0.1N Hydrochloric Acid

[spsick]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, can you explain for the simpleton what 0.1N and 0.1M mean?

Are they the same?

Trying to make a DIY or cheaper reagent for my KH Director. I see what appear to be higher concentrations of HCL for much cheaper by the gallon and gather it’s just diluted to make the .1N which sells for more, and I have an abundance of RO water available I can dilute with to a known concentration (if that’s what the 0.1N indicates)

 

[dwest]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, can you explain for the simpleton what 0.1N and 0.1M mean?

Are they the same?

Trying to make a DIY or cheaper reagent for my KH Director. I see what appear to be higher concentrations of HCL for much cheaper by the gallon and gather it’s just diluted to make the .1N which sells for more, and I have an abundance of RO water available I can dilute with to a known concentration (if that’s what the 0.1N indicates)

They are the same for HCl (one H). They would not be the same for a diprotic acid like H2SO4 (2 H’s)

 

[BeanAnimal]

A good question for @Randy Holmes-Farley in this context:

For these dilutions is our typical RO/DI water suitable or would you recommend reagent/lab grade water, grocery store distilled, etc.?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, can you explain for the simpleton what 0.1N and 0.1M mean?

Are they the same?

Trying to make a DIY or cheaper reagent for my KH Director. I see what appear to be higher concentrations of HCL for much cheaper by the gallon and gather it’s just diluted to make the .1N which sells for more, and I have an abundance of RO water available I can dilute with to a known concentration (if that’s what the 0.1N indicates)

Sure.

M stands for molar or moles per liter.

A mole is literally 6.02 x 10^23 individual somethings. Could be atoms, ions, molecules, or even actual mole animals that dig in the ground. lol

A mole is a unit of measure scientists like because it connects the microscopic world of atoms to real world weights and measures.

The ultimate definition arises by defining one mole of the carbon-12 isotope of carbon actually weighing 12 grams. That number, called Avagadro's number, is 6.02 x 10^23. A huge number that would be ridiculous for ordinary use.

How many chloride ions are in seawater? If folks went around saying 3 x 10^23 per liter, that gets cumbersome fast. But if someone says 0.5 moles per liter, or M, that's much easier to do calculations, etc.

Molar is a far better unit for scientists to use than is grams or mg or whatever when talking about ions interacting. 1 mole of sodium always combines with 1 mole of chloride to make sodium chloride. But since sodium and chloride weigh different amounts, the weight based interactions are never 1:1 and are always more complicated.

So back to acids. 1 M HCl means one mole of HCl per liter. Since the molecular weight of HCl is 36.5 grams per mole, 1 M HCl means 36.5 gramds of HCl per liter. FWIW, the 36.5 is not an integer because there are several isotopes of chlorine, each with its own integer (or close to integer) molecular weight, that are present in ordinary HCl.

OK, so then 0.1 M means 3.65 g HCL/L.

N is a different, and even more useful number in some contexts. It stands for Normal. It can apply to a number of different things, but in the case of an acid or base, it means how much acid (or base) is present.

For HCl, where there is exactly 1 H+ that comes from one HCL, then 1 M = 1 N.

But for other acids, we may get more than 1 h+ from one molecule.

Sulfuric acid is H2SO4. It is a very strong acid and both H come off:

H2SO4 --> 2H+ + SO4--

Thus, 1 M Sulfuric acids is 2 N.

In reality one could say that 1 M H+ always equals 1 N, and thus N in this case is an exact measure of the acid present, regardless of how it was made.

1M HCl = 0.5 M H2SO4 = 1 N

For doing alk titrations, some folks may use HCl, and some may use sulfuric acid, and if the concentration is always given as N, then it doesn't matter which is used.

Hope thqt makes sense. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

A good question for @Randy Holmes-Farley in this context:

For these dilutions is our typical RO/DI water suitable or would you recommend reagent/lab grade water, grocery store distilled, etc.?

