10 year old clown fish is very ill. Please help ASAP. May die...

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
Guys I've ordered every last thing thing on the cocktail list and paid any and everything to have it here tomorrow. Should I still use the API body cure today? I'm thinking about putting the fish back in my main display restarting the hospital tank again. Please help. I've know this fish a large part of my life. I'll buy pay anything to heal the fish.
YES
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
On the box it says for fresh water. So I can't use this one anyway
OK - so - you can use doxycycline in a marine environment. Here is the thing. (no offense) - you need to stop asking questions - and make a choice. What I said was 'if Doxycycline is your only choice - use it'. It may not be the 'best choice'. Frankly - since no one here knows what yoru fish has (despite posts to the contrary) - thats why the 'trifecta' was recommended. But - its like using a nuclear bomb to get rid of a hornets nest.

Thats not bad - its just that its very hard without a microscope/lab to try to figure out whats going on.

Doxycline is a reasonable 'stopgap' until you get the rest of the stuff.

BTW - IMHO - one of the problems with 'fish medications' is people say 'use ruby reef rally'

well - thats formaldehyde etc. Use Maracyn - well thats minocycline (I think) - it would really do this hobby a favor if people would use the names of the antibiotics the are recommending... Yes - including Metroplex (metronidazole), etc etc, etc
 

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
BTW - didnt mean this to come across as harsh yes - I would use the doxycycline. When you get the stuff tomorrow - change the water - and use those medications. Realize this is stressful for you - and sorry you're going through this.
 

Durandal

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
60
Reaction score
71
Another vote for brook here. Brook parasites feast on the flesh on the outside of the fish, so skin infections are a common feature of advanced brook, especially if the fish was in peak condition prior to infection and so has survived a protracted battle with the parasite. Reef rally or other reactive aldehyde containing bath followed by a slow copper ramp in a clean hospital tank with antibiotics should be done immediately. Watch out for ammonia.

Unless you isolated your new BTA for 45-72 days in a fallow tank, I would say that the brook likely came in with it. The odds of bringing in an ectoparasite with inverts these days seems to be well over 50%.

Consider this, if your fish has brook, then the white coating you see on your fish will promptly vanish after a rally bath as it is rapidly lethal to 99.9% of the parasites, in fact sometimes a rally bath and a transfer to a clean tank is curative in an of itself, even without subsequent copper treatment. You will have saved your fish from a disease that can turn lethal in a matter of days and diagnosed the cause. If it doesn't have brook, then the rally bath is essentially harmless. You really have nothing to lose except the 10$ for a bottle of reef rally by treating for brook. Nothing about a rally bath contradicts the use of antibiotics.

Some hard talk:
As others have said, this fish has lived a long good life! If it turns out this is simply their time, though it is hard, don't let your friend suffer in the end. If you do that memory can hurt more then the loss itself.

Good luck.

-Durandal
 
Corals.com
OP
B

Blueskys001

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
69
Another vote for brook here. Brook parasites feast on the flesh on the outside of the fish, so skin infections are a common feature of advanced brook, especially if the fish was in peak condition prior to infection and so has survived a protracted battle with the parasite. Reef rally or other reactive aldehyde containing bath followed by a slow copper ramp in a clean hospital tank with antibiotics should be done immediately. Watch out for ammonia.

Unless you isolated your new BTA for 45-72 days in a fallow tank, I would say that the brook likely came in with it. The odds of bringing in an ectoparasite with inverts these days seems to be well over 50%.

Consider this, if your fish has brook, then the white coating you see on your fish will promptly vanish after a rally bath as it is rapidly lethal to 99.9% of the parasites, in fact sometimes a rally bath and a transfer to a clean tank is curative in an of itself, even without subsequent copper treatment. You will have saved your fish from a disease that can turn lethal in a matter of days and diagnosed the cause. If it doesn't have brook, then the rally bath is essentially harmless. You really have nothing to lose except the 10$ for a bottle of reef rally by treating for brook. Nothing about a rally bath contradicts the use of antibiotics.

