27c fallow

[Brad Coughlan]

I see - no, if the DT has active ich in it, and you are trying to "manage" ich in another tank, moving those fish back to the DT too soon has some risk to it. Ich management relies in part on managing fish stress. Moving fish is stressful, therefore ich may crop right back up on them if you cut the fallow period shorter than perhaps 45 days.

Jay

Ok, I will just see what the spot does after 4 days and if it's still there I'll just continue the fallow as it wouldn't be ich

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I see - no, if the DT has active ich in it, and you are trying to "manage" ich in another tank, moving those fish back to the DT too soon has some risk to it. Ich management relies in part on managing fish stress. Moving fish is stressful, therefore ich may crop right back up on them if you cut the fallow period shorter than perhaps 45 days.

Jay

thanks

Good news, the spot has been there for 3 days so hopefully its still there tomorrow and the day after and I can finally say it is ich free and continue the fallow period

Once I buy a new clownfish, I know that the tank at my LFS that it would come from has a few fish with ich in, I am going to QT but it is worth using copper on them I assume right? I do know that they are currently running copper in that system but it's probably a good idea that I do it for myself so I know it goes through the full duration

 

[Jay Hemdal]

thanks

Good news, the spot has been there for 3 days so hopefully its still there tomorrow and the day after and I can finally say it is ich free and continue the fallow period

Once I buy a new clownfish, I know that the tank at my LFS that it would come from has a few fish with ich in, I am going to QT but it is worth using copper on them I assume right? I do know that they are currently running copper in that system but it's probably a good idea that I do it for myself so I know it goes through the full duration

I would not trust a copper treatment done by a LFS. they typically use a low dose to just suppress ich, and then, with fish coming and going all of the time, the treatment gets contaminated with new fish.

I can't remember - can you get copper power or coppersafe? If not, you'll have to use cupramine, but be careful to never combine that with reducing agents (formalin, ammonia removers) and to measure it very carefully to hold a 0.50 ppm dose for 21 to 30 days.

jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I would not trust a copper treatment done by a LFS. they typically use a low dose to just suppress ich, and then, with fish coming and going all of the time, the treatment gets contaminated with new fish.

I can't remember - can you get copper power or coppersafe? If not, you'll have to use cupramine, but be careful to never combine that with reducing agents (formalin, ammonia removers) and to measure it very carefully to hold a 0.50 ppm dose for 21 to 30 days.

jay

Can't get any of them, not even cupramine is available here anymore, have to use ntlabs which if I get to the point where I add new fish, ich would have been cured and the medication would have worked so I'd trust it again

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I would not trust a copper treatment done by a LFS. they typically use a low dose to just suppress ich, and then, with fish coming and going all of the time, the treatment gets contaminated with new fish.

I can't remember - can you get copper power or coppersafe? If not, you'll have to use cupramine, but be careful to never combine that with reducing agents (formalin, ammonia removers) and to measure it very carefully to hold a 0.50 ppm dose for 21 to 30 days.

jay

Spots have been there for 4 days which is a good sign. Pretty sure I can say it isn't ich. Just to be sure, how long does an ich parasite feed on a fish and is visible before it drops of, I saw you said 2-4 days but I have found other sources which say 3-9, just want to be sure

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Spots have been there for 4 days which is a good sign. Pretty sure I can say it isn't ich. Just to be sure, how long does an ich parasite feed on a fish and is visible before it drops of, I saw you said 2-4 days but I have found other sources which say 3-9, just want to be sure

Thanks

About 72 hours after they are visible they will drop off. A bit longer in cooler water, shorter in warmer water.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

About 72 hours after they are visible they will drop off. A bit longer in cooler water, shorter in warmer water.

Jay

Thanks Jay
Is there any reason why other sources suggest up to 9 days? I saw a life cycle diagram from bulk reef supply saying it, is this related to temperature?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay
Is there any reason why other sources suggest up to 9 days? I saw a life cycle diagram from bulk reef supply saying it, is this related to temperature?

Random sites on the Internet are often wrong, and once that information gets out there, it just gets repeated (grin). Colorni and Burgess say most trophonts exit the host at 4 to 5 days, with a maximum of 7. However, they start their timing at a stage where the trophont isn't really visible to the naked eye, so if you are just watching the fish, the time that you see can see any single spot is around 3 days. If you missed seeing the spot the first day (pretty common), then it will appear that the spot drops off after just 2 days. The variability due to temperature is only a real issue when tanks are warm (over 81 F) or below 75 F.

Here is a good review of Cryptocaryon:

FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Random sites on the Internet are often wrong, and once that information gets out there, it just gets repeated (grin). Colorni and Burgess say most trophonts exit the host at 4 to 5 days, with a maximum of 7. However, they start their timing at a stage where the trophont isn't really visible to the naked eye, so if you are just watching the fish, the time that you see can see any single spot is around 3 days. If you missed seeing the spot the first day (pretty common), then it will appear that the spot drops off after just 2 days. The variability due to temperature is only a real issue when tanks are warm (over 81 F) or below 75 F.

