The hobby expensive because we are making it so

[Cina05]

Tidal Gardens is in Copley Ohio if you're close enough to them to drive (i wouldlove to visit their facility). I'm new to reefing, but I think they have some reasonable prices and their frags shipped well for me, and I'm in Texas. Most online places offer free shipping if you buy over a certain amount, so I tend to buy more at once vs a few here and there when I buy online. IMO the cost of shipping ($30-40) is worth the safety of the corals for overnight shipping. I just made a big purchase on ebay from WWC's live event. I got 17 frags and with $40 shipping it turned out costing me an average of $17 a frag and about 3 hours of my time bidding on frags when the sales were about to end. I'm not saying the hobby is cheap, but it's definitely as expensive as you make it. Look for fb groups too if you haven't already. In Houston and SE TX area there's at least 4 reefing communities on FB. There's an aquarium society and reef specific community groups online locally, I'm sure there's something in a reasonable distance in OH.

Definitely the equipment was an expensive investment though, even second hand, so I hope it lasts. I've gotten the best deals on equipment and livestock/ corals from people getting out of the hobby or upgrading equipment. Some just in fb marketplace, not even in a reefing community page. It's a time investment too if you want to catch deals. Happy reefing!

 

[Reefing102]

So I actually sold everything before a move and actually had people telling me I was “selling myself short”. I was actually trying to help the hobby out. Sold everything. $1500 worth of just corals in 4 hours. And do u know who the folks were? Local suppliers that then turned around doubled and tripled my prices on fb and to lfs. Was I disappointed, yes. Did I do my part, yes. Can I blame them for not sharing my ideas? Kinda I guess. BUT, that is capitalism and the American dream at its finest. Do I get this rant, yea, selfishly. Here I am after the move and wish I had all my stuff, or had someone sell me stuff for a steal

I think those reefers are out there but I think it’s more rare than people think unless you’re from a big city

Map pricing helps keep local fish stores in business, they make much higher profits on map items. That's how amazon drives small businesses out of business, they drop the price so that they are making pennies or a loss and small businesses cant do that. The map pricing prevents the amazons of the world from doing that, the LFS doesn't have to try and compete on prices with huge corporations that have lots more buying power. That is part of the point, to eliminate price wars that LFS can't win. or Maybe, but either way LFSs benefit and i find that MAP pricing isn't all bad.

Honestly didn’t look at it that way. A unique perspective.

Tidal Gardens is in Copley Ohio if you're close enough to them to drive (i wouldlove to visit their facility). I'm new to reefing, but I think they have some reasonable prices and their frags shipped well for me, and I'm in Texas. Most online places offer free shipping if you buy over a certain amount, so I tend to buy more at once vs a few here and there when I buy online. IMO the cost of shipping ($30-40) is worth the safety of the corals for overnight shipping. I just made a big purchase on ebay from WWC's live event. I got 17 frags and with $40 shipping it turned out costing me an average of $17 a frag and about 3 hours of my time bidding on frags when the sales were about to end. I'm not saying the hobby is cheap, but it's definitely as expensive as you make it. Look for fb groups too if you haven't already. In Houston and SE TX area there's at least 4 reefing communities on FB. There's an aquarium society and reef specific community groups online locally, I'm sure there's something in a reasonable distance in OH.

Definitely the equipment was an expensive investment though, even second hand, so I hope it lasts. I've gotten the best deals on equipment and livestock/ corals from people getting out of the hobby or upgrading equipment. Some just in fb marketplace, not even in a reefing community page. It's a time investment too if you want to catch deals. Happy reefing!

I’ll have to take a look. They’re 1.5 hours from me so would be worth the drive over shipping. I plan on going to Reefer Madness in Cleveland next month (the show put on by Reefing USA by Eye Candy Corals), so may need to stop by there

 

[GeoSquid]

It is a little expensive, but not horrible. I still treat it like a fish tank, not a ferrari. I have a 180 gal tank going on 4 years, built an in wall cabinet myself. I have maybe ~2k into the whole thing, including corals and fish. I DIY all the filtration. I have a couple ATS's (nothing easier to build than water and light on a plastic screen). Macro algae in surge tanks in the overhead cabinet. Made most my rock out of concrete. DIY skimmer....I mean air injected into a tube shouldn't cost $500+ - insane! Two black box led's, sunsun wavemakers, amazon pond pump, all working continuously for 4 years. Now, I only keep softies - Most bought from local reefers. My most $$$ fish was $80 (Clown Trigger). DIY also keeps it interesting, there is always something you can make better or different.

