Why No Reef-Safe Ich treatment?

Mustbenuts

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The best and safest way to stop ich is to have your water return from the sump placed above the water level; this way it will break the water surface and create a better gas-exchange leading to more oxygen in your water. It's very simple. completely reef safe and has NEVER failed me in my 10 years of aquarium maintenance provider!
 

melypr1985

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What is you bases, just for decision?

Well, the ick life cycle is well documented and we do see this all the time here. So that part's easy. The rest is the fact that polyplab medic doesn't contain the chemicals capable of killing ick in the amount needed to cure the fish. I hate to just repeat Humble here, but he already stated (and I agree considering the contents of this product) that while it may kill the free swimmers, it doesnt' stay active in the water column long enough to kill all of the free swimmers before even one attaches to the fish, therefore continuing the life cycle.

It's good for an "ick management" system because it might knock out a portion of the free swimmers which would help manage the population of the parasite in a tank, but it won't get them all. I hope that explains it well. :)
 

melypr1985

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The best and safest way to stop ich is to have your water return from the sump placed above the water level; this way it will break the water surface and create a better gas-exchange leading to more oxygen in your water. It's very simple. completely reef safe and has NEVER failed me in my 10 years of aquarium maintenance provider!

How does more O2 in the water kill ick? Can you explain this further?
 

jsker

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This is a long read but interesting and explanatory
Saltwater ich (ick), or "white spot disease" is one of the most common diseases that infect marine fish in home aquariums. It is caused by Cryptocaryon irritans, and for the purpose of this article will be referred to as Cryptocaryon. This disease is similar to freshwater ich and is often confused with another common saltwater disease called oodinium (velvet). Infection with Cryptocaryon has several distinctive traits that can help with proper identification, which is necessary for correct treatment and prevention of this disease.


What is Cryptocaryon

Cryptocaryon is a fully ciliated protozoan that is present in all saltwater environments, and is particularly prevalent in marine aquariums, aquaculture ponds, and in import and wholesale holding environments. The protozoan is considered an external parasite and is so widespread that many fish that enter the home aquarium market have had a good chance of being exposed to it at some point in their handling. The protozoan penetrates the skin and gills of the fish, and depending on the immune status of the fish, can cause symptoms as mild as just a few small white spots to more severe symptoms including severe irritation, loss of appetite, lethargy, severe respiratory distress, and death.

Why do fish get Cryptocaryon?

Cryptocaryon is a parasite, and like most parasites it is very prevalent in the environment of the species it normally infects. Therefore, most wild fish are exposed to low levels of this parasite fairly frequently and are able to effectively fight off the infection without becoming seriously ill. What happens in an aquarium fish, however, is very different than what happens in a wild fish. In the wild, the number of free-floating Cryptocaryon per 100 gallons of water is extremely small. Whereas in a home aquarium with a relatively small volume of water and a concentrated population of fish, the number of Cryptocaryon has the opportunity to explode into a number hundreds of times higher than what would ever be experienced in the wild. The other thing that happens in a home aquarium is that the level of stress has the potential to be much more severe than what is found in the wild.

Almost all marine aquarium fish are wild harvested, and in a period of several days their lives change dramatically. They go from living on the reef to being collected, handled, shipped, and re-handled repeatedly. When those fish finally enter the home aquarium, they are then subject to yet another change in water parameters, diet, temperature, and environment and may even be subject to aggression from existing tank mates. To say the least, these fish are severely stressed to the point that their immune system may not be functioning properly, making them very susceptible to infections and parasites like Cryptocaryon. In an existing tank in which the fish are healthy, the introduction of a new fish or a decrease in water quality or temperature fluctuations may stress the fish to the point that the Cryptocaryon protozoans that were present but not creating problems will then rapidly cause a more serious infection.