Here is a good review of Cryptocaryon:

FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

Jay

Thanks for the info

The spots that I sent a pocture of on this thread 4 days ago are are still there so am I right in saying that the ich is gone? I finished the copper treatment about a month ago and slowly removed via water changes, I have 36 days left on the fallow period

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the info

The spots that I sent a pocture of on this thread 4 days ago are are still there so am I right in saying that the ich is gone? I finished the copper treatment about a month ago and slowly removed via water changes, I have 36 days left on the fallow period

I would say so, but if they are still there at 7 days, then you are for certain it isn't ich. Also, if it were ich, new spots would be showing up elsewhere on the fish, I presume you are not seeing that.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I would say so, but if they are still there at 7 days, then you are for certain it isn't ich. Also, if it were ich, new spots would be showing up elsewhere on the fish, I presume you are not seeing that.

Jay

Not sure if they have sort of changed size or location slightly, I might just be imagining it as it's hard to measure exact location, but they've stayed roughly in the same location without major changes yes

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I would say so, but if they are still there at 7 days, then you are for certain it isn't ich. Also, if it were ich, new spots would be showing up elsewhere on the fish, I presume you are not seeing that.

Jay

I have noticed over the past few weeks a bit of "flashing" behavior from the clownfish. It first started happening when I used a light to make video and picture quality better when observing the fish, I had a light in its face. But today I saw it do it without the light, no indications of ich on the fish though

I do have a video of it doing it with the light on it

Is there any reason why it could be doing this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have noticed over the past few weeks a bit of "flashing" behavior from the clownfish. It first started happening when I used a light to make video and picture quality better when observing the fish, I had a light in its face. But today I saw it do it without the light, no indications of ich on the fish though

I do have a video of it doing it with the light on it

Is there any reason why it could be doing this?

That's not classic "flashing", more like what clownfish do when laying eggs. I think that is just a behavioral thing.

True flashing is when the fish swims up to something hard, usually a rock or the sand in a tank, then sort of hits it with a glancing blow, usually on the gills. You'll also see "coughing" and sometimes jetting forward in the water.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

That's not classic "flashing", more like what clownfish do when laying eggs. I think that is just a behavioral thing.

True flashing is when the fish swims up to something hard, usually a rock or the sand in a tank, then sort of hits it with a glancing blow, usually on the gills. You'll also see "coughing" and sometimes jetting forward in the water.

Jay

Ok good to hear, didn't film the movment it did yesterday but I assume it was the same as it did in thia video that was a few weeks ago

 

[Brad Coughlan]

That's not classic "flashing", more like what clownfish do when laying eggs. I think that is just a behavioral thing.

True flashing is when the fish swims up to something hard, usually a rock or the sand in a tank, then sort of hits it with a glancing blow, usually on the gills. You'll also see "coughing" and sometimes jetting forward in the water.

Jay

Hi this is not related to anything ich, but I saw the clownfish has quite white stringy poop, could this be flukes? Note: I have only been feeding it pellet food since it's been in the QT

thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi this is not related to anything ich, but I saw the clownfish has quite white stringy poop, could this be flukes? Note: I have only been feeding it pellet food since it's been in the QT

thanks

Flukes are external parasites of the gills and skin, and do not cause changes in a fish's feces. Here is a write-up I did on white feces, there are multiple causes:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Flukes are external parasites of the gills and skin, and do not cause changes in a fish's feces. Here is a write-up I did on white feces, there are multiple causes:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

Jay

Thanks
Quite hard to diognose the problem here, it has had poop like this for a couple months even in the DT. What would you suggest?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Hi, not sure if this thread is still open properly but I just have a quick question.
It's about the red firefish in the QT, his fins over the course of the 2 months he's been in there have receded slightly, most noticeably on it's long fin that they have. I am certain that it is agression from the clownfish, they only have 20 days left in there but these fins will grow back, right?

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, not sure if this thread is still open properly but I just have a quick question.
It's about the red firefish in the QT, his fins over the course of the 2 months he's been in there have receded slightly, most noticeably on it's long fin that they have. I am certain that it is agression from the clownfish, they only have 20 days left in there but these fins will grow back, right?

Thanks

Can you post a picture?
Fish fins usually grow back as long as they don’t get infected and if the aggression is stopped.
Jay

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Can you post a picture?
Fish fins usually grow back as long as they don’t get infected and if the aggression is stopped.
Jay

Just switched the lights off for the day but will post tomorrow.
They have been doing this for the whole time it's been in the QT, only have 20 days left in QT so I don't expect it to get much worse, but posted this as the long fin you see on firefish is about 75% shorter on mine.