27c fallow

[Brad Coughlan]

Hi I am running fallow for ich and I'm about 4 weeks in but I saw Humble Fish mention that if you run the DT at 27 degrees c you can shorten it to 6. I am still planning on doing the full 76 day period however I want to do everything to kill the parasites in the DT incase I messed the fallow period up or something (which I didn't, but I just want the peice of mind)

Would bumping up from 25 to 27 c affect my nassarius snails, trochus snails, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, mushroom corals, frogspawn, candy cane

I just want to make sure it's okay with these species, thanks

 

[MnFish1]

Hi I am running fallow for ich and I'm about 4 weeks in but I saw Humble Fish mention that if you run the DT at 27 degrees c you can shorten it to 6. I am still planning on doing the full 76 day period however I want to do everything to kill the parasites in the DT incase I messed the fallow period up or something (which I didn't, but I just want the peice of mind)

Would bumping up from 25 to 27 c affect my nassarius snails, trochus snails, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, mushroom corals, frogspawn, candy cane

I just want to make sure it's okay with these species, thanks

Generally speaking 'probably not' if it was snails. Practically speaking, with the LPS I would not do it. It's just not worth the risk? However Humblefish may have a different answer - and if so - perhaps post on his site to confirm his opinion. Generally here - if it's a FOWLR, (no inverts) - and the fish are out, raising the temp will decrease the QT time. The current recommendations for 'normal' temperature are 60-76 days. If you can raise it 45 days

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi I am running fallow for ich and I'm about 4 weeks in but I saw Humble Fish mention that if you run the DT at 27 degrees c you can shorten it to 6. I am still planning on doing the full 76 day period however I want to do everything to kill the parasites in the DT incase I messed the fallow period up or something (which I didn't, but I just want the peice of mind)

Would bumping up from 25 to 27 c affect my nassarius snails, trochus snails, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, mushroom corals, frogspawn, candy cane

I just want to make sure it's okay with these species, thanks

Most invertebrates can handle 27 c. At that temperature, you would be safe at running fallow for sixty days. The 45 day idea works every time I've tried it, but there is obviously more risk. You need to determine why you want to run a shorter period - is your QT unstable or are you just impatient? If the latter, I would just resist the urge and go with 60 days.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Most invertebrates can handle 27 c. At that temperature, you would be safe at running fallow for sixty days. The 45 day idea works every time I've tried it, but there is obviously more risk. You need to determine why you want to run a shorter period - is your QT unstable or are you just impatient? If the latter, I would just resist the urge and go with 60 days.

Jay

I am still going to run the 76 day period, but I just want to run at 27c just because I want to know I am doing everything I can, I have not cross contaminated but I just want to make the risk of re infection 0% possible.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Generally speaking 'probably not' if it was snails. Practically speaking, with the LPS I would not do it. It's just not worth the risk? However Humblefish may have a different answer - and if so - perhaps post on his site to confirm his opinion. Generally here - if it's a FOWLR, (no inverts) - and the fish are out, raising the temp will decrease the QT time. The current recommendations for 'normal' temperature are 60-76 days. If you can raise it 45 days

Ok thanks for the input,
I will make a thread on his site now

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Hi I am running fallow for ich and I'm about 4 weeks in but I saw Humble Fish mention that if you run the DT at 27 degrees c you can shorten it to 6. I am still planning on doing the full 76 day period however I want to do everything to kill the parasites in the DT incase I messed the fallow period up or something (which I didn't, but I just want the peice of mind)

Would bumping up from 25 to 27 c affect my nassarius snails, trochus snails, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, mushroom corals, frogspawn, candy cane

I just want to make sure it's okay with these species, thanks

Ok so I have set the heater to 27C and I want to test the temperature over a few days, I have a digital thermometer but I am pretty sure I used it in the QT tank at the start of treatment, but that was well around 3 weeks ago. Is it safe to use that thermometer in the display tank without messing with the fallow period, or should I rinse it in freshwater or anything?

- Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok so I have set the heater to 27C and I want to test the temperature over a few days, I have a digital thermometer but I am pretty sure I used it in the QT tank at the start of treatment, but that was well around 3 weeks ago. Is it safe to use that thermometer in the display tank without messing with the fallow period, or should I rinse it in freshwater or anything?

- Thanks

Rinsing it in freshwater and letting it air dry would be prudent.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Rinsing it in freshwater and letting it air dry would be prudent.

