10000L Coral reef at The Maritime Museum & Aquarium Sweden

[Brew12]

Today readings in the 10000L tank! ;Bookworm
KH - 6,25 at lunch - Salifert
KH - 6,10 in the afternoon
NO3 - 2,5 ppm - Salifert
PO4 - 0 ppm - Hanna LR

Now things start to speed up after the heat period when some lights were turned off or down.
Nitrate was about 6 ppm a month ago. Phosphate has been low for a while(a coworker kind of overdosed GFO this summer..;Happy).
KH has dropped from 7dKH to 6 the last weeks. Increased Core7 and the dose from the calcium reactor, so now it's stable at least. I think KH is slowly raising, but we'll see next week. Never any big changes Friday afternoon!

My guess is that the corals has started to grow again, taking up nutrients and KH. At the same time I've dosed some carbon source in the frag tank with the NPS to promote some bacteria growth. Not much, but maybe that carbon source has driven the phosphate really low the last week, I think some of the corals looks a bit dull in colour.
So lowered to 1/5 of the carbon source now. I still want some in that frag tank.

Now it's time for weekend!

I hope you have a wonderful weekend!

 

[Sallstrom]

Enjoy your weekend.

I hope you have a wonderful weekend!

Thanks! You too!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Enjoy your weekend.

Don't suck up to him. Hey Sallstrom, enjoy your weekend. Really enjoy it.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

@najer, I'm kidding

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

@najer I picked on you, cause @Brew12 has all those titles, don't want to pass him off. Heehee

 

[najer]

@najer I picked on you, cause @Brew12 has all those titles, don't want to pass him off. Heehee

I'm English, I'm used to being picked on!

 

[A. grandis]

What I don't get is if there is a difference in the photons from a LED or Metal halide? When I try to thing logical, in my head it's makes sense that if you choose the right LED diod combination you can mimic a metal halide light. Now I only think of the spectrum, not the distribution. You want say 300-400nm, use a diod for that and add to the rest of the diods?

And looking through our meassurments it's quite clear that the peaks over 800nm is in the air, when we meassured in the water these peaks are mostly gone. That means a lot of energy just goes to waste(or to heat). Is the heat(or IR light) not something that whould be good to aviod?

When it comes to distribution I agree, a metal halide with a good reflector is hard to beat. I think that is something that needs to be improved a lot when it comes to LEDs. I've seen a LED fixtures with great and very even distribution of light, but thats not an aquarium LED.

It always hard when it comes to observations. We all have our preconcieved ideas of what's "best". And if you want a "coral growth competiti0n" between metal halides and LED, how do you compare them? Gram/day/watt?

I admit, starting a new large tank, the most "save" way to go IMO is to use large metal halides with good reflectors. But since we're trying to save energy and want to aviod changings 30 MH bulbs every 9 months, we are willing to try to go all LED. If thats a good idea, I don't know yet

I get back with some more corals and mangroves soon!

/ David

Ok, talking only about spectrum (light in the natural environment isn't only about spectrum, but lets isolate the subject)...
Everyone see their goals for their reefs differently.
Whatever you choose for your application is what's best for you, based on your studies and opinion.
It's all good.
There is infra-red and thermal infra-red.
Corals utilize infra-red for their metabolism. The heat is transmitted to the water and also dispersed in the air.
Some LED companies are trying to have some IR LEDs in their fixtures for that reason. Just like UV.
Here:
https://orphek.com/atlantik-v4-reef-aquarium-led-lighting/

I hope you get what you desire out of your LEDs. That's what matters the most!!
Many people are very satisfied with their LED lit tanks at home.

You don't need to change halides every 9 months. Some of the bulbs will last 18 months easy. 12 months is good enough.

Here is a good video with the basics:

You can watch the video and take your own conclusions about it and decide what is the best light fixture for your tanks.
By the way... this guy in the video is the one who invented the very first LED fixture for a reef tank.
Cheers!

 

[A. grandis]

On request, here's my current list of our Acropora species. All of them are not in the 10000L display, but I in the same system as that tank. Some we only have a couple of frags from, some 50 kilos
All species are my guesses. There are five more species that I don't even have guesses on yet.
I think 12 DNA samples on our Acropora were sent in this week for analysis in Germany. We hope they find some DNA to compare with earlier studies. If we get results we know our method is good for Acropora and can send more samples.
Our picture library is just for our own use, not very good pictures

Acropora yongei
Acropora austera
Acropora tumida
Acropora nana
Acropora echinata
Acropora formosa
Acropora turtusa, A gomezi
Acropoar formosa, Acropora yongei
Acropora selago
Acropora valida
Acropora hyacinthus
Acropora loisetteae
Acropora florida
Acropora carduus
Acropora efflorecens
Acropora tenuis
Acropora microclados (one version)
Acropora millepora
Acropora intermedia
Acropora aculeus
Acropora humilis
Acropora spathulata
Acropora microclados(strawberry shortcake version)

Great list!! Too bad no more pictures.
I'm sure many here would love to see them.
Have a great weekend and thanks again for being so nice and sharing your info with us.