Some hard talk:
As others have said, this fish has lived a long good life! If it turns out this is simply their time, though it is hard, don't let your friend suffer in the end. If you do that memory can hurt more then the loss itself.

Good luck.

-Durandal
Hi got RBTA after fish was already showing illness. On the box of the other stuff it says "fresh water use only." API body cure. At least the one my Dad bought. Sorry for asking so many questions but you have to keep in mind no one knows what's wrong with my fish. I know it's not brooks or velvet I seen those and brooks would have to have been attacking him for weeks.

I'm going to go with the cocktail tomorrow. Yes 10 years a long time but I read some have lived 20 years and I don't want to lose this guy.
 
OP
B

Blueskys001

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
69
I know for a fact those leathers played a factor in the illness of my fish. He kept getting skin irritations that would just come and go from rubbing into his home.

Then with open wounds and the toxins the leathers give off it just all adds up.
 

Durandal

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
60
Reaction score
71
Be careful about what you think you know. I will say as a working scientist that certainty about what we think we know often keeps us from seeing what is right in front of us. Often excellent alternative hypotheses go untested because an investigator is so certain that their favored hypothesis is correct that they lose all interest in exploring other possibilities.

In fact, our human tendency to be confident about what we think we know has been one of the greatest historical impediments to scientific progress.

Try and keep an open mind; I will say it again, you have nothing to lose from trying a rally bath in conjunction with your other efforts.
 

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
Be careful about what you think you know. I will say as a working scientist that certainty about what we think we know often keeps us from seeing what is right in front of us. Often excellent alternative hypotheses go untested because an investigator is so certain that their favored hypothesis is correct that they lose all interest in exploring other possibilities.

In fact, our human tendency to be confident about what we think we know has been one of the greatest historical impediments to scientific progress.

Try and keep an open mind; I will say it again, you have nothing to lose from trying a rally bath in conjunction with your other efforts.
His other efforts include other aldehyde based treatments. - though at low dose.
 

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
Frankly - no one here - including myself - knows If its brook or a bacterial infection. The other thing that most people done know - is even if it was proven to be Brook - what the survivability would be. Besides the fact that every time a clownfish is sick - people say its brook - what is the evidence:? What it the evidence against that its brook? In any case the fish has been at least partially treated for brook
 
OP
B

Blueskys001

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
69
His other efforts include other aldehyde based treatments. - though at low dose.
Thanks for the post. Maybe tomorrow I'll take more photos. I'm not a denier of brooks but it doesn't add up. Also the fish hasnt done any flashing that fish with parasites do. No lumps or white spots. It's what looks like rough old work down skin. I'm certain over the years those leathers caused that. He likes to host hard.

The fish isn't that listless and still can move quickly when I take out the in eaten food which has been all of it besides today I got him excited and eat two pellets of hex shield.

Tomorrow I will be going with the "bomb" treatment which scared me so many medications that sound powerful. How do you keep the ammonia down with that treatment? I didn't find any instructions I do have prime for that. Also do you remove all biological filtration?

thanks
 

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
Thanks for the post. Maybe tomorrow I'll take more photos. I'm not a denier of brooks but it doesn't add up. Also the fish hasnt done any flashing that fish with parasites do. No lumps or white spots. It's what looks like rough old work down skin. I'm certain over the years those leathers caused that. He likes to host hard.

The fish isn't that listless and still can move quickly when I take out the in eaten food which has been all of it besides today I got him excited and eat two pellets of hex shield.