Jay

Ok will do,

One other thing, not sure if I've asked you before on a previous thread but basically:

Copper treatment is complete and I followed dosing instructions + ran at that level for an extra week with the medication I used, ich is gone. But I have notice that the clownfish has had a few semi-distinct whiteish spots for at least over a week and they have not changed or disappeared then reappeared and have stayed in the same locations.

Here is one side of the fish with 3 of them:

Sorry for the bad camera quality, I actually used a magnifying glass and used my eyes and in most lighting conditions you can see that they are semi-distinct. There are also 2 on the other side of the fish, both not changed locations.

Any ideas what this could be? I am 99% sure it is not ich due to the nature of it. I have removed the copper via water changes and so far I've replaced about 80% of the water. Going to the LFS tomorrow so they can test copper.

- Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok will do,

One other thing, not sure if I've asked you before on a previous thread but basically:

Copper treatment is complete and I followed dosing instructions + ran at that level for an extra week with the medication I used, ich is gone. But I have notice that the clownfish has had a few semi-distinct whiteish spots for at least over a week and they have not changed or disappeared then reappeared and have stayed in the same locations.

Here is one side of the fish with 3 of them:

Sorry for the bad camera quality, I actually used a magnifying glass and used my eyes and in most lighting conditions you can see that they are semi-distinct. There are also 2 on the other side of the fish, both not changed locations.

Any ideas what this could be? I am 99% sure it is not ich due to the nature of it. I have removed the copper via water changes and so far I've replaced about 80% of the water. Going to the LFS tomorrow so they can test copper.

- Thanks

Sorry - I can't really make out much in the photo. I can tell you that it isn't ich though - those would change in number and location on the fish from day to day (or at least every 3 days). These are mostly likely minor scale damage.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Sorry - I can't really make out much in the photo. I can tell you that it isn't ich though - those would change in number and location on the fish from day to day (or at least every 3 days). These are mostly likely minor scale damage.

Jay

Ok, good to hear that

Copper is at 0.25ppm verified by LFS but I have changed around 80% of the water so its probably from leeching out of things in the tank. Could this copper potentially mask the effects of ich and appear once at 0ppm. I feel like I am just looking for issued at this point but I just want to verify that there is 0 parasites

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok, good to hear that

Copper is at 0.25ppm verified by LFS but I have changed around 80% of the water so its probably from leeching out of things in the tank. Could this copper potentially mask the effects of ich and appear once at 0ppm. I feel like I am just looking for issued at this point but I just want to verify that there is 0 parasites

Thanks

What copper are you using again? If amine-chelated, then no, 0.25 ppm would have no real inhibition against ich. If it is ionic copper (Cupramine) then that is just half a dose and it could inhibit ich.

Best to just watch the spots - if they stay in the same location for days, they are not ich trophonts.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

What copper are you using again? If amine-chelated, then no, 0.25 ppm would have no real inhibition against ich. If it is ionic copper (Cupramine) then that is just half a dose and it could inhibit ich.

Best to just watch the spots - if they stay in the same location for days, they are not ich trophonts.

Jay

Since many of the well known medications in the US like copper power and cupramine are harder to get in the UK, this is the only one that I could find and it is not very well known outside of the UK as far as I know.

I am leaning towards it being ionic copper since the treatment is over an 11 day period (I ran for an extra week)

However, the product does not say what level to keep the copper at which is very different compared to other treatments

The copper is mixed with formaldehyde, the ingredients are:
Copper sulfate - 1600 mg/100ml
Formaldehyde - 2400 mg/100ml

What I don't understand is how I've changed about around 70% of the water over around 2 weeks and it is still at 0.25, that level seems quite high if it is leeching from the seals of the tank or anything, unless I am wrong. But if that is abnormal, it makes me wonder what the copper level was at once it was at its full dosage

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Since many of the well known medications in the US like copper power and cupramine are harder to get in the UK, this is the only one that I could find and it is not very well known outside of the UK as far as I know.

I am leaning towards it being ionic copper since the treatment is over an 11 day period (I ran for an extra week)

However, the product does not say what level to keep the copper at which is very different compared to other treatments

The copper is mixed with formaldehyde, the ingredients are:
Copper sulfate - 1600 mg/100ml
Formaldehyde - 2400 mg/100ml

What I don't understand is how I've changed about around 70% of the water over around 2 weeks and it is still at 0.25, that level seems quite high if it is leeching from the seals of the tank or anything, unless I am wrong. But if that is abnormal, it makes me wonder what the copper level was at once it was at its full dosage

Sorry - I know of that product but have never used it. I think you might need to contact NT Labs directly.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Sorry - I know of that product but have never used it. I think you might need to contact NT Labs directly.

