Wrasses: I did everything wrong. Now what?

[pseudorand]

The LFS was out of stock on the fish I wanted, so I foolishly pick up a few wrasses that looked cool but that I couldn't fully research with the bad signal my phone got from the fish room. I got a 6-line and a Scarlett Pin-stripe (along with what they called an "Algae-eating Blenny", which I assume is Lawnmower). They're both in my 39g QT. Both are swimming happily and both have eaten.

Then I did my homework. Turns out copper is bad for wrasses. My QT has about 1ppm Coppersafe (which is at least the chelated variety). That's half the recommended dose (it was prep'd for the ruby red dragonnetts I had planned to get).

It also turns out that the genus Pseudocheilinus doesn't get along with other wrasses. 3 guesses as to the genus of both the 6-line and Scarlett Pin-Stripe.

I know what you're thinking -- Do a water change to remove the copper and return at least one of the wrasses already! But they're both really cool. And it turns out I may not have done everything wrong for my particular situation.

Per the article, Pseudocheilinus are "very hardy genus". They stay small (I have 120g). They're aggressive enough to hold their own (I inherited two large Clarkii clowns with liverock from Craig's List and they're...well, damselfish [who named that group of fish anyway!]). They also don't need a sandbed like other wrasses (I have crush coral substrate).

I really like these fish. I also typically avoid solving non-problems. My two wrasses aren't fighting (yet), they are eating, and nothing about their behavior makes me think the CopperSafe is having any ill effects.

So here's my tank "emergency":

* What signs am I looking for to see if my wrasses are experiencing ill effects from the copper?

* Do I continue to QT @ 1ppm Cu, or do I do a water change?

* If I see no ill signs, do I up the Cu to the full dose in a few days?

* If I don't go to the full dose of Cu, do I treat with Parazipro simultaneously? (I suspect a half dose of Cu is not a proper quarantine.)

* Am I reading the article correctly that a Pseudocheilinus must not be kept with any other wrasse, or just with no other wrasses of a different genus? (i.e. will my two Pseudocheilinus will likely get along).

* If I shouldn't expect the two wrasses to get along:

* Is not fighting a sign that the copper is affecting them?
* Might I have lucked out, or have they just not gotten into it yet. They actually seem to follow each other around peacefully.

* I got the lawnmower blenny for algae control in my DT, but my QT has no algae (yet). What do I feed him during quarantine? I tried some Emerald Entree today, but I didn't see him eat any. He's a bit shy though, so I may have missed him eating or perhaps hunger will overcome fear tomorrow.

 

[StatelineReefer]

The LFS was out of stock on the fish I wanted, so I foolishly pick up a few wrasses that looked cool but that I couldn't fully research with the bad signal my phone got from the fish room. I got a 6-line and a Scarlett Pin-stripe (along with what they called an "Algae-eating Blenny", which I assume is Lawnmower). They're both in my 39g QT. Both are swimming happily and both have eaten.

Then I did my homework. Turns out copper is bad for wrasses. My QT has about 1ppm Coppersafe (which is at least the chelated variety). That's half the recommended dose (it was prep'd for the ruby red dragonnetts I had planned to get).

It also turns out that the genus Pseudocheilinus doesn't get along with other wrasses. 3 guesses as to the genus of both the 6-line and Scarlett Pin-Stripe.

I know what you're thinking -- Do a water change to remove the copper and return at least one of the wrasses already! But they're both really cool. And it turns out I may not have done everything wrong for my particular situation.

Per the article, Pseudocheilinus are "very hardy genus". They stay small (I have 120g). They're aggressive enough to hold their own (I inherited two large Clarkii clowns with liverock from Craig's List and they're...well, damselfish [who named that group of fish anyway!]). They also don't need a sandbed like other wrasses (I have crush coral substrate).

I really like these fish. I also typically avoid solving non-problems. My two wrasses aren't fighting (yet), they are eating, and nothing about their behavior makes me think the CopperSafe is having any ill effects.

So here's my tank "emergency":

* What signs am I looking for to see if my wrasses are experiencing ill effects from the copper?

Forced respiration, sudden swimming in tight circles, cloudy eyes, resting on the bottom, or resting near the top gulping air.

* Do I continue to QT @ 1ppm Cu, or do I do a water change?

1 ppm isn't effective in any case. but wrasses should not be copper dosed, there are better means for them!

* If I see no ill signs, do I up the Cu to the full dose in a few days?

Discontinue copper. @4FordFamily @Humblefish should advise here, Humble's a quarantine expert, 4FordFamily are known for their strict and comprehensive study of quarantine procedures and disease strains.

* If I don't go to the full dose of Cu, do I treat with Parazipro simultaneously? (I suspect a half dose of Cu is not a proper quarantine.)

Exactly right, it is not.

* Am I reading the article correctly that a Pseudocheilinus must not be kept with any other wrasse, or just with no other wrasses of a different genus? (i.e. will my two Pseudocheilinus will likely get along).

@evolved has a guide on Wrasses under "Fish Discussion" it's stickied, and comprehensive. I believe the worry here is between conspecifics, close coloration will cause the dominant wrasse to harass the less dominant fish to it's death. However, we all know 6-line's gonna 6-line. I'd take the problem child out.

* If I shouldn't expect the two wrasses to get along:
* Is not fighting a sign that the copper is affecting them?
* Might I have lucked out, or have they just not gotten into it yet. They actually seem to follow each other around peacefully.