Tomorrow I will be going with the "bomb" treatment which scared me so many medications that sound powerful. How do you keep the ammonia down with that treatment? I didn't find any instructions I do have prime for that. Also do you remove all biological filtration?

thanks
You use water changes - with an 'ammonia badge'. BTW - I have never done this much for a clown. Maybe @bluprntguy could add what he would do - he thinks this is surely brook - and he may be right - I just dont know - having never had a case
 
OP
B

Blueskys001

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
69
You use water changes - with an 'ammonia badge'. BTW - I have never done this much for a clown. Maybe @bluprntguy could add what he would do - he thinks this is surely brook - and he may be right - I just dont know - having never had a case
Thanks
I also bought a bottle of fluval instant bacterial cycle. I wonder if it's safe to use with the medications
 

Bleigh

The lich queen
View Badges
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
3,002
Reaction score
9,871
Location
Charlotte
Hi guys, thanks for all the replies. I'm trying my hardest to save the fish. Its been in the hospital tank for 3 days now and wont eat swims head first down nearly all day besides at night when I see the fish swimming sideways sometimes. I think something might have spread to the bladder because of some bounces issues also the gills I noticed were inflamed around the same time and shes breathing heavy for the past 3 days. It looks like the entire fishes is being affected. The only things ok are the eyes, nose and head are perfectly clear. I've been treating with paraguard on day 3 no improvement it said in their forums to treat "a wide range of bacterial infections." Now I can see the fish up close there are zero not one white bumps or spots on the fish. Brooks/velvet all of them are out. I'm thinking about switching to API Furan 2. I read online if one bactericidal medication doesn't work after 3 days switch to another. Any thoughts? Far as buying a microscope and scrapping the fish I don't exactly want to do that that could kill the fish. Any thoughts?
Don’t scrape it hard. You just need to run the side of the fish. Shouldn’t cause it any discomfort. If it does, you’re doing it wrong. ;)
 

Katrina71

Learn, Laugh, Love
View Badges
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
22,425
Reaction score
97,696
I'm sorry for your heartache and worry. 10 years is a long time to care about a fish.
 

Bbfishb81

Member
View Badges
Joined
May 5, 2019
Messages
51
Reaction score
48
Biggest thing to watch with using actual meds is for positive and negative gram. If it is negative gram, please remember to dose bacteria daily as it kills off some of your necessary bacteria in the tank.
 

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
7,956
Biggest thing to watch with using actual meds is for positive and negative gram. If it is negative gram, please remember to dose bacteria daily as it kills off some of your necessary bacteria in the tank.
This is a nice sentiment:). But its not true.

Whether gram positives or gram negatives are killed depends on the particular medications used. Id its the 'trifecta' - it will be gram positive, negatives and anaerobes. IN which case - the entire filter will be hurt..

This is a good point though - depending on whats in yoru filter - any antibiotic can cause peoblems.
 

resortez

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
195
Reaction score
107
Location
los angeles, ca
Out of curiosity, what temperature are you running on the QT? What’s the salinity? If it’s some type of parasite, I would bump the temperature to 85. In my experience, Protozoas don’t like high temperatures & others don’t like fresh water dips, ie fluke & such. I would also drop the gravity to 17. Looks like the disease needs to be attack from every angle. Hopefully it helps.
 

EmdeReef

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
2,723
Reaction score
4,199
Location
New York, NY
With respect to everyone posting and having debates, I would still think that based on the pictures it most likely resembles brooklynella. If you want a confirmation you will have to sedate the fish and take a sample under a properly prepared slide, happy to share further instructions. Getting a proper sample otherwise is difficult.

Fwiw a fish can live with brook for some time especially if it may have been present in a tank for a period of time, low stocking etc etc

The original treatment protocol includes formalin but ruby rally bath which does contain a very small concentration helps - likely due to acriflavine.

After that the fish should be treated with metro for about 2 weeks, 60mg/gal . If you don’t have ruby rally move to metro. The good news is that metro helps a number of other issues.

With respect to anyone who would like to be certain, almost all “proper” fish diagnostic procedures are done post mortem so unless you want to wait to be sure I would start treating.

Also, apologies but I’ve only skimmed through the updated posts and so if already tried metro I would move on to a combo of antibiotics.
 
Get Fish & Corals directly for the suppliers

Can you run a a successful reef long term without some type of reactor and media?

  • Yes

    Votes: 90 70.9%
  • No

    Votes: 15 11.8%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 22 17.3%

Online statistics

Members online
1,052
Guests online
2,733
Total visitors
3,785
Reef Kinetics
Battlecorals
Top