For diluting an acid for use in an alk test? RO/DI water will be adequate, as is distilled. CO2 entering should not be any issue. Tap water may not, since it may have substantial alkalinity, depleting the acid in the titrant.

 

[spsick]

Sure.

M stands for molar or moles per liter.

A mole is literally 6.02 x 10^23 individual somethings. Could be atoms, ions, molecules, or even actual mole animals that dig in the ground. lol

A mole is a unit of measure scientists like because it connects the microscopic world of atoms to real world weights and measures.

The ultimate definition arises by defining one mole of the carbon-12 isotope of carbon actually weighing 12 grams. That number, called Avagadro's number, is 6.02 x 10^23. A huge number that would be ridiculous for ordinary use.

How many chloride ions are in seawater? If folks went around saying 3 x 10^23 per liter, that gets cumbersome fast. But if someone says 0.5 moles per liter, or M, that's much easier to do calculations, etc.

Molar is a far better unit for scientists to use than is grams or mg or whatever when talking about ions interacting. 1 mole of sodium always combines with 1 mole of chloride to make sodium chloride. But since sodium and chloride weigh different amounts, the weight based interactions are never 1:1 and are always more complicated.

So back to acids. 1 M HCl means one mole of HCl per liter. Since the molecular weight of HCl is 36.5 grams per mole, 1 M HCl means 36.5 gramds of HCl per liter. FWIW, the 36.5 is not an integer because there are several isotopes of chlorine, each with its own integer (or close to integer) molecular weight, that are present in ordinary HCl.

OK, so then 0.1 M means 3.65 g HCL/L.

N is a different, and even more useful number in some contexts. It stands for Normal. It can apply to a number of different things, but in the case of an acid or base, it means how much acid (or base) is present.

For HCl, where there is exactly 1 H+ that comes from one HCL, then 1 M = 1 N.

But for other acids, we may get more than 1 h+ from one molecule.

Sulfuric acid is H2SO4. It is a very strong acid and both H come off:

H2SO4 --> 2H+ + SO4--

Thus, 1 M Sulfuric acids is 2 N.

In reality one could say that 1 M H+ always equals 1 N, and thus N in this case is an exact measure of the acid present, regardless of how it was made.

1M HCl = 0.5 M H2SO4 = 1 N

For doing alk titrations, some folks may use HCl, and some may use sulfuric acid, and if the concentration is always given as N, then it doesn't matter which is used.

Hope thqt makes sense. :)

Yowza ok thanks Randy!

So is there an easy way to dilute 0.5N or 5N down to 0.1N?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yowza ok thanks Randy!

So is there an easy way to dilute 0.5N or 5N down to 0.1N?

Yes, 1 part 0.5 N plus 4 parts RO/DI gives 0.1 N.

 

[BeanAnimal]

For diluting an acid for use in an alk test? RO/DI water will be adequate, as is distilled. CO2 entering should not be any issue. Tap water may not, since it may have substantial alkalinity, depleting the acid in the titrant.

Thank you.

 

[spsick]

Yes, 1 part 0.5 N plus 4 parts RO/DI gives 0.1 N.

Oh wow it is that simple ok thanks again!

I figured I’d be breaking down percentages at least haha!

 

[klvnnunez]

Jumping in in this thread. I just bought the KH Director and buying the reagent doesn'nt seem cst effective. If I'm understanding correctly .1N of Hydrochloric Acid mixed with 1 part of RODI water? Now the question is, what is 1 part RODI water in terms of ml or ounces? Or does this means that if using .1N I don't need to dilute it?

Thanks

 

[mook1178]

A good question for @Randy Holmes-Farley in this context:

For these dilutions is our typical RO/DI water suitable or would you recommend reagent/lab grade water, grocery store distilled, etc.?

Most labs use Ro/DI water. Some that have more stringent needs in purified water will use Milli Q water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Jumping in in this thread. I just bought the KH Director and buying the reagent doesn'nt seem cst effective. If I'm understanding correctly .1N of Hydrochloric Acid mixed with 1 part of RODI water? Now the question is, what is 1 part RODI water in terms of ml or ounces? Asking because I'm ready to pull the trigger in the hydrochloric acid.

