45 Day Fallow periods

jmichaelh7

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Don't lose sight of the fact that I'm just presenting the 45 day time frame as an option, and that it MUST be done at higher than normal temperatures - 81F or even higher. If you have corals that won't tolerate that, go with a longer option.

Jay
Thank you. Do you know if water top off needs to have copper in it?
 
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Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

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Thank you. Do you know if water top off needs to have copper in it?
No - top off water due to evaporation should NOT have copper in it. Water taken from the tank during water changes and replaced with new seawater does have to have a proportional amount of copper added. You should be testing the copper level frequently in order to ensure it is kept at the proper level.

Jay
 

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It seems like after 9 pages we’re still somewhere between 45 and 72 days depending on temperature. For an invert coral QT I’m inclined to try the higher temp and see how things do with that. We’re only talking about prophylactic treatment just in case there’s ich anyway.

I have to say though if I knew I had ich in my DT, went through the effort to dig every little fish out, and kept them all alive in QT for 45 days…..I would probably just go the extra 27. If 45 is proposed as the minimum, a situation like that is not one in which I’d want to do the minimum.

It’s good to know there are options though.
 
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jmichaelh7

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It seems like after 9 pages we’re still somewhere between 45 and 72 days depending on temperature. For an invert coral QT I’m inclined to try the higher temp and see how things do with that. We’re only talking about prophylactic treatment just in case there’s ich anyway.

I have to say though if I knew I had ich in my DT, went through the effort to dig every little fish out, and kept them all alive in QT for 45 days…..I would probably just go the extra 27. If 45 is proposed as the minimum, a situation like that is not one in which I’d want to do the minimum.

It’s good to know there are options though.
Yeah? And all year around while your purchasing more corals restart 72 days? Whew
 

ariellemermaid

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Yeah? And all year around while your purchasing more corals restart 72 days? Whew
So first off I said I’ll try 45 days on my coral QT, but would go fallow on a DT longer. I have too many tiny fish that like to burrow and hide; getting them out would be a nightmare and I just wouldn’t want to risk the minimum time after all the effort.

Second, buying another coral or invert doesn’t reset the clock. You’re QTing for any cysts on the items put in. So each item has its own clock (which I keep in a spreadsheet). There could be free swimmers, but I’m comfortable giving it a dip then a good rinse with tank water before placing it in the DT.
 

jmichaelh7

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So first off I said I’ll try 45 days on my coral QT, but would go fallow on a DT longer. I have too many tiny fish that like to burrow and hide; getting them out would be a nightmare and I just wouldn’t want to risk the minimum time after all the effort.

Second, buying another coral or invert doesn’t reset the clock. You’re QTing for any cysts on the items put in. So each item has its own clock (which I keep in a spreadsheet). There could be free swimmers, but I’m comfortable giving it a dip then a good rinse with tank water before placing it in the DT.
I’m in quarantine now and the reason I asked is because is donned on me that I might have to quarantine every coral too for 72 days to ensure no tomants are attached. I wouldn’t want to do all this for nothing just to have white spots show up because of the nice milli frag
 
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ariellemermaid

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I’m in quarantine now and the reason I asked is because is donned on me that I might have to quarantine every coral too for 72 days to ensure no tomants are attached. I wouldn’t want to do all this for nothing just to have white spots show up because of the nice milli frag
Yep. That’s my philosophy too; if you’re going for eradication, go all the way. Jay gave an example of adding some snails and getting ich. In my case I added new snails to my QT after about 8 months of not adding anything new and suddenly had MEN start wiping out the monti’s in there. It took a few weeks to show up too. So coral QT isn’t just about ich and velvet either. One tip I’ve read is to get your snails from a Florida source like reef cleaners. FL waters are hot so they should be able to survive the higher temp (for a shorter QT). Not sure about everything else though, it seems the jury is out on the 81 degrees and inverts generally.

@Jay Hemdal One question about the 81 degrees is whether you feel like it needs to stay above that at all times like with copper and 2.0? In order words, would you feel the need to set your temp controller at 82 with a 1 degree trigger so it stays 81-82, or would 80-81 be sufficient. I’m not sure how much one degree matters to livestock, but wanted to ask as a practical matter.
 

jmichaelh7

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Yep. That’s my philosophy too; if you’re going for eradication, go all the way. Jay gave an example of adding some snails and getting ich. In my case I added new snails to my QT after about 8 months of not adding anything new and suddenly had MEN start wiping out the monti’s in there. It took a few weeks to show up too. So coral QT isn’t just about ich and velvet either. One tip I’ve read is to get your snails from a Florida source like reef cleaners. FL waters are hot so they should be able to survive the higher temp (for a shorter QT). Not sure about everything else though, it seems the jury is out on the 81 degrees and inverts generally.

