Zoas not growing or improving in 3 months

bartizzle

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I only have one type of Zoa in my tank, my goal was for it to start to overtake this rock and eventually blend others in with it for a garden. I have had these for 6 months and they look worse than when I got them! I always dip in CoralRX per the instructions too.

They looked all bushy and good for 3 months and then I added a new wall hammer, a little later replaced ChemiPure Blue, PolyPad, and carbon. I also cleaned the sandbed. Shortly after, my wall hammer died, a Duncan died, and my zoas are still shocked. I posted about it and folks told me that the nitrates and phosphates were too low, so I pulled the chemical filtration. Since then my GSP has been growing like crazy, other Duncans are doing great, octospawn opened fully etc. Nitrates went from <10 to about 20ppm, Phosphate went from 0.03 to about 40ppm.

I do have an issue that a branching hammer got physically damaged on a new frag plug when it fell and I wasn't around to notice. Now one of my other branching hammers seems to have retracted some and I'm not yet sure as to why. I may post in another section about them. The octospawn is still fully out though which is right next to them.

Water parameters are at the bottom, under the photos. Thank you all!


Here was what the zoas looked like for the first 3 months.
IMG_1098.JPG

IMG_1166.JPG



VS now...
IMG_3833.jpg


IMG_3798.jpg


IMG_3758.jpg



DateTemp FSGpHdKH(NO3) ppm(PO4) ppm(Ca) ppm(Mg) ppm(NH3) ppm(NO2) ppm(I2) ppmNotes
7/12/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.9​
5​
0.03​
370​
1200​
0​
0​
Day after vacation, prior to adding frogspawn, GSP, zoas, duncans, 12 trochous, 6 nassarius, 12 red leg crabs
7/14/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.9​
5​
0.03​
370​
1200​
0​
0​
Tested and then dosed 10ml
7/14/2020​
78​
8​
9.4​
400​
0​
Tested 1h after dosing
7/16/2020​
78​
8​
9.4​
5​
0.03​
400​
1150​
Tested and then dosed 9ml + 5ml Mg
7/20/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.8​
5​
0.03​
380​
1170​
0​
Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/21/2020​
78​
8​
9.8​
390​
1180​
Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca, 9 ALK, 9ml Mg
7/23/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.2​
395​
1200​
Tested and then dosed 18ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/28/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
400​
1200​
8/3/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10​
10​
400​
1200​
Changed filter floss and PolyPad
8/4/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.9​
10​
0.25​
405​
1215​
Dosed Ca, Mg before testing, added Chemi-Pure Blue 5.5
8/5/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
0.1​
410​
1275​
8/7/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.2​
7​
0.1​
405​
1180​
Had a polyp eject. 10%WC, dosed 12ml Mg
8/10/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.9​
7​
0.1​
405​
1200​
0​
Last Frogspawn polyps ejected.
8/16/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10​
10​
0.1​
400​
1185​
0​
0​
8/28/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.3​
7​
0.03​
405​
1185​
0​
0​
9/14/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
10​
7​
0.03​
0​
0​
New gate valve and 5g WC, swept sand.
9/15/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
0.03​
400​
1200​
0​
0​
Removed Chemi-Pure Blue. Added wall hammer.
9/25/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
9.9​
10​
0.03​
400​
1215​
0​
0.05​
Replaced Chemi-Pure Blue and PolyPad.
10/1/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
10​
7​
0.03​
400​
1200​
0​
0.05​
Cleaned sand bed, changed floss.30%WC
10/4/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
9.9​
7​
0.03​
400​
1215​
0​
0.05​
10/5/2020​
78​
Dipped Zoas and Duncans in CoralRx Pro.
10/7/2020​
78​
Pulled Chemi-Pure Blue and Poly-Pad (expecting PO4 to increase per recommendation)
10/8/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.8​
10​
0.1- 0.25
400​
1200​
0​
0.05​
Refreshed Matrix Carbon
10/9/2020​
78​
0.22​
New Hanna PO4 checker
10/10/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.4​
5​
0.12​
370​
1170​
0​
0​
50% WC, added more carbon, dipped wall hammer and duncan in MediCoral
10/14/2020​
Donated 6 crabs, Dipped Zoas, Duncan, and Hammer in CoralRx Pro and MediCoral.
10/16/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.8​
5​
0.3​
370​
1140​
0​
0​
10/20/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.2​
5​
0.23​
0​
0​
11/8/2020​
78​
1.025​
30% WC Switched to Tropic Marin Reef Pro Salt
11/9/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
8.3​
5​
0.13​
415​
1290​
0​
0​
0.05​
12/22/2020​
78​
1.026​
8​
8.5​
5​
0.23​
420​
1240​
0​
0​
1/8/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
8.5​
20​
0.39​
440​
1230​
0​
0.05​
0.05​
Added new corals
1/12/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
20​
0.4​
0​
1/16/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
7.9​
20​
0.36​
0​
1/18/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
8​
20​
0.49​
420​
1260​
0​
0​
0.04​
 
