhere. Don't pay stupid prices. I know for a fact most of the frags I bought were from local hobbyists trading for store credit. Their profit margins can handle some negotiation.
 
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Reefing102

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I came back into the hobby recently after 8 years. I've been blown away by the prices. Honestly it's laughable what some LFSs in my area are trying to sell some coral for. Want to set up a ezpz soft coral tank? Be prepared to spend a **** load for colonies of kenya, xenia, and gsp. I guess they sell often enough to newbies to justify their prices.

I've made it a point to buy $10-$40 SPS frags. A tip for everyone. All of these prices are negotiable, especially if you're buying multiple frags. My last LFS visit I purchased an ORA Green Planet, Flower Pot Monti, and I believe a German Blue Acro for $50 + tax. These were all fairly chunky frags. If they refuse, go elsewhere. Don't pay stupid prices. I know for a fact most of the frags I bought were from local hobbyists trading for store credit. Their profit margins can handle some negotiation.
I do this a lot. Some I’ve been to are firm but one I go to semi frequently, I’ll ask the cost and alot of times they’ll say around X. I can usually negotiate about 10% off of X
 

Paul B

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I never get these "Expensive Hobby" threads. I know I am doing something wrong because I spend close to nothing on this hobby.

Corals are expensive but you buy it and in years it is huge and a couple of them fill your tank. Powerheads last many years, I have some from the 70s. I agree lights are garbage but even the worst ones last a couple of years and I get them for a hundred bucks.
What are people "wasting" money on?"

The majority of the fish we keep live between 10 and 20 years so if you have to use ASW that is an expense but I change water 3 or 4 times a year so no big deal. If you like to change it daily, it will be expensive and wasteful. ;Facepalm

Food costs a little and I supplement my food with clams from a bait shop which are dirt cheap and I raise white worms for free.

I just don't get it. ;Meh
 
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Reefing102

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I never get these "Expensive Hobby" threads. I know I am doing something wrong because I spend close to nothing on this hobby.

Corals are expensive but you buy it and in years it is huge and a couple of them fill your tank. Powerheads last many years, I have some from the 70s. I agree lights are garbage but even the worst ones last a couple of years and I get them for a hundred bucks.
What are people "wasting" money on?"

The majority of the fish we keep live between 10 and 20 years so if you have to use ASW that is an expense but I change water 3 or 4 times a year so no big deal. If you like to change it daily, it will be expensive and wasteful. ;Facepalm

Food costs a little and I supplement my food with clams from a bait shop which are dirt cheap and I raise white worms for free.

I just don't get it. ;Meh
I can understand that. I guess part of it for me is the lack of patience. I seem to have a lot more than some newer reefers but a lot less than those older than me. So I want more instant gratification.
For me the other part of it is the initial up front cost. Once the tank is established, I would agree cost is minimal. It’s that initial set up cost.
 

BeTreyed

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I'm "new" in the hobby. I've been out for 10 years or so. I was on a college income at that time and the hobby was certainly not cost prohibitive at that time. Coral prices were much cheaper, designer clowns and corals were just tapping into the market. I simply didnt buy those. Realistically, I was able to reef cheap because people sold used equipment cheaper at that time it seemed, they weren't trying to get as close to sticker price as possible from their used equipment. It was used. Most if the time you'd step inside to check out the tank, they may sell you a cheap frag or if you were new they'd cut you off a piece of their nuisance coral like GSP or Xenia. DIY was huge at this time as well, broken and old equipment was recycled to create a different product, LEDs were just hitting the market, so if you really wanted an LED fixture you'd probably be building it with a bunch of CREE LEDs.

To jump into the hobby you could start with a 10g, build your own rock, use play sand for your tank, seed it with a single piece of live rock and cups of sand from others tanks. Critter packs, and coral packs, etc.

The hobby has seemingly changed a bit, and certainly I am generalizing here, I know not everyone is this way. The one thing I can say is the community is still thriving. It's still possible to reef on the cheap, but the information for reefing on the cheap is buried by information of the massive dollar drop to start one by the big box stores.

I think it's definitely still possible to reef on the cheap, you just gotta know where to be able to cut these corners to save some money, and sadly that information is harder to find.
 
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Reefing102

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I'm "new" in the hobby. I've been out for 10 years or so. I was on a college income at that time and the hobby was certainly not cost prohibitive at that time. Coral prices were much cheaper, designer clowns and corals were just tapping into the market. I simply didnt buy those. Realistically, I was able to reef cheap because people sold used equipment cheaper at that time it seemed, they weren't trying to get as close to sticker price as possible from their used equipment. It was used. Most if the time you'd step inside to check out the tank, they may sell you a cheap frag or if you were new they'd cut you off a piece of their nuisance coral like GSP or Xenia. DIY was huge at this time as well, broken and old equipment was recycled to create a different product, LEDs were just hitting the market, so if you really wanted an LED fixture you'd probably be building it with a bunch of CREE LEDs.