 

[Reefing102]

Looks like tidal gardens is currently closed to the public due to Covid. Even prior to Covid you had to have an appointment

 

[bpbonds]

There are a ton of ways to save Money in this Hobby, there are plenty of budget friendly options for any type of reefer out there. Here in Arizona I have several LFS stores including one that sells used equipment and tanks, not to mention online Selling options for Frags and livestock. If you have deep pockets sure you can spend all the money you want for the best of the best equipment and Livestock, but you can also be a budget friendly reefer and enjoy the hobby just the same with very little investment. I am on my 7th Saltwater Aquarium and its the first time I bought a new one all the others were used with used equipment, I always have a budget in mind, it is what works for my to enjoy this great hobby.

 

[RedSeaReefer1]

This is just a rant and I realize it’s not going to change a thing and yes I’m aware of the economics of supply and demand. Please note if you see a reference to something you may have posted, it is not a personal attack on you and I will not be mentioning any names. I’m using what’s been posted simply as a reference to justify my standpoin

The hobby expensive because we are making it so…

I say this not because I don’t want to spend money on the hobby, I say this as we are pricing the average hobbyist who are the ones who will continue this hobby, out of the hobby.

Now I realize this hobby is not what it was when I stopped following the “latest and greatest” in equipment, lighting, and everything else. I can easily just say, well I remember when a small colony of hammer or torch or frogspawn was $50 for 8-10 heads. I realize this is not realistic to expect the the same 10 years later.

With that said here are my issues:

Corals - What the heck is going on with the pricing? I’m not saying the cartoon names, as I understand the reasoning behind it. I’m saying since when is a half inch frag worth $500-$800? I say this after reviewing a “flash sale” and nothing I clicked on was below $300. Yes I’m well aware of plenty of other vendors that do not price this high but still $70-$100 per frag is well outrageous.
Now that’s not to say it may or may not be some rare species or slow grower that deserves the price but I mean seriously.
Well okay, those are vendors, they’re out to make money, fine.
I now turn to us “hobbyists”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read, “well my tank is an investment” or “I only frag to recoup the cost of running the tank and last year I sold $16k in coral”. I’m sorry but if your tank is costing you $16k a year, you really have something wrong with your tank.
I also see a lot of the “Well it cost me “x” so I’m not selling it for less” like these deformed mushrooms we call “bounce mushrooms”. $500/less than 1/2 inch frag. Seriously? That’s just ripping off the hobbyist.
I can guarantee that if I was to ever get one of these mushrooms (it’d have to come cheap), I’m not going to frag it out the moment it gets 1 inch big. I’ll let it multiply on its own and sell them for cheap. No labor involved other than removing from the rock. There’s no reason a mushroom, a freaking mushroom, one of the most prolific growers in home aquaria, should cost $500. At most maybe $100 for a full single mushroom that has some super color variant.

Based on current market value, I supposedly have close to $2k in coral in my tank with my “Firemouth” Green Rhondactis Mushrooms and Neon Green Toadstool and Indo Hammer. I have no plans on fragging any of it because my tank is not an investment. My tank is for my enjoyment.

Okay fine, tell me to find local hobbyists who are out there to help you out. “Many local hobbyists will just give away frags”. Please tell me where these hobbyists are cause they aren’t local around here or in the selling forum here.

Now I understand that there is plenty of reason for increased cost due to import/export bans, Covid, inflation. However, I would say, a large percentage is “captive grown” now, with certain exceptions obviously, so captive grown should reduce the cost, I would think.

Anyway, if we continue to price gouge, this hobby will become what all the “true collectors” or “investment hobbyists” want. One that only the 1% can afford.

Go ahead flame away. I can feel it coming. Bring on the heat! It’s already 80 degrees and humid as all get out outside anyway

Couldn’t have said this any better. The prices on coral are getting ridiculous. And the only reason that’s so is because people keep paying for this inflated prices so naturally they will keep going up and up. Sellers are thinking if this guy just paid $300 for my frag maybe the next will pay $350…or $400…maybe someone will even pay $500 for my frags! And people do. Another problem is that even local hobbyists are turning to online vendors to price their corals and the online vendors are so inflated that even the local hobbyist pricing at half of their price is even ridiculous

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I’ve found my local Facebook groups seem to be just as bad as vendors. We had a local hobbyist in the past month or so trying to sell hellfire torches for $500/head. I simply laughed and moved on. The issue I’ve found here is my truely local LFS does not get in coral (will special order) due to not knowing how to properly care for it, but it seems there aren’t any truely local hobbyist around. Most are 1hr plus away. Our local reef club hasn’t had an operational website in over a year or so. So yea. Idk. Like I said just ranting.