Corals.com

RedFrog211

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Based on how the stalks are trumpeting (growing), I’d say it’s a matter of lights. What kind of lights do you have? I’d recommend moving them slightly up the rock, or increasing lights if possible. Please do this with caution though, as this will affect the rest of the corals as well
 
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bartizzle

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Based on how the stalks are trumpeting (growing), I’d say it’s a matter of lights. What kind of lights do you have? I’d recommend moving them slightly up the rock, or increasing lights if possible. Please do this with caution though, as this will affect the rest of the corals as well

Biocube32 LED... I've wondered that before but I'm running them at full intensity for even longer now to support my other coral, including SPS.
 

McCarrick

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Location
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I only have one type of Zoa in my tank, my goal was for it to start to overtake this rock and eventually blend others in with it for a garden. I have had these for 6 months and they look worse than when I got them! I always dip in CoralRX per the instructions too.

They looked all bushy and good for 3 months and then I added a new wall hammer, a little later replaced ChemiPure Blue, PolyPad, and carbon. I also cleaned the sandbed. Shortly after, my wall hammer died, a Duncan died, and my zoas are still shocked. I posted about it and folks told me that the nitrates and phosphates were too low, so I pulled the chemical filtration. Since then my GSP has been growing like crazy, other Duncans are doing great, octospawn opened fully etc. Nitrates went from <10 to about 20ppm, Phosphate went from 0.03 to about 40ppm.

I do have an issue that a branching hammer got physically damaged on a new frag plug when it fell and I wasn't around to notice. Now one of my other branching hammers seems to have retracted some and I'm not yet sure as to why. I may post in another section about them. The octospawn is still fully out though which is right next to them.

Water parameters are at the bottom, under the photos. Thank you all!