When they are placed in the display tank, I would assume territorial disputes would become more regular, but again, individual fish have individual personalities.

Once again though, 6-line's gonna 6-line.

* I got the lawnmower blenny for algae control in my DT, but my QT has no algae (yet). What do I feed him during quarantine? I tried some Emerald Entree today, but I didn't see him eat any. He's a bit shy though, so I may have missed him eating or perhaps hunger will overcome fear tomorrow.

Nori, nori, and more nori.
Day 1-3 it's not unusual to see blennies hide. They'll eat when they're hungry... leave a patch on the glass for them to munch when film algae grows. I leave mine in the front corner of the DT so that I can track when he's eating.

 

[4FordFamily]

I use copper with wrasses, I find it typically works better for them than CP. Wrasses are not particularly hardy with regards to either medication, but copper increased slowly after the wrasse is eating is best practice, IME. Copper Power or chelated copper would be my suggestion. 1.75-2.0 PPM. Be advised in rare circumstances, velvet can survive copper around 1.5PPM and possibly even 1.75PPM. But wrasse struggle even more north of 2.0PPM

 

[pseudorand]

Well, too little too late on my part. Yesterday the scarlet pinstripe didn't seem to eat much, but he was still moving fine and still came out at feeding time, so I didn't think much of it. Today he was in the bottom corner of the tank. I did a 30% water change and prayed, but then he was upside down a few hours later. I've got him in a 5 gallon bucket with a heater and I'm slowly dripping in fresh salt mix (no copper), but I'm sure it's too late. I should have listened. I should have pulled the copper on day 1 and slowly added it back in. Now I'm a murderer. Based on what everyone says, I guess I'm in good company with my 6-line (who's doing swell and eating fine still). I suspect he'll have to go back to the store rather than in my DT, assuming they ever let stores open again.

 

[Jaco2420]

Well, too little too late on my part. Yesterday the scarlet pinstripe didn't seem to eat much, but he was still moving fine and still came out at feeding time, so I didn't think much of it. Today he was in the bottom corner of the tank. I did a 30% water change and prayed, but then he was upside down a few hours later. I've got him in a 5 gallon bucket with a heater and I'm slowly dripping in fresh salt mix (no copper), but I'm sure it's too late. I should have listened. I should have pulled the copper on day 1 and slowly added it back in. Now I'm a murderer. Based on what everyone says, I guess I'm in good company with my 6-line (who's doing swell and eating fine still). I suspect he'll have to go back to the store rather than in my DT, assuming they ever let stores open again.

Don’t be hard on yourself, everyone makes mistakes in this hobby and it’s important not to dwell on it and feel like a murderer. Learn from your experiences. I’m sorry for your lost fish.

 

[pseudorand]

So the 6-line is still behaving fine in QT, but today I noticed a bump behind is left eye. It's just one, so perhaps it's an injury rather than a parasite. I haven't dared to up the copper after my poor Scarlet Pinstripe died, but I did dose PraziPro this afternoon. I know the pictures are crap (he won't stay still, which I likely a good sign in terms of health). But does anyone care to venture a guess as to what it is.

Any advice for treatment? I'm planning to let the PraziPro do it's work for the recommended 5-7 days and then re-treat if it's still there. If 2 weeks of PraziPro doesn't get it or I notice more white spots, I'll start slowly upping the copper to the treatment concentration.

I think my the Lawnmower Blenny that shares QT with him still looks fine, but he's usually hiding and definitely hides right away if I get close enough to the tank to see if he has anything similar.

 

[pseudorand]

Well, < 48h after dosing PraziPro the 6-line isn't eating. He didn't even show his face for brine shrimp. So I did a 30% water change and put the QT on both carbon and Cuprisorb, but I'm not hopeful. He did come out as I moved stuff to suck up debris during the water change, and he's defiantly sick. He moves slowly and was on his side at one point. I'm worried that the stress of the water change alone may kill him.

And now I don't know if the cause is ParaziPro, what's left the the original dose of Cu or whatever that white spot was. I'm going to guess it was the ParaziPro since that's the obvious change, and despite some saying it's safe for all fish, I just found this thread again claiming wrasses might be the exception. He's been in the Cu for 2+ weeks with no signs of stress, so I don't think it's that. The white spot might also be a parasite that's the cause. It did seem to appear rather quickly.

I did do a water test. 0 ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate was at about 10ppm, so probably about time for a water change anyway.

Takeaway: Don't medicate wrasses. (I know, slow buildup after they're eating. But PraziPro was supposed to be safe!)

 

[Crustaceon]

Why not just qt without medications being physically added to the water and just watch for indications of illness? If you really wanted to be proactive, you could always feed them medicine-soaked foods with a binder like metro and kanaplex and get the piece of mind you’re looking for.

 

[pseudorand]

That was (and will be going forward) my plan after the first one died (presumably from Cu). But the the 6-line got the white spot (just one, so maybe not ich), and I wanted to treat for that before it was too late. Next time I'll give it a week to see if it gets worse before using medication, at least for wrasses. Or maybe I'll just avoid wrasses all together.

My firefish and royal Gramma did fine in Cu and are now happily in the DT.

 

[pseudorand]

Well, the 6-line died as expected. At least now I don't have to struggle with whether or not to put him in my DT. No more wrasses for me. But man are they cool looking fish.