Identifying Cryptocaryon

ill_fish_ich.gif

A. Cryptocaryon
B. Amyloodinium
C. Brooklynella

Cryptocaryon is not too difficult to identify because of the characteristic white spots present on the body and gills. If the infection is concentrated in the gills or is in the early stages, the fish may show irritation, respiratory distress, and lethargy without having any visual spots. As the disease progresses, the white spots will begin to develop until they reach a size of .5 - 2.0 mm. The spots have a tendency to appear on the pectoral fins first and the fish may swim with folded or clamped fins. As the disease progresses, the spots will become more wide spread and the eyes may become cloudy and secondary fungal infections may appear on the skin. The infection may begin in only one fish, but will often spread to other fish and can infect every occupant in the tank. Without treatment, the disease may progress until fish begin to die. Many fish that are older and have been exposed to the disease and survived, or fish that have strong immune systems will develop only minimal symptoms and recover. Amyloodinium is another disease that has similar symptoms and is often confused with marine ich, but is more severe and fatal than Cryptocaryon. Amyloodinium creates white spots but they are smaller and more widely spread than Cryptocaryon, and Amyloodinium more often causes respiratory distress and rapid death. Brooklynella is another parasite which can cause white spots, but these are generally quite large. Invertebrates, fortunately, do not get Cryptocaryon infections.

The life cycle of Cryptocaryon

Understanding the life cycle of Cryptocaryon is very important in effectively treating or preventing the infection. Cryptocaryon is an obligate parasite, which means that it cannot survive without a period of growth on a fish. Once the original parasite attaches to a fish, it burrows into the skin where it feeds and grows for 5 to 7 days. During this time, it is very irritating to the fish and the characteristic white spot develops. The protozoan then breaks out of the cyst and is called a tomont. The tomont swims freely for 12 to 18 hours until it produces sticky opaque material and creates a cyst, which then attaches to a rock, coral, glass, etc. A tomont then starts dividing until it produces up to 200 daughter cells called tomites. This process is temperature dependent and can take from 3 to 28 days. When the tomites have finished dividing and are mature, they are then released into the water. They then develop cilia and begin to swim through the water looking for a host. These free-swimming organisms are called theronts. They will only live 12 to 18 hours if they do not find a new host fish to attach to and start the cycle over again. The completion of the entire life cycle can be between 9 and 40 days and is temperature dependent. The warmer the water the faster the cycle occurs, and most likely is complete in a couple of weeks in most home aquariums. However, there are some reports that indicate that despite being at a warmer temperature, there may be other variables that make the multiplication process take longer than two weeks, which is why some experts recommend a slightly longer treatment period.

Treating Cryptocaryon

Copper: The treatment for Cryptocaryon is fairly straight forward provided the cause of the stress is corrected. By far, the most popular and effective treatment is copper. There are a variety of copper products available for use in the home aquarium, most of which will provide proper treatment, if used at the correct dose. Copper can be very toxic at very low amounts to invertebrates and can never be used in reef tanks or tanks with invertebrates. Copper can also be toxic to marine fish, if not given in the correct dose. A copper ion test kit that can accurately measure the copper level in the water is critical for maintaining the correct copper levels when treating with copper.

There are two main types of copper; ionic copper and chelated copper, so make sure the test kit matches the type of copper you are using. Copper is quickly bound to any calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate based rock, sand, or gravel in your tank, so if you do not treat in a bare bottom tank, the copper levels could potentially change daily. The water should be tested several times the first day and then daily after that. The recommended dose for ionic copper formulas is between 0.115 and 0.2 ppm (parts per million). Treatment should be continued from between 14 and 25 days. Because of the variability in the life cycle, the length of treatment is also variable, but continuing the treatment for 7 days after all symptoms are gone is usually a good rule of thumb. Chelated copper products are advocated by some aquarists because of their high safety margin. However, some reports indicate that to be effective, very high doses need to be used, negating some of their safety benefits.

Remember that when we are treating with copper, we are treating the stages that occur off of the fish. Because the fish encapsulates the parasite on the skin in such a tough cyst, the medicine cannot kill the organism until it leaves the skin. This is why it is necessary to have such a long treatment cycle because the parasite will only be susceptible to the copper at certain times in its life cycle.

