Will NH3 be converted to NH4?

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jcosta98

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The nitrate is an approximation, it may read 20 ppm on another kit


we never mind nitrate for six months in my cycling threads, however it lands in a well fed well exported tank is good enough for the first half year or so.

So , even on an Hanna checker , you wouldn't trust the result on <6 months old reef? Why is that?

I'm also running the skimmer 24/7 during cycling , don't know if that matters or has any negative impact, my thought it is it would export some stuff before turning nitrate and also oxygenate the water
 
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brandon429

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oh heck on hanna agreed it's the best so far it seems. Randy says they have some interference like all tests but they also seem to check out fairly well in nitrate comparison threads where folks ran api and red sea and nyos against it.

nice one. I thought we were dealing in api. I still wouldnt mess with nitrate as anywhere it lands is ok, your whole protein input, availability to corals and export of waste is what matters most early on. If you want higher nitrate, can feed more in the system
 

DrZoidburg

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By no fish system do you mean freshwater fish? Did you read that article from a university? Simply says If the bacteria is not established, or if too much bio load for bacteria. Nitrite will be present. The same would apply for marine nitrogen cycle. It also talks about toxic levels for two examples of fish. One being .1mg/L (catfish) .5mg/L (salmon species). Those are very low levels but can cause severe health conditions in those specific fish. That is only toxicity values for two species. According to them it ranges from very low to very high 200mg/L. It also gives a clue to why it maybe less toxic to marine fish. It would be different toxicity levels for all kinds of fish freshwater or saltwater. Here you guys cycle a tank with one damsel fish (known to be more tolerant to ammonia). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/100-water-change.752693/ Did not read the post he made before. I assume he used bottled bacteria? Also noted that he only did 1 nitrite test, the other pictures were just ammonia. That thread does not prove a complete cycle. Initially the poor damsel was likely swimming around in residual ammonia, nitrite, and rising nitrates. Even after a water change. Over time yes if it survived it would of been cycled for one small fish. Another possibility being ignored that some of the ammonia evaporated out of solution, or possibly absorbed into the plastics of the overflows, pumps, or powerheads. Anything plastic or rubber could do this. Also your other 18 page thread does not definitively prove to me anything (up to page two) that it is a completed cycle. Page 2 pictures you can see nitrite rising to 1mg/L. from .5mg/L after a water change. Again only with one small fish. Your not taking into account the fishes tolerance to these nitrogen compounds. Your not taking blood samples and measuring levels, or even doing extensive test on long term health. You are just calling it cycled and done from what I gather from it. Also when "stuck" it could be a case where the bacteria go dormant not just die off even if it is only a short time. Some other factors that can contribute to being stuck are changes in temperature, and salinity.
 

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We already covered your article doesnt apply because its not a reef tank cycling article.

I’m shocked I missed this was a six month duration reef, even Lasse will agree there’s no nitrite issues in anyone’s six month reef.

Surely this is a reef tank? You didn’t strike me as someone discussing freshwater tanks in a reef chem forum.

post a full tank shot/ pic

at no time in reefing has any fish been affected by any degree of nitrite, and we're long past nitrite concerns at mo six you can rest well on that concern Dr. Z

this thread was an ammonia action thread and that's controlled in all cases in functioning reef tanks at mo six.
 
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We already covered your article doesnt apply because its not a reef tank cycling article.

I’m shocked I missed this was a six month duration reef, even Lasse will agree there’s no nitrite issues in anyone’s six month reef.

Surely this is a reef tank? You didn’t strike me as someone discussing freshwater tanks in a reef chem forum.

post a full tank shot/ pic

at no time in reefing has any fish been affected by any degree of nitrite, and we're long past nitrite concerns at mo six you can rest well on that concern Dr. Z

this thread was an ammonia action thread and that's controlled in all cases in functioning reef tanks at mo six.
Its not 6 month old. Think you missed the “less than” sign. Unless I’ve gone crazy it’s about 19 days old.
 