To jump into the hobby you could start with a 10g, build your own rock, use play sand for your tank, seed it with a single piece of live rock and cups of sand from others tanks. Critter packs, and coral packs, etc.

The hobby has seemingly changed a bit, and certainly I am generalizing here, I know not everyone is this way. The one thing I can say is the community is still thriving. It's still possible to reef on the cheap, but the information for reefing on the cheap is buried by information of the massive dollar drop to start one by the big box stores.

I think it's definitely still possible to reef on the cheap, you just gotta know where to be able to cut these corners to save some money, and sadly that information is harder to find.
I can get on board with this too. I know back when I started and left, for most, used equipment was used and generally sold around 50% of sticker unless it was practically new.
Now used equipment is “like new” even though it’s 1-2 years old and around 10-20% off sticker unless someone is trying to get rid of it quick.
One other issue is some of our “cheap” ways of the past have become just as expensive. Cost of dry rock (from a vendor) for example. Used to be could buy it $1-$2/lb back then now it’s based on the type of rock and up to $49.99 (BRS) for a 6-13lb piece.
However if you do have patience to wait it out for that one deal or sale or dig deep in research, you can definitely reef on the cheap
 

dwair

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I'll agree that I make this hobby expensive, but not in coral terms, for me its equipment. I like playing with new stuff. For example, over my 24" cube I have an AI Hydra 32, perfectly fine, but I'm looking to upgrade to the ATI Straton. I Like the panel style LED lighting rather then the little black box that is the AI Hydra.

Do I need it? God no. But I've always been under the impression you get what you pay for and its served me rather well. Everytime I've bought cheaper, I've had issues. When I spent the money the first time, it usually worked quite well.

Granted none of this applies to Coral, cause thats a whole different ballgame.
 

Paul B

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Coral rock is of course expensive. I collected all my original rock in the sea many years ago but over the years I gave it away because I like the "rock" I build better out of PVC and cement. Again for almost free.
I can build it as big and ornate as I like and it's fun and part of the hobby for me. :)
 

Uncle99

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In my area, these high end corals are not selling.
I note over the last couple of months, high end torches are now being discounted, well, let’s call it back to reasonable.

I wanted a reddish/orange with pink tip torch.
Price $299 per head.
Reduced to $179.
Reduced to $99.
Sold!
 
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I'll agree that I make this hobby expensive, but not in coral terms, for me its equipment. I like playing with new stuff. For example, over my 24" cube I have an AI Hydra 32, perfectly fine, but I'm looking to upgrade to the ATI Straton. I Like the panel style LED lighting rather then the little black box that is the AI Hydra.

Do I need it? God no. But I've always been under the impression you get what you pay for and its served me rather well. Everytime I've bought cheaper, I've had issues. When I spent the money the first time, it usually worked quite well.

Granted none of this applies to Coral, cause thats a whole different ballgame.
That’s no problem at all. I get the you get what you pay for.
 
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Reefing102

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In my area, these high end corals are not selling.
I note over the last couple of months, high end torches are now being discounted, well, let’s call it back to reasonable.

I wanted a reddish/orange with pink tip torch.
Price $299 per head.
Reduced to $179.
Reduced to $99.
Sold!
I can see that slowly occurring in my area too. I’ve found a couple sites with reasonable (but still too high for me) prices. We have a store in the Columbus area that has probably 8 or so heads of torch that are marked $199 with their annual 50% off sale making them $100 and no one was looking at them
 

Montiman

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For me the problem isn't frags. There are plenty of beautiful common coral frags that can be had at affordable prices. A perfect example is the fact that I brought home a bright orange chalice frag that I spent $70 on. When I got home my wife asked why I bought a coral I already had. She was referring too the orange plating monti that I have had for years and often give pieces away from. Objectively the orange monti is as attractive as the chalice but retails for $10 at the LFS not $70 for the same size frag. For a beginner just buy the monti. I often ask are the crazy bounce mushrooms really any more attractive than Florida Ricordeas? Not to me.

What is a bit of a bummer is the increasing cost of LPS colonies. I have recently been looking for some LPS for my sand bed. It seems Wall Hammers, Bubble Corals, Lobos, Scolys, Fungias, Cynarinas, Trachyphillia, and elegance corals are all out of my price range. I would love to pick up a tennis ball sized white bubble coral for $70 but I can't find one. Everything is close to a $150 and up.
 