Jay

Yeah I contacted them the other week about what to do after the 11 days of dosing, they recommended to leave the full dosage in for as long as possible until water parameters suggest a water change is needed. I did the full 11 days of dosing and ran at that level for 7 days after the final dose, so I did more than the instructions suggested. Considering it suggests 11 days of dosing and does not actually say anything about leaving the copper in the water for longer, this makes me think it is ionic copper due to the short treatment time

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yeah I contacted them the other week about what to do after the 11 days of dosing, they recommended to leave the full dosage in for as long as possible until water parameters suggest a water change is needed. I did the full 11 days of dosing and ran at that level for 7 days after the final dose, so I did more than the instructions suggested. Considering it suggests 11 days of dosing and does not actually say anything about leaving the copper in the water for longer, this makes me think it is ionic copper due to the short treatment time

That dose suggested it is a copper sulfate/citric acid product (that is dosed at 0.20 ppm for 14 to 21 days). However, that type of treatment is very unstable and requires daily testing and partial redosing. Since you aren't doing that, and the copper has remaining stable, and apparently has even risen (given the water change) I really am at a loss to say what it is doing, sorry.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

That dose suggested it is a copper sulfate/citric acid product (that is dosed at 0.20 ppm for 14 to 21 days). However, that type of treatment is very unstable and requires daily testing and partial redosing. Since you aren't doing that, and the copper has remaining stable, and apparently has even risen (given the water change) I really am at a loss to say what it is doing, sorry.

Jay

Yeah no worries I appreciate the help, I will just continue doing water changes and monitoring the fish,
thanks

 

[Brad Coughlan]

That dose suggested it is a copper sulfate/citric acid product (that is dosed at 0.20 ppm for 14 to 21 days). However, that type of treatment is very unstable and requires daily testing and partial redosing. Since you aren't doing that, and the copper has remaining stable, and apparently has even risen (given the water change) I really am at a loss to say what it is doing, sorry.

Jay

Hey so I did some research and the product does indeed contain chelated copper

Since I only ran for a short time (as per the instructions) does this mean the treatment was not effective or does the formaldehyde compensate?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey so I did some research and the product does indeed contain chelated copper

Since I only ran for a short time (as per the instructions) does this mean the treatment was not effective or does the formaldehyde compensate?

Sorry - having not used that product, I can't really say. Formalin is also a an anti-protozoan, but I've never used it in conjunction with copper, only with malachite green.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Sorry - having not used that product, I can't really say. Formalin is also a an anti-protozoan, but I've never used it in conjunction with copper, only with malachite green.

Jay

Ok then

What would you suggest from this point

Just continue water changes to get to 0ppm and just observe for the rest of the fallow period?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Ok will do,

One other thing, not sure if I've asked you before on a previous thread but basically:

Copper treatment is complete and I followed dosing instructions + ran at that level for an extra week with the medication I used, ich is gone. But I have notice that the clownfish has had a few semi-distinct whiteish spots for at least over a week and they have not changed or disappeared then reappeared and have stayed in the same locations.

Here is one side of the fish with 3 of them:

Sorry for the bad camera quality, I actually used a magnifying glass and used my eyes and in most lighting conditions you can see that they are semi-distinct. There are also 2 on the other side of the fish, both not changed locations.

Any ideas what this could be? I am 99% sure it is not ich due to the nature of it. I have removed the copper via water changes and so far I've replaced about 80% of the water. Going to the LFS tomorrow so they can test copper.

- Thanks

Sorry - having not used that product, I can't really say. Formalin is also a an anti-protozoan, but I've never used it in conjunction with copper, only with malachite green.

Jay

Hi, I have been continuing daily observation, and I have a slight concern about the clownfish. It is similar to what is in the reply that I quoted, and I have noticed a new white spot / patch on it

It's only properly visible when I film or picture of it and harder to see with the naked eye, and also appears a tiny bit elevated from the skin from some angles

Hard to say how long this has been there, as there is still the spots that I mentioned in the quoted reply, I noticed that they have slowly changed throughout a few weeks but like you said is most likely scale damage, I just hope this is the same. I don't know if I am just looking for issues at this point but any patch of white I see always worries me, and the one today for sure caught my eye

really hope this is not ich again, just want to get my fish back in the DT. I literally only have 2 fish, and planning on adding 1 more after QT