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brandon429

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gotcha. still, at 19 days that completes the ammonia control line from a cycling chart, and on my logged works thread we cleared every reef by then. helpful summary I was indeed confused in his descrip, can't wait to see pics of this reef tank. nitrate can't be accepted as correct then, if nitrite interference is at play and could be by day 19 still, takes a full month or longer on the chart but we don't need to factor it.


His start date has been assessed as ready by our collected standards, now its part of the prediction set we can follow up and check details next few weeks.
 

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its that we've disproved any risk in reef tank cycling, using reef tank cycle examples and any participant in our huge thread(s) can be direct messaged to verify outcome.


apples to oranges referencing happened. we need reef tank cycle articles showing losses and dead fish in order to establish a valid risk for reef tank cycling. even though you read to only 2 pages, you can tell the next sixteen were on the same mark.
 
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bioload is now in this tank, every day we can track out proofs. excellent. nothing is a better proof than living fish plus feed carried in clean water, every day.

this is a perfect test for our stance as he has bioload in an aquarium we would not expect to have nitrite compliance, we're literally testing the validity of your linked article day by day here now. the reason this is an ethical start date is because in all pages of our work thread, bioload can be carried by the first two weeks wait in any arrangement pretty much.

now that bioload is in place, it does not matter if nitrite rises and it frankly doesnt matter if the non digital ammonia test kits shows a rise...this isn't sterile water we're working in, there's nitrification to overreport and also factor in prime use and other adulterants that are common arrangements and the tests won't be a big factor from here on out.


water clarity and fish behavior is 100% the indicator of success. burnt fish won't feed, non cycled tanks can't carry fed fish they'll all die in a day or two if not ready. now that's consequence, plain and predicted in a timeline.
 
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thats a perfect start it will work. post us some pics for starting calibration on water clarity and fish placement...then when we see an update in a week we will have tangible data for the tracking. from this point on a mere tank picture can assess your entire cycle status. the sign of a failed cycle will be gray water, smell, fish darting and panting heavily up top unable to breathe, with burnt gills, within 48 hours.


if the fish dies in the next 2-3 weeks and the water stayed clear the whole time, then that's a disease manifest. unlikely with clowns, they're fairly tough nowadays.

and beyond 48 hours with clean water, normal fish, done and not looking back. all failed cycle issues happen fast, they're never a creeper or extended event. quick consequence will happen when ammonia isn't controlled.
 

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Can anyone whose done this offer bioassays, long term research on something like slow liver failure, cellular necrosis, cancer studies, or anything for that matter in an arbitrary 3, or more years some ones fish lives because of exposure to these? You do not really disprove or prove anything by just saying hey its alive and looks fine. Have you anyone try this with yellow tang just curious?
 

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agreed, run some of those tests thats a valid concern.
do the work, compile a work thread, that's speaking our language of action.

that cycling thread is one of ten, and the other nine go back about a decade. you can message folks going back ten years on our cycles :)

its also not possible to claim we've harmed livers, remember you're hunting for consequence and you have a pool of entrants who can tell you about that directly, if asked. so far, all consequence has been manufactured on site.
 

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right now his clown and its slime coat has vectored in copious cycling bac, even if his bottle was dead.

he didnt strike me as an unfeeding cycler, most folks input feed and or liquid cycling bac and if thats the case a nominal carry ability developed in these two weeks even without bottle bac, we have a thread on one of those cycles handy.


but he did add bac, and that's not likely to be inert...lastly, one clownfish isn't much load so as the fish sits there acting normal, day by day, its hyper-feeding a cycle itself and things are going to be fine. we collected no tank crashes in our thread using # of days submerged as the key cycle close date.

we have tracked out several fish-in cycles to this date on seneye, they all pass all the time, no reason this one won't it has all the proper clues in place. need them pics to shore up things, we're pic heavy in updated cycling science/
 

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did Randy mention liver failure or other risks

you painted the risk acutely Dr. Zoidberg yet we have no examples or necropsies showing liver disease, it seems a manufactured risk claimed above post #52 because cycling reefs will never reach nitrite toxicity in our dilutions and beginning additions.

look how plainly I asked the question regarding free nitrite impacts. It’s not like we flippantly began ignoring it. The best chemist I knew said it was fine, and hundreds of logged tests later his offer stands true. Our outcomes support his statement from that thread.

see how every one of my links involves a reef tank example- formal links provided do not, and are irrelevant.
 