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I can say I’ve seen that one too. Other LPS that were a bit cheaper last year are going way up. I think part though is I’m not sure how many bubbles or trachys or others you mentioned have the ability to be aquacultured vs wild caught with so many bans or limits in place
 

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I recently just got back into the hobby and you are right on the coral and fish prices rising dramatically. I wondering it is to off set the decreases in equipment cost, hear me out. Back when I first go into having a mixed reef tank like 10+ years ago corals were cheaper like 25 a head for classic hammers and frogspawn and torches, diddnt seem like there were many special color varieties at the time but to get led lighting that worked was around 1000 bucks for my little 75 gal tank so instead I went with t5. Now though for example when I started back up 6 months ago I got two led lights the viparspectra (I know not the best, but better then any t5 light) for 200 bucks and I don't have to spend 150 bucks every 6 to 8 months on bulbs. Just a thought. Plus when I got back into the hobby there are crazy things that were completely unaffordable as the tech became more readily available. For example dc pumps that you can control flow. Wave makers that are decent for under 100 bucks. I mean protien skimmers seemed to stay the same price but if ya take care of it mine from 10 years ago still works great. But the point that vendors are selling coral at higher prices to off set the cheaper and more online available equipment. I mean think about how many times you have to run to the lfs to get anything for your tank besides live animals. Not that I'm saying it's right to charge insane prices bc I would have spent alot more money then I have so far if they did bring the prices down.
 
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I recently just got back into the hobby and you are right on the coral and fish prices rising dramatically. I wondering it is to off set the decreases in equipment cost, hear me out. Back when I first go into having a mixed reef tank like 10+ years ago corals were cheaper like 25 a head for classic hammers and frogspawn and torches, diddnt seem like there were many special color varieties at the time but to get led lighting that worked was around 1000 bucks for my little 75 gal tank so instead I went with t5. Now though for example when I started back up 6 months ago I got two led lights the viparspectra (I know not the best, but better then any t5 light) for 200 bucks and I don't have to spend 150 bucks every 6 to 8 months on bulbs. Just a thought. Plus when I got back into the hobby there are crazy things that were completely unaffordable as the tech became more readily available. For example dc pumps that you can control flow. Wave makers that are decent for under 100 bucks. I mean protien skimmers seemed to stay the same price but if ya take care of it mine from 10 years ago still works great. But the point that vendors are selling coral at higher prices to off set the cheaper and more online available equipment. I mean think about how many times you have to run to the lfs to get anything for your tank besides live animals. Not that I'm saying it's right to charge insane prices bc I would have spent alot more money then I have so far if they did bring the prices down.
Fair point. My only issue (granted it could be due to my own lack of being an informed buyer) is how many of the equipment manufacturers are also coral resellers (unless there’s parent companies I’m not aware of that own both). Yes equipment can last long if taken care of, so for long term the cost is minimal. But I do like your last statement, if things were cheaper, I’d likely be spending more but it’s likely a quantity to cost comparison.
 

littlebigreef

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This was always a rich man’s hobby, especially when keeping coral, up to the late 90’s and early 00’s. LED tech made keeping smaller reefs possible without the need for chillers and such. A world of possibilities opened up.

As a community we have a better understanding of organic chemistry, coral nutrition and medication. We have access to things like Hanna checkers and you can now get a refractometer for $30 delivered next day. Above all else you have BRs (and formerly marine depot) that can get you the specialized tools you need no matter where you live. So, the barrier has never been lower.

Stocking your tank on the other hand is another matter. Prices have increased across the board to import stuff be it fish or coral. Collection facilities open and close. Supply chains are some what of a mess.

Which brings me to the OP’s grip. It’s the old Champaign on a beer budget. There’s plenty of folks that offer common stuff for next to nothing, you just gotta seek them out. As for the high end stuff if you take care of something, propagate it and sell it, you deserve to be rewarded.

No one gives me a replacement when something dies, no one is up with me dipping stuff at 1am when something is sick. People see the big price tag on some of this stuff but fail to take into account all the work that goes into making it possible. People want responsibly sourced (aquacultured) stuff, be it fish or coral, then you have to pay a little more. You want the best of the best? Then you gotta pay for it. Now, the OP did mention live sales. Look, live sales are an open joke. Especially when you compare their regular prices a few weeks before or after their sales with the supposed ‘list price.’ Caveat emptor.

As a zoa collector I’ll add this: for most people buy stuff because you like it (or love it!) not because you think you’re gonna get something outta it.
 
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I haven’t read all replies so excuse me if my post is redundant or offense to anyone. About 8 months ago I lost nearly every coral in my tank. While I was letting everything “settle “ I did not venture into a LFS or look online at anything. There was no need. Yesterday I went into one of my local LFS’s and was shocked to see a yellow tang for $100. Two years ago I paid about $30 (if memory serves me right). Talking with the manager he indicated that the prices of fish has skyrocketed. Of course, there are many reasons for the increase in prices and I do believe we are greatly responsible. But I do believe you’re correct and I’m also sure there is a way to do this hobby fairly cheaply.

@BestMomEver do you still have your tank? Are you still located in Alabama?
 

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