Since copper is extremely toxic to invertebrates, treating Cryptocaryon in a reef tank poses special problems. One option is to remove the infected fish to a bare bottomed treatment tank where they can be effectively treated. While this will usually treat the infected fish, it will not get rid of the Cryptocaryon in the original as long as there are fish remaining in the tank. So to clear up a tank, all of the fish will need to be removed and the tank will need to run on its own for about a month until all of the Cryptocaryon have a chance to complete their life cycle and die. In some severe cases, owners have been known to remove all living organisms and completely tear down and sanitize their tank; however, this is not practical for most owners.

In a fish-only tank, copper can be added directly to the tank, but it should be mentioned that copper will bind to many inert substances in a tank and some experienced aquarists caution against ever adding copper to a display tank because of the risk of never being able to completely rid the tank of copper, making it unsuitable for ever housing copper-sensitive invertebrates.

Other treatments: Other methods that are sometimes used to control both freshwater and marine ich are high wattage UV sterilizers and diatom filters. The very fine diatom filters can help strain the small floating tomites out of the water. A UV sterilizer that is sufficiently powerful to kill parasites will also kill free-floating Cryptocaryon tomites. It should also be mentioned that some hobbyists choose to not treat mild cases of ich, but work very hard to have excellent water quality, nutrition, and proper cover, and feel that the new fish will have a mild outbreak because of shipping stress but will improve once they adjust to the new tank.

One last note on treating Cryptocaryon has to do with the fish in some tanks that 'always have ich.' There are some fish that develop a mild case of Cryptocaryon and never seem to get a severe case, but then also never seem to recover it completely. Many of these fish appear to be healthy except for the small white spots or other mild symptoms. It is very likely that these fish are being stressed either by aggression in the tank, water parameters, or diet. If the underlying stress can be identified and remedied, then these fish have a chance of completely recovering from the disease.

Preventing Cryptocaryon

The old saying that 'prevention is the best form of medicine' is very true of all marine disease, but especially true of Cryptocaryon. All new fish should be placed in a quarantine tank for at least ten days to make sure that they are eating, free of disease, and so they are not being bullied in a new tank. Any sick fish can be treated before being added to the display tank. Remember though, a quarantine tank needs to be clean; appropriately sized; have the necessary biological, mechanical, and chemical filters; and have adequate hiding places or it can actually increase the stress level of the fish.

Stress is the enemy of fish health. Cryptocaryon will target stressed fish with lowered immune systems. Anything we can do to reduce the stress that fish undergo will decrease both the disease incidence, mortality, and improve treatment results. Remember that almost all marine fish are wild harvested and are extremely stressed by the time they reach your home. These fish need to be handled very carefully to avoid disease outbreaks. They need to have perfect water quality, correct nutrition, a stable temperature, and places to hide and feel secure. If any of these needs are not met, then the already stressed fish will likely develop marine ich or another disease.

Some owners will place all new fish into a quarantine tank that is being treated with copper. Remember that these newly arrived fish are very stressed, and copper or other treatments can add additional stress. Once the fish has had several days to a week to acclimate and is eating well, then prophylactic treatment can be performed, however, it is never good medicine to routinely treat healthy fish. In fact, treating healthy fish should be avoided in both the show tank and the quarantine tank.

Summary

Marine ich is one of the most common diseases to strike saltwater fish. There are different levels of severity but Cryptocaryon can be a deadly disease, especially in already stressed fish. Cryptocaryon can be successfully treated if done promptly, but the best treatment is prevention. Quarantining all new fish, and then providing high water quality including a stable temperature, adequate shelter, and nutrition are all important in preventing an outbreak of this common disease.
 

stevieduk

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Seriously - we spend 1000's of dollars on computers that monitor everything in our tanks. Half of us want to spend that on something that monitors KH alone! We have LED lights that can mimic the weather and sun cycle of anywhere on the planet....that we can operate from our phones.

We are tragically in a hobby where we'll buy absolutely anything to give us an edge.....but still...with all that money spent, nobody has developed a reef safe cure for ich? Rather, one that actually works?