 

[Sallstrom]

Ok, talking only about spectrum (light in the natural environment isn't only about spectrum, but lets isolate the subject)...
Everyone see their goals for their reefs differently.
Whatever you choose for your application is what's best for you, based on your studies and opinion.
It's all good.
There is infra-red and thermal infra-red.
Corals utilize infra-red for their metabolism. The heat is transmitted to the water and also dispersed in the air.
Some LED companies are trying to have some IR LEDs in their fixtures for that reason. Just like UV.
Here:
https://orphek.com/atlantik-v4-reef-aquarium-led-lighting/

I hope you get what you desire out of your LEDs. That's what matters the most!!
Many people are very satisfied with their LED lit tanks at home.

You don't need to change halides every 9 months. Some of the bulbs will last 18 months easy. 12 months is good enough.

Here is a good video with the basics:

You can watch the video and take your own conclusions about it and decide what is the best light fixture for your tanks.
By the way... this guy in the video is the one who invented the very first LED fixture for a reef tank.
Cheers!

Thanks! He's a great speaker and pedagogue. I think I saw it last year, but now I've seen it again

I understand your point, light from metal halides cover more wavelengths. That might be important, or not.
I know they get Acropora to spawn with Radion LEDs at Horniman Museum & Gardens in London for example. So that can be done. If they would be healthier under metal halides, who knows

I had a couple of coral species grow under just red and blue for three months. They grew a lot and looked like most corals do when they are healthy in my eyes. So I don't think you need all wavelengths to get corals to grow well (I'm pretty sure after that experiment for example).
Some corals even survive and grow under just red light. I've tested that too. They didn't get great colours though..
The hard question is how do we know what the coral likes best?


I took some corals pictures yesterday! This is from the 2000L room divider reef. It's easier to get okey photos on a smaller tank. Not all our Acropora species are in this tank, but many.
Both metal halides and LEDs over this tank. And two small T5 in one end actually. So it's really a mix

 

[Brew12]

Thanks! He's a great speaker and pedagogue. I think I saw it last year, but now I've seen it again

I understand your point, light from metal halides cover more wavelengths. That might be important, or not.
I know they get Acropora to spawn with Radion LEDs at Horniman Museum & Gardens in London for example. So that can be done. If they would be healthier under metal halides, who knows

I had a couple of coral species grow under just red and blue for three months. They grew a lot and looked like most corals do when they are healthy in my eyes. So I don't think you need all wavelengths to get corals to grow well (I'm pretty sure after that experiment for example).
Some corals even survive and grow under just red light. I've tested that too. They didn't get great colours though..
The hard question is how do we know what the coral likes best?


I took some corals pictures yesterday! This is from the 2000L room divider reef. It's easier to get okey photos on a smaller tank. Not all our Acropora species are in this tank, but many.
Both metal halides and LEDs over this tank. And two small T5 in one end actually. So it's really a mix

;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool

Some day my corals will be more than nubs....

 

[Sallstrom]

;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool;Drool

Some day my corals will be more than nubs....

This tank is more than ten years old! Sooner or later the corals start to grow

 

[Brew12]

This tank is more than ten years old! Sooner or later the corals start to grow

I shouldn't complain, most of my corals are finally starting to take off although it will be a long time before they are anything like that. I only have a stubborn few that have been in my tank for months with little to no change.

Getting some lighting help regarding the red spectrum has done my tanks wonders. The research you guys have done was beyond helpful.

 

[najer]

Thanks! He's a great speaker and pedagogue. I think I saw it last year, but now I've seen it again

I understand your point, light from metal halides cover more wavelengths. That might be important, or not.
I know they get Acropora to spawn with Radion LEDs at Horniman Museum & Gardens in London for example. So that can be done. If they would be healthier under metal halides, who knows

I had a couple of coral species grow under just red and blue for three months. They grew a lot and looked like most corals do when they are healthy in my eyes. So I don't think you need all wavelengths to get corals to grow well (I'm pretty sure after that experiment for example).
Some corals even survive and grow under just red light. I've tested that too. They didn't get great colours though..
The hard question is how do we know what the coral likes best?


I took some corals pictures yesterday! This is from the 2000L room divider reef. It's easier to get okey photos on a smaller tank. Not all our Acropora species are in this tank, but many.
Both metal halides and LEDs over this tank. And two small T5 in one end actually. So it's really a mix

Nice, that really helped my inferiority complex!?
Stunning!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Guys here's new one to me. Chemo synthesis in the ocean. @Sallstrom ask your new workers they know. Heehee

 

[Sallstrom]

Nice, that really helped my inferiority complex!?
Stunning!

Thanks! Hehe.. Yea, but I've had two large frag tanks to pick corals from to this tank the last five years. So it's almost cheating

 

[Sallstrom]

Guys here's new one to me. Chemo synthesis in the ocean. @Sallstrom ask your new workers they know. Heehee

Yes, maybe try to create a tank with a hydrothermal vent!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Look what i found, 150gal. Round tank

With round tank, going to do like oil rig pillar thats used to hold rig. For dendronephthya corals be attached onto.