Call it a rant. Not much in my area and closest

I’ve found my local Facebook groups seem to be just as bad as vendors. We had a local hobbyist in the past month or so trying to sell hellfire torches for $500/head. I simply laughed and moved on. The issue I’ve found here is my truely local LFS does not get in coral (will special order) due to not knowing how to properly care for it, but it seems there aren’t any truely local hobbyist around. Most are 1hr plus away. Our local reef club hasn’t had an operational website in over a year or so. So yea. Idk. Like I said just ranting.

Call it a rant or what ever. There are not any local clubs for me that are good and the lfs are 2 plus hours away. Was not long ago I could buy good size colonies for what a small frag goes for. I don't buy expensive frags as most end up looking better than when I buy them.

 

[Reefing102]

Couldn’t have said this any better. The prices on coral are getting ridiculous. And the only reason that’s so is because people keep paying for this inflated prices so naturally they will keep going up and up. Sellers are thinking if this guy just paid $300 for my frag maybe the next will pay $350…or $400…maybe someone will even pay $500 for my frags! And people do. Another problem is that even local hobbyists are turning to online vendors to price their corals and the online vendors are so inflated that even the local hobbyist pricing at half of their price is even ridiculous

This is what I’m seeing a lot locally is the hobbiest pricing their frags like an online vendor.

Now it seems with patience and dedicated looking you can find the deals as @DaneGer21 posts some. Just saw one of his newest ones lately for BTAs was just late to the party on those. But they aren’t that frequent around here.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I wonder what is going on here,
Back in 2006- 2012. I was buying coral colonies from LA. They would all ship in fine. They stayed with me until I had to move in 2017.
Now, I am scared to order a colony (2-4"). It seems they die during shipping. Not to mention a lot of torches I have purchased.

So, could some of these prices be due to shipping issues to cover for the costs death of others being refunded?

Edit: A side note, I have seen too many driver's abuse shipped live stock. I think this could be causing the corals to suffer as well. I now greet the delivery person to try to prevent some of this.

I am currently 6 hrs away from home and I am making sure I buy some corals. No just to save shipping cost but my six hour drive will be easier on them than next day UPS

 

[Goaway]

This is what I’m seeing a lot locally is the hobbiest pricing their frags like an online vendor.

Now it seems with patience and dedicated looking you can find the deals as @DaneGer21 posts some. Just saw one of his newest ones lately for BTAs was just late to the party on those. But they aren’t that frequent around here.

maybe you can get some stuff from DaneGer. Looks to be in your area.

I am currently 6 hrs away from home and I am making sure I buy some corals. No just to save shipping cost but my six hour drive will be easier on them than next day UPS

Now if my near 3 yr old would enjoy a nice long car ride, I would gladly travel for some coral buys and site seeing. He doesn't like long car rides.

 

[Goaway]

Have the prices been slowly rising for certain corals or did they rise after covid?

It's been this way for years. The only thing I can suggest is get to know other reefers. We are the only people who can battle the price bug. We already have examples of people who don't give in. But than we have those who buy the cheap corals and resale them for a profit.

 

[fish farmer]

Plus, how is it Chinese knockoffs are that much cheaper than brand name. Sure there are definitely some parts differences but when there’s a $300+ price difference, I just don’t see it. At least in halide, the starting difference was $100 or so. But yea, the manufacturer price fixing, I mean “MAP Pricing” has got to go.

Labor costs perhaps? Cheap overseas labor.

 

[Guy714]

It’s similar to the current housing market, the more you pay for a piece of property, the higher the next one will go up

 

[Reefing102]

It’s similar to the current housing market, the more you pay for a piece of property, the higher the next one will go up

Totally relate to this one lol the neighbors house sold last June for $189k and they just resold it earlier this month for $215k

 

[Costareefer]

I'm not sure what you're rant is, just buy within your means. I am happy with $40 frags, not tempted at all by the $500 frags. You mention the "hobby" in your title, but you're only talking about the fancy designer corals, which is a niche part of the hobby IMO. I have actually seen the price of inverts, and some fish, come down in the past few months. I think aquarium equipment is way overly expensive, this is where we are taken advantage of, since we all need equipment, but no one needs fancy named corals.

i think he’s talking about things that were once typical not being outrageously priced. He used hammer and torch as an example. He’s right. People’s tanks have become money making machines and the newbies who don’t know the actual value of a coral are paying the price

 

[chaostactics]

People will buy anything _______ doodle these days because they are too dumb to understand they're paying for a genetically scrambled mutt. People get bound up in the hype and just feed the fire.