I know...I know...QT is the cure for ich, but we're all idiots at some point and unfortunately I bet 90% of us have had a tank get ich. Then we're supposed to somehow catch every fish and go fallow for seven years? (sarcasm).

You'd think some enterprising company would work out a reef-safe cure for these guys. I mean, it's literally the easiest thing to cure once you get it in copper....so we can't sort out something else that works?

No joke - and I'm by no means a rich reef keeper - I'd spend $500 to nuke Ich in my display right now. There's just no way I can catch every fish so I'm in ich management and it sucks because I don't want to get any new fish. So I have a 200g with 10 fish....

Come on companies - supply/demand!
well I have used HERBTANA many times over the years and its always cured the ich and not hurt my corals. I would recommend it to anyone
 

bios

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the only way is as Humblefish says is to quarantine the fish
and as PaulB says to feed fish in the best way to enaunce the immunosystem of the fish
no way ....
 

Scott Goorland

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The mythical Chloroquine is a quinine based product that I have read is supposedly the miracle cure. You can find some research about it on the web. The problem is that it has been nearly impossible to get. Apparently that is due to amounts being limited to aquaculture because of the majority of it being shipped out to other countries with malaria. It also has no test kits. One route may be a vet, who can write a prescription for it, but again it has other issues associated with it. There are some threads here about it. For now until we get that miracle cure, the answer for me is really simple. Nothing, and I mean nothing, wet goes into my tank without quarantine. I suffered an ick outbreak early in my tank set up years ago and pulled the tank transfer method which was very very effective, with a 5 week fallow display, even if time consuming. Since then even my inverts get quarantine, because who knows where those drops of water in the bag came from. Even in an lfs that had isolated the inverts, one movement of a hand from a fish tank to an invert tank can transfer diseases. Quarantine for the life cycle period of about 4 weeks, and I have UV on quarantine. Right now I have an outbreak of hair algae in the reef because I moved my 180 from my old house to my new one, lost a ton of snails and hermits, and the UV broke. I'll be getting a bunch of inverts to deal with it while replacing the UV, but I won't even think of putting them in the tank until quarantined. I'd rather deal with an algae breakout any day than disease.
 

4FordFamily

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well I have used HERBTANA many times over the years and its always cured the ich and not hurt my corals. I would recommend it to anyone
Herbtana does not cure your fish, your fish just built a resistence on their own. This is a common phenomenon and misconception.
 
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Humblefish

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The mythical Chloroquine is a quinine based product that I have read is supposedly the miracle cure.

FWIW; I've used Chloroquine extensively and it is NOT a "miracle cure". For one, we are discovering certain fish (exs. wrasses, anthias, Hippo Tangs) waste away & die in it for unknown reasons. These are best treated using copper, TTM, etc.

We are also discovering that heterotrophic bacteria will biodegrade CP if used in a long-term QT. Copper, a poison and not a true medication, cannot be targeted by these bacteria.

However, CP does work well on angels, tangs, butterflies, clownfish, damsels, mandarins, etc. etc. IME. It is also my treatment of choice for eradicating Marine Velvet Disease, unless the fish is a CP intolerant species (see above).
 

David S

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Seriously - we spend 1000's of dollars on computers that monitor everything in our tanks. Half of us want to spend that on something that monitors KH alone! We have LED lights that can mimic the weather and sun cycle of anywhere on the planet....that we can operate from our phones.

We are tragically in a hobby where we'll buy absolutely anything to give us an edge.....but still...with all that money spent, nobody has developed a reef safe cure for ich? Rather, one that actually works?

I know...I know...QT is the cure for ich, but we're all idiots at some point and unfortunately I bet 90% of us have had a tank get ich. Then we're supposed to somehow catch every fish and go fallow for seven years? (sarcasm).

You'd think some enterprising company would work out a reef-safe cure for these guys. I mean, it's literally the easiest thing to cure once you get it in copper....so we can't sort out something else that works?