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How are your fish and water quality today, can you post an update picture pls it really helps to begin prediction accountability for building cycling methods in the hobby

pics speak the details well above entry level test kit readings.

what we are tracking out here in your system affects the hobby view on cycling, allowed start times, bioload management and retail purchases along with long term impacts. Your new reef has the potential to be a real focus on updated cycling science which frankly is just a reflection on ways the hobby has already changed 180 degrees on cycling compared to the old ways.


we get to track another reef live time against predictions and timing set in place. Your documented updates are more important for cycling than any formal link that can be added into the matter, your bioload is either going to live or die quickly based on cycle status. The water is either going to cloud or remain clear based on inherent cycle status.
 
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If you keep your thread updated with pics I’ll move this post to the very top of three massive study links so that thousands of readers see claims play out live time.


cycling science is changing, due to sheer force of patterns on file.
 
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If you keep your thread updated with pics I’ll move this post to the very top of three massive study links so that thousands of readers see contrasting claims play out live time.


cycling science is changing, due to sheer force of patterns on file.
So , today it tested:

Nitrate: 3ppm ( I think this is too low... afraid I might have a bad test kit , it is a Nyos )
Free ammonia: 0.05 ppm still
PH: 8

I have been feeding frozen Mysis and pellets twice a day to the fish, he looks good and feeding, no ill effects.
Here are the pictures, not so many new organism growth, only a white cotton like growth , since I don't have direct light on the tank.
WhatsApp Image 2021-08-05 at 6.00.37 PM.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-08-05 at 6.00.37 PM (1).jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-08-05 at 6.00.37 PM (2).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2021-08-05 at 6.00.37 PM (3).jpeg
 

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Excellent. You're not overfeeding or overstocking it's all very balanced for the gallonage and surface area at hand. Plus laser clear pics that really helps for sure. This exact activity is packing in filtration bacteria by the hour every day yet enough exists to handle fish plus feed without clouding. If you added a common candy cane coral and fed it occasionally with a brine shrimp when feeders were out in the a.m. that wouldn't cause harm it'd cause a feeding response

I must link this dry rock system for consideration, it's an ideal way to mature just your type of reef:

white dry rock systems are hard to run initially, but he makes it look easy. score a bag of real mixed pods from algaebarn it'll be the best thing you could add to that starting tank.

the clownfish posed that way in the picture looking 100% happy because he is.
 
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Excellent. You're not overfeeding or overstocking it's all very balanced for the gallonage and surface area at hand. Plus laser clear pics that really helps for sure. This exact activity is packing in filtration bacteria by the hour every day yet enough exists to handle fish plus feed without clouding. If you added a common candy cane coral and fed it occasionally with a brine shrimp when feeders were out in the a.m. that wouldn't cause harm it'd cause a feeding response

I must link this dry rock system for consideration, it's an ideal way to mature just your type of reef:

white dry rock systems are hard to run initially, but he makes it look easy. score a bag of real mixed pods from algaebarn it'll be the best thing you could add to that starting tank.

the clownfish posed that way in the picture looking 100% happy because he is.
Yep haha, he should look happy, he has been on a 10G cube for some time, so this is a huge house for him :) I still have another clown, thinking of moving it soon into the cube too!


Last Sunday I added a bottle of 250 ML of Copepods and Rotifers, been feeding them with some live phytoplankton every 3 days , I can't see any of them but I guess some survived hehe. I will take time to look at that thread , looks very interesting as mine will be an SPS Dominant too :)


Thanks!!
 
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