 

[A. grandis]

Thanks! He's a great speaker and pedagogue. I think I saw it last year, but now I've seen it again

I understand your point, light from metal halides cover more wavelengths. That might be important, or not.

It is important if you want to try your best to duplicate what's out there (the sun)! But everyone has their own goals.

I know they get Acropora to spawn with Radion LEDs at Horniman Museum & Gardens in London for example. So that can be done. If they would be healthier under metal halides, who knows

In my opinion, in the long run, they would be much healthier under halides big time. Radions are poor lights IMPOV. I've seen corals spawning under T12 Corallife bulbs during the 90's. That doesn't mean they were healthier than if they were under halides either. Just my opinion by what I've seen in the last 20+ years. By the way, with the right application you can run a tank with those old T12s better than with most LEDs.

I had a couple of coral species grow under just red and blue for three months. They grew a lot and looked like most corals do when they are healthy in my eyes. So I don't think you need all wavelengths to get corals to grow well (I'm pretty sure after that experiment for example).
Some corals even survive and grow under just red light. I've tested that too. They didn't get great colours though..

As aquarists/biologists/hobbyists keeping reef tanks we should try to offer the very best we can to resemble the natural environment where we collected the corals from. I'm very sorry but those tests aren't plausible in my mind and totally unnecessary. Please don't take me wrong, with all the respect. Everyone does what they want. I know that.

The hard question is how do we know what the coral likes best?

Simple: They love the sun and daylight! That is the best!

I think we both exposed what we think about the lights already.
Will you be able to post the results of the other halides?
Thanks!!

I took some corals pictures yesterday! This is from the 2000L room divider reef. It's easier to get okey photos on a smaller tank. Not all our Acropora species are in this tank, but many.
Both metal halides and LEDs over this tank. And two small T5 in one end actually. So it's really a mix
...

Amazing. Thanks very much. Great pictures!!! Have a great weekend.

 

[Sallstrom]

It is important if you want to try your best to duplicate what's out there (the sun)! But everyone has their own goals.


In my opinion, in the long run, they would be much healthier under halides big time. Radions are poor lights IMPOV. I've seen corals spawning under T12 Corallife bulbs during the 90's. That doesn't mean they were healthier than if they were under halides either. Just my opinion by what I've seen in the last 20+ years. By the way, with the right application you can run a tank with those old T12s better than with most LEDs.

As aquarists/biologists/hobbyists keeping reef tanks we should try to offer the very best we can to resemble the natural environment where we collected the corals from. I'm very sorry but those tests aren't plausible in my mind and totally unnecessary. Please don't take me wrong, with all the respect. Everyone does what they want. I know that.


Simple: They love the sun and daylight! That is the best!

I think we both exposed what we think about the lights already.
Will you be able to post the results of the other halides?
Thanks!!


Amazing. Thanks very much. Great pictures!!! Have a great weekend.

I totally agree on that we should try to mimic a natural habitat as much as we can. That's why I like to chase numbers when it comes to water chemistry. I have no idea if Vanadium is important, but there's some I the ocean so we add it to our tanks

But when it comes to duplicate the sun, there are many options. A coral growing close to the surface are exposed to a different spectrum than a coral growing at four meter depth. In the morning the spectrum is different than at midday etc. It's not one spectrum that's the same everywhere. Maybe that's why corals are good at adapting to different lights in aquariums?

Comparing spectrums I would say the Plasma light is closer to the sun than those metal halides I've seen, but I haven't seen them all

I have only found one more spectrum measurement of a metal halide, I'll post it tomorrow(have it at work). We only had one or two brands of bulbs when we tested.

Thanks! You too!

/ David

 

[A. grandis]

I totally agree on that we should try to mimic a natural habitat as much as we can. That's why I like to chase numbers when it comes to water chemistry. I have no idea if Vanadium is important, but there's some I the ocean so we add it to our tanks

But when it comes to duplicate the sun, there are many options. A coral growing close to the surface are exposed to a different spectrum than a coral growing at four meter depth. In the morning the spectrum is different than at midday etc. It's not one spectrum that's the same everywhere. Maybe that's why corals are good at adapting to different lights in aquariums?

Comparing spectrums I would say the Plasma light is closer to the sun than those metal halides I've seen, but I haven't seen them all

I have only found one more spectrum measurement of a metal halide, I'll post it tomorrow(have it at work). We only had one or two brands of bulbs when we tested.

Thanks! You too!

/ David

Thanks very much!
I need to learn more about the chemistry you are doing. After a fast search I found out that the ocean has only about 0.0015 ppm of vanadium. I would think that percentage would vary from place to place too. What are the number found in coral reefs?
Please tell me more about this...
How do you dose?
How often?
What are the tests for it?
Why vanadium?
For corals?
Do you dose any other unusual elements?
Very interesting indeed. The only chemicals I knew were important for coral growth and health were the basics: calcium, alkalinity, strontium, potassium and magnesium. People nowadays are dosing iron and such, for colors... I like to dose amino acids and see good results. I need to spend some more time learning that new stuff.
I appreciate your writing. It's a pleasure to read and see the pictures too. Good thread!

I'm glad you'll post the halide graphs. I really appreciate. Thanks again. Have a good Sunday!