Just sit back and watch and pick your corals from local club members based on color and preference and not names.

 

[stacksoner]

This is just a rant and I realize it’s not going to change a thing and yes I’m aware of the economics of supply and demand. Please note if you see a reference to something you may have posted, it is not a personal attack on you and I will not be mentioning any names. I’m using what’s been posted simply as a reference to justify my standpoin

The hobby expensive because we are making it so…

I say this not because I don’t want to spend money on the hobby, I say this as we are pricing the average hobbyist who are the ones who will continue this hobby, out of the hobby.

Now I realize this hobby is not what it was when I stopped following the “latest and greatest” in equipment, lighting, and everything else. I can easily just say, well I remember when a small colony of hammer or torch or frogspawn was $50 for 8-10 heads. I realize this is not realistic to expect the the same 10 years later.

With that said here are my issues:

Corals - What the heck is going on with the pricing? I’m not saying the cartoon names, as I understand the reasoning behind it. I’m saying since when is a half inch frag worth $500-$800? I say this after reviewing a “flash sale” and nothing I clicked on was below $300. Yes I’m well aware of plenty of other vendors that do not price this high but still $70-$100 per frag is well outrageous.
Now that’s not to say it may or may not be some rare species or slow grower that deserves the price but I mean seriously.
Well okay, those are vendors, they’re out to make money, fine.
I now turn to us “hobbyists”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read, “well my tank is an investment” or “I only frag to recoup the cost of running the tank and last year I sold $16k in coral”. I’m sorry but if your tank is costing you $16k a year, you really have something wrong with your tank.
I also see a lot of the “Well it cost me “x” so I’m not selling it for less” like these deformed mushrooms we call “bounce mushrooms”. $500/less than 1/2 inch frag. Seriously? That’s just ripping off the hobbyist.
I can guarantee that if I was to ever get one of these mushrooms (it’d have to come cheap), I’m not going to frag it out the moment it gets 1 inch big. I’ll let it multiply on its own and sell them for cheap. No labor involved other than removing from the rock. There’s no reason a mushroom, a freaking mushroom, one of the most prolific growers in home aquaria, should cost $500. At most maybe $100 for a full single mushroom that has some super color variant.

Based on current market value, I supposedly have close to $2k in coral in my tank with my “Firemouth” Green Rhondactis Mushrooms and Neon Green Toadstool and Indo Hammer. I have no plans on fragging any of it because my tank is not an investment. My tank is for my enjoyment.

Okay fine, tell me to find local hobbyists who are out there to help you out. “Many local hobbyists will just give away frags”. Please tell me where these hobbyists are cause they aren’t local around here or in the selling forum here.

Now I understand that there is plenty of reason for increased cost due to import/export bans, Covid, inflation. However, I would say, a large percentage is “captive grown” now, with certain exceptions obviously, so captive grown should reduce the cost, I would think.

Anyway, if we continue to price gouge, this hobby will become what all the “true collectors” or “investment hobbyists” want. One that only the 1% can afford.

Go ahead flame away. I can feel it coming. Bring on the heat! It’s already 80 degrees and humid as all get out outside anyway

There are a lot of sleazebags vendors in this hobby,that's for sure.

For what it's worth, there are some wholesome, sincere vendors who really care about their client's success in the hobby. I'm talking about the ones that take the high road and are genuinely good people. I think these folks are the only reason why many of us haven't quit....these folks need to make a living and good money attracts intelligent, reliable, good people.

 

[RedSeaReefer1]

Look someone actually paid for this lol. And the person who posted it said “price is firm no trades!”

 

[Reefing102]

It’s insane in the torch world nowadays. That one for me could stay in that tank.

 

[pelicansreef]

I agree with some of your rant, However, a lot of things have gone up like mad in the last few years. My wife stopped at the local McDonalds to get the grandkids some lunch (3 pre 10 year old's) Lunch cost $26.00. I guess because they are paying their help $12 per hour. Auto Mechanics are getting $30 per hour and the dealership wants $800 to put $50 brake pads on my truck. House prices are going up faster that the Amazon space rocket and customer service has gone to hell in a hand basket. People are acting like they have lost their minds in airplanes and other public places. It seems like everyone is at someone's throat about their personal agenda.

Truly, civility is at a low point. However, there are a heck of a lot of really great people in this hobby. Some of them are LFS owners and some are just the reefer next door. You have to look for them and then stick with them and support the LFS that goes out of their way to help you. Understand they have to make a profit to be able to stay in business and that means they have to charge a price that accounts for their rent, employee wages, livestock losses etc.