Thanks

To dilute 0.1 N HCl to 0.05 N HCl, you combine equal weights or equal volumes of 0.1 N HCL and RO/DI water. The potential errors from mass measurement (from a small density differences) are far smaller than are meaningful.

 

[mook1178]

Jumping in in this thread. I just bought the KH Director and buying the reagent doesn'nt seem cst effective. If I'm understanding correctly .1N of Hydrochloric Acid mixed with 1 part of RODI water? Now the question is, what is 1 part RODI water in terms of ml or ounces? Asking because I'm ready to pull the trigger in the hydrochloric acid.

Thanks

If you are adding 1part of X to 3 parts of Y, basically means to add 3x the amount of Y compared to X. Parts could be cups, oz, mL, pounds, etc.

 

[klvnnunez]

If you are adding 1part of X to 3 parts of Y, basically means to add 3x the amount of Y compared to X. Parts could be cups, oz, mL, pounds, etc.

Awesome. So for using hydrochloric acid .01N, do I need to dilute 1 to 1 or use it as is since its .01N?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Awesome. So for using hydrochloric acid .01N, do I need to dilute 1 to 1 or use it as is since its .01N?

Your question seems to deviate from your last question. Are you starting with 0.1 N or 0.01 N?

 

[klvnnunez]

Your question seems to deviate from your last question. Are you starting with 0.1 N or 0.01 N?

I'm sorry if I getting things confused. I will be starting with

Hydrochloric acid, 0,1 M (0,1 N) titrated solution VSA​

 

[mook1178]

Awesome. So for using hydrochloric acid .01N, do I need to dilute 1 to 1 or use it as is since its .01N?

M1*V1=M2*V2

Here you know the molarity of and are looking for a molarity of a known volume. This will tell you how much of the original molarity to use. So if going from 0.1 M to 1 liter of 0.01M, the equation would be:

0.1*V1 = 0.01* 1

Cross multiply and solve for V1. This is the amount of the 0.1 M HCl you will use. The rest of the 1 L will be filled with DI water. Remember to Add acid to water not water to acid.

So with this example you will need 100 ml of the 0.1 HCl. I would add the 100 ml of 0.1 M HCl to 500 ml of DI water. Then fill with DI water to 1000 ml

 

[klvnnunez]

M1*V1=M2*V2

Here you know the molarity of and are looking for a molarity of a known volume. This will tell you how much of the original molarity to use. So if going from 0.1 M to 1 liter of 0.01M, the equation would be:

0.1*V1 = 0.01* 1

Cross multiply and solve for V1. This is the amount of the 0.1 M HCl you will use. The rest of the 1 L will be filled with DI water. Remember to Add acid to water not water to acid.

So with this example you will need 100 ml of the 0.1 HCl. I would add the 100 ml of 0.1 M HCl to 500 ml of DI water. Then fill with DI water to 1000 ml

Awesome!

recaping to make sure I got it.

100ml of .1 HCI to 500ml of RODI water. Then add another 500ml of RODI water to a total of 1000ml. Is this correct?

 

[spsick]

Awesome!

recaping to make sure I got it.

100ml of .1 HCI to 500ml of RODI water. Then add another 500ml of RODI water to a total of 1000ml. Is this correct?

.1 N HCL is ready to use for the GHL KHD, no dilution needed.

My question that started this thread was how to make .1N from .5N, which Randy answered in post #7. I have been using this for months and it’s measuring within a couple points of my Salifert test.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Awesome!

recaping to make sure I got it.

100ml of .1 HCI to 500ml of RODI water. Then add another 500ml of RODI water to a total of 1000ml. Is this correct?

That sentence has a math or grammer issue.

If you mean

100ml of .1 HCI added to 400 ml of RODI water. Then add another 500ml of RODI water to a total of 1000ml.

then that makes 0.01 N. :)