No joke - and I'm by no means a rich reef keeper - I'd spend $500 to nuke Ich in my display right now. There's just no way I can catch every fish so I'm in ich management and it sucks because I don't want to get any new fish. So I have a 200g with 10 fish....

Come on companies - supply/demand!
Whether or not it cures or arrests ICK Herbtana works.
I used it to "cure" my Yellow Tang on 2 separate occasions (first time was almost 6 years ago when I first got it, the other time was a few weeks ago when I use Flatworm Exit which really stressed him out. In both cases I also dosed his food with some Metronidazole. I went light on this because I read that repeated use of this stuff could cause kidney damage/failure. I believe, though, the Herbtana was the primary factor responsible for Sunny's recoveries. I've also dosed it whenever any fish seemed out of sorts and within a day they would be fine.
A few things about Herbtana: It doesn't cure Ick. It simply calms the fish and improves their slime coat making it difficult for the Ick to stay on the body.
Totally harmless to anything else in the tank if dosed normally. I can tell you that one time I dropped a large amount of it in the tank. This did a number on my copepod/amphipod population, but everything else LPS/SPS Zoas inverts & fish were fine.
During the treatment it is recommended to turn of your skimmer. It will go crazy. I have my Skimmer on for 6 hours and when I've used Herbatana I stick around for the first hour so I can remove the collection cup, which is usually full. You may just want to stop using the skimmer.
One final note is that early detection is probably the key. When I notice a white spot on a fish doesn't necessarily mean it's Ick but when I see the early stages of "glancing", as well, there's no doubt in my mind what it is and I reach for the Herbtana.
If the Ick is at a more advanced state, I could not say for sure whether this product would work.
 

Cabinetman

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I know this has been quiet for a while but come on big business. Get us a reef safe cure. You could charge insane amounts of money if it is guaranteed to work. We hobbiest pay rediculous amounts of money for cheap lighting to keep our coral happy. Rediculous amounts for Simple computers to control our tanks. We are overcharged for everything. Please find a cure and take our money!
 

Daniel@R2R

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there is a reefsafe one , its called HERBTANA. always works for me if you follow the instruction to the letter

As @4FordFamily stated above:
Herbtana does not cure your fish, your fish just built a resistance on their own. This is a common phenomenon and misconception.

People tend to think it cures ich because the white spots go away (if only for a while), but it's still there just smaller than you can see. Herbtana only helps to "manage" ich, but it cannot eradicate it. Here's a write up that helps explain the difference between an ich eradication and ich management: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
 

schooncw

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Any updates on Herbtana? I added a female bluethroat trigger last week and noticed last night that she has a bit of ich. All inhabitants are happy and fat-as is she-and while I was picking up a few cleaner shrimp today, this product was recommended.
 

scardall

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Yes! This is the truth. A

But.....as we all know in life...Stuff happens and someway, somehow something sneaks through.
I like your Quote.

Here's a poser. How does ICH show up after 4 months since last fish added. Or 2.5 months after live rock that had no life on it but bacteria and was dried for a week before it was added to the DT. hmm Note this DT never had ICH for 17+ years and I have never QT'ed ever. (mixed reef-75g) Just curious??
 

schooncw

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Some say its always in the system. I just added 3 cleaner shrimp and am dripping in a cleaner wrasse now. Thinking of picking up a bottle of Herbtana and reading up on it now.
 

stevieduk

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I always use Herbtana anytime i might do anything that may stress my fish, thats what brings out the Ich. Putting that in calms them and does not hurt my coral
 

Daniel@R2R

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I like your Quote.

Here's a poser. How does ICH show up after 4 months since last fish added. Or 2.5 months after live rock that had no life on it but bacteria and was dried for a week before it was added to the DT. hmm Note this DT never had ICH for 17+ years and I have never QT'ed ever. (mixed reef-75g) Just curious??
It came in at some point but your livestock had been resistant to it building up a population large enough to see. So it took 4 months for it to show up on a fish whose resistance was low enough for them to thrive, but they were either introduced with the last fish or were present even before that.
 

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