Here was what the zoas looked like for the first 3 months.
IMG_1098.JPG

IMG_1166.JPG



VS now...
IMG_3833.jpg


IMG_3798.jpg


IMG_3758.jpg



DateTemp FSGpHdKH(NO3) ppm(PO4) ppm(Ca) ppm(Mg) ppm(NH3) ppm(NO2) ppm(I2) ppmNotes
7/12/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.9​
5​
0.03​
370​
1200​
0​
0​
Day after vacation, prior to adding frogspawn, GSP, zoas, duncans, 12 trochous, 6 nassarius, 12 red leg crabs
7/14/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.9​
5​
0.03​
370​
1200​
0​
0​
Tested and then dosed 10ml
7/14/2020​
78​
8​
9.4​
400​
0​
Tested 1h after dosing
7/16/2020​
78​
8​
9.4​
5​
0.03​
400​
1150​
Tested and then dosed 9ml + 5ml Mg
7/20/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.8​
5​
0.03​
380​
1170​
0​
Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/21/2020​
78​
8​
9.8​
390​
1180​
Tested and then dosed 15ml Ca, 9 ALK, 9ml Mg
7/23/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.2​
395​
1200​
Tested and then dosed 18ml Ca only + 9ml Mg
7/28/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
400​
1200​
8/3/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10​
10​
400​
1200​
Changed filter floss and PolyPad
8/4/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.9​
10​
0.25​
405​
1215​
Dosed Ca, Mg before testing, added Chemi-Pure Blue 5.5
8/5/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
0.1​
410​
1275​
8/7/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.2​
7​
0.1​
405​
1180​
Had a polyp eject. 10%WC, dosed 12ml Mg
8/10/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.9​
7​
0.1​
405​
1200​
0​
Last Frogspawn polyps ejected.
8/16/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10​
10​
0.1​
400​
1185​
0​
0​
8/28/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.3​
7​
0.03​
405​
1185​
0​
0​
9/14/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
10​
7​
0.03​
0​
0​
New gate valve and 5g WC, swept sand.
9/15/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
10.1​
7​
0.03​
400​
1200​
0​
0​
Removed Chemi-Pure Blue. Added wall hammer.
9/25/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
9.9​
10​
0.03​
400​
1215​
0​
0.05​
Replaced Chemi-Pure Blue and PolyPad.
10/1/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
10​
7​
0.03​
400​
1200​
0​
0.05​
Cleaned sand bed, changed floss.30%WC
10/4/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
9.9​
7​
0.03​
400​
1215​
0​
0.05​
10/5/2020​
78​
Dipped Zoas and Duncans in CoralRx Pro.
10/7/2020​
78​
Pulled Chemi-Pure Blue and Poly-Pad (expecting PO4 to increase per recommendation)
10/8/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.8​
10​
0.1- 0.25
400​
1200​
0​
0.05​
Refreshed Matrix Carbon
10/9/2020​
78​
0.22​
New Hanna PO4 checker
10/10/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.4​
5​
0.12​
370​
1170​
0​
0​
50% WC, added more carbon, dipped wall hammer and duncan in MediCoral
10/14/2020​
Donated 6 crabs, Dipped Zoas, Duncan, and Hammer in CoralRx Pro and MediCoral.
10/16/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
8.8​
5​
0.3​
370​
1140​
0​
0​
10/20/2020​
78​
1.024​
8​
9.2​
5​
0.23​
0​
0​
11/8/2020​
78​
1.025​
30% WC Switched to Tropic Marin Reef Pro Salt
11/9/2020​
78​
1.025​
8​
8.3​
5​
0.13​
415​
1290​
0​
0​
0.05​
12/22/2020​
78​
1.026​
8​
8.5​
5​
0.23​
420​
1240​
0​
0​
1/8/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
8.5​
20​
0.39​
440​
1230​
0​
0.05​
0.05​
Added new corals
1/12/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
20​
0.4​
0​
1/16/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
7.9​
20​
0.36​
0​
1/18/2021​
78​
1.026​
8​
8​
20​
0.49​
420​
1260​
0​
0​
0.04​
It's possible that stirring up your sandbed releases gases or something into your tank that set everything off. (If it doesnt get regularly overturned I think this can happen, someone else may correct me!) Your phosphates might be too high. I was reading that they shouldn't really be above .3. I read that in one @Randy Holmes-Farley 's articles.
 

RedFrog211

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Biocube32 LED... I've wondered that before but I'm running them at full intensity for even longer now to support my other coral, including SPS.
I’d recommend finding a higher place to put the frag, or find a zoa that requires less light. I can’t think of any alternatives to suggest off the top of my head, but I’m sure someone on here can help with that!
 
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bartizzle

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It's possible that stirring up your sandbed releases gases or something into your tank that set everything off. (If it doesnt get regularly overturned I think this can happen, someone else may correct me!) Your phosphates might be too high. I was reading that they shouldn't really be above .3. I read that in one @Randy Holmes-Farley 's articles.

That's interesting! What's a better way to do that? I have a few nassarius snails in there to help, but I rarely turn it over by hand unless I'm cleaning it. I was looking at ways to knock the PO4 back down to around .1 earlier and then stumbled on this from a BRS video too. Anyone have a good recommendation like Phosphate RX or something, I've tried to limit feedings and just added a skimmer 2 weeks ago.

IMG_3828.jpg
 
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bartizzle

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I’d recommend finding a higher place to put the frag, or find a zoa that requires less light. I can’t think of any alternatives to suggest off the top of my head, but I’m sure someone on here can help with that!

It's possible that the light intensity might be too much for it. Have you tried moving it to a "darker" part of the tank? See if they bounce back after a few days or a week.

I have not tried to move it, it has attached to the surrounding rock since last dipping. I guess it has spread out some but it seemed to have melted in some places to me.
 

McCarrick

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That's interesting! What's a better way to do that? I have a few nassarius snails in there to help, but I rarely turn it over by hand unless I'm cleaning it. I was looking at ways to knock the PO4 back down to around .1 earlier and then stumbled on this from a BRS video too. Anyone have a good recommendation like Phosphate RX or something, I've tried to limit feedings and just added a skimmer 2 weeks ago.