@Jay Hemdal One question about the 81 degrees is whether you feel like it needs to stay above that at all times like with copper and 2.0? In order words, would you feel the need to set your temp controller at 82 with a 1 degree trigger so it stays 81-82, or would 80-81 be sufficient. I’m not sure how much one degree matters to livestock, but wanted to ask as a practical matter.
82 degrees… if it dropped to 80 then you would need to start over ?

I am curious to know if Torch’s and LPS would withstand. Also sps if they could handle 82 degrees. 6 weeks instead of 72 days sounds like a good trade off
 
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Acro, softies, lps including torches had no issue with 82 degrees. Nothing changed at all...

In fact when my AC broke and tank got to 93...almost everything survived except some acro's.

I don't get why people think 82 is too high? Anyone have any evidence? People use to run tanks hotter into the 80's for increased growth but people used to embrace live rock too.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Yep. That’s my philosophy too; if you’re going for eradication, go all the way. Jay gave an example of adding some snails and getting ich. In my case I added new snails to my QT after about 8 months of not adding anything new and suddenly had MEN start wiping out the monti’s in there. It took a few weeks to show up too. So coral QT isn’t just about ich and velvet either. One tip I’ve read is to get your snails from a Florida source like reef cleaners. FL waters are hot so they should be able to survive the higher temp (for a shorter QT). Not sure about everything else though, it seems the jury is out on the 81 degrees and inverts generally.

@Jay Hemdal One question about the 81 degrees is whether you feel like it needs to stay above that at all times like with copper and 2.0? In order words, would you feel the need to set your temp controller at 82 with a 1 degree trigger so it stays 81-82, or would 80-81 be sufficient. I’m not sure how much one degree matters to livestock, but wanted to ask as a practical matter.
I’m not 100% sure - my inclination has been that it is more of an average temperature thing as opposed to a hard limit…so if you spend two days at 80 and two days at 82, the average would be 81.
What got me started on all this was that back in the early 80s we would “burn” ich out of a tank by letting it go fallow for 35 days at 86 degrees - never heard of 76 days back then (grin).

Jay
 

ariellemermaid

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Acro, softies, lps including torches had no issue with 82 degrees. Nothing changed at all...

In fact when my AC broke and tank got to 93...almost everything survived except some acro's.

I don't get why people think 82 is too high? Anyone have any evidence? People use to run tanks hotter into the 80's for increased growth but people used to embrace live rock too.
I read on some forums people talking about snails dying at those temps. Now I don’t know if that was speculation or experience. It’s plausible though that pacific snails might not do so hot in FL water temps, pun not initially intended.

Generally speaking it seems corals would do better on the warmer side while fish would prefer the cooler side (oxygenation, etc.). It is my hypothesis people here focus too much on ocean conditions though. Sure, corals grow in the ocean, but they grow exceedingly slowly with poor coloration. Just because things grow and survive in the wild doesn’t mean that’s the gold standard, perfect condition. Only science and experiments can answer those questions, not just mimicking nature. And sure there’s global “warming” destroying reefs but it seems more related to pH and CO2 acidification which we can control in an aquarium, not necessarily the temperature itself.
 

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I read on some forums people talking about snails dying at those temps. Now I don’t know if that was speculation or experience. It’s plausible though that pacific snails might not do so hot in FL water temps, pun not initially intended.

Generally speaking it seems corals would do better on the warmer side while fish would prefer the cooler side (oxygenation, etc.). It is my hypothesis people here focus too much on ocean conditions though. Sure, corals grow in the ocean, but they grow exceedingly slowly with poor coloration. Just because things grow and survive in the wild doesn’t mean that’s the gold standard, perfect condition. Only science and experiments can answer those questions, not just mimicking nature. And sure there’s global “warming” destroying reefs but it seems more related to pH and CO2 acidification which we can control in an aquarium, not necessarily the temperature itself.

Probably margarita snails and mexican turbos. I have those in a cold water tank set at 55 degrees and they live many many years at that temp. Some of my snails in there are 7 years old.

The coloration in the ocean seems fine? They just are not under blue leds. We bring in wild corals all the time and stick them under blue leds and then name them and charge an insane amount.

Aren't many corals indo pacific and Caribbean? The temps are mid to high 80's there so why should 82 be so concerning?

I run my frag tank at 82 since I use it as coral QT and it does not give me any problems nor did my display when I went fallow at 82 degrees. My first tank 10 years ago was 84-86 in summer since I lived in a small hot apartment. I have never had an issue so wondering if people are just talking out their butt and not from experience?
 

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@Jay Hemdal If I gave all my fish away (1 had defenetly Velvet) and the others are being medicated by a friend in his QT tank. So, I dont want to bring these fishes back to my tank.

So without raising temperature, how long do I need to do a fallow period? I only have a cleaner shrimp and turbo snails in the tank with various SPS and LPS.

thanks!
 
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jmichaelh7

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@Jay Hemdal If I gave all my fish away (1 had defenetly Velvet) and the others are being medicated by a friend in his QT tank. So, I dont want