IMG_3828.jpg
I'm honestly not sure! I am trying to find a process to do that myself also. Narrisus snails should help. Maybe a sand sifting goby if that's something you're interested in.
I just watch that video actually! I think that they actually had a typo and it should be .05
 
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bartizzle

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I'm honestly not sure! I am trying to find a process to do that myself also. Narrisus snails should help. Maybe a sand sifting goby if that's something you're interested in.
I just watch that video actually! I think that they actually had a typo and it should be .05
Well to that, I just added a big piece of PolyPad filter (claims it removes organics and phosphates), turned my skimmer up a bit, forced another auto water change of about 15%, and was considering Phosphate RX.
 
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Well to that, I just added a big piece of PolyPad filter (claims it removes organics and phosphates), turned my skimmer up a bit, forced another auto water change of about 15%, and was considering Phosphate RX.
I havent haed phosphate RX. My tank is also still new (not first tank but no phosphate issues yet) but I'm using GFO. Still deciding if its worth it or not
 
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bartizzle

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I havent haed phosphate RX. My tank is also still new (not first tank but no phosphate issues yet) but I'm using GFO. Still deciding if its worth it or not

I'm limited with the AIO type Biocube. I've often wondered if people route water out of these into reactors/scrubbers/canisters etc. I can't go without the lid whatever I do and it's pretty packed with 2 heaters, controller, media basket, tons of bio media, skimmer, ATO, AWC, and upgraded return pump.
 

McCarrick

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I'm limited with the AIO type Biocube. I've often wondered if people route water out of these into reactors/scrubbers/canisters etc. I can't go without the lid whatever I do and it's pretty packed with 2 heaters, controller, media basket, tons of bio media, skimmer, ATO, AWC, and upgraded return pump.
You should be able to put it in the first chamber on the right in the media basket. I just upgraded from a 16 gallon biocube so I'm fairly familiar with them.
 

Spieg

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It's possible that the light intensity might be too much for it. Have you tried moving it to a "darker" part of the tank? See if they bounce back after a few days or a week.
This is what I'm leaning toward. Those polyps look flat like pancakes. That's usually due to too much light. Usually zoas grow longer stalks when they're trying to reach for more light. Might be worth using a PAR meter to take some measurements.
 
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bartizzle

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More flow for longer skirts....they may need more light. But you may want to try dosing iodide (iodine)

I've been considering iodine, it's showing a little low but I've only recently acquired the test kit.


This is what I'm leaning toward. Those polyps look flat like pancakes. That's usually due to too much light. Usually zoas grow longer stalks when they're trying to reach for more light. Might be worth using a PAR meter to take some measurements.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the LED Biocubes, but what would you expect to be about right for daytime hours of light?
 

Spieg

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I'm not sure how familiar you are with the LED Biocubes, but what would you expect to be about right for daytime hours of light?
I'm not... but as a rule of thumb, Zoas generally require significantly less light than most SPS (you mentioned you maxed your lighting out to accommodate your SPS corals). Most Zoas are happy with 100-150 PAR, although there are some species that do require more.
 
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bartizzle

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I'm not... but as a rule of thumb, Zoas generally require significantly less light than most SPS (you mentioned you maxed your lighting out to accommodate your SPS corals). Most Zoas are happy with 100-150 PAR, although there are some species that do require more.
Basically the Biocube LEDs have 3 settings, Blues (moon), Colors (sunset/sunrise), Brights (day/sun).

I'm only running the intense daylight for 3 hours.



This is a quote from the manufacturer and the photo below is one that I've seen online.

New LED Coralife BioCube size 32 features a new, modern design. Compatible with all existing BioCube accessories from Coralife.

*Average output at 12-inches

  • PAR* 53
  • Peak PAR* 81
  • LUX* 2200
  • Peak LUX* 3430


imagejpeg_0.jpg
 
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bartizzle

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Here's a video of the entire tank for reference. Nothing is really glued down, not sure what direction we'll be going here (or at this rate, not sure what will survive). I put this up in my thread about my dying hammers too.

 
BRS

Do you prefer rubble rock, larger rocks or no rock in your sump and why?

  • Rubble

    Votes: 102 34.6%
  • Larger Rock

    Votes: 81 27.5%
  • Nothing

    Votes: 77 26.1%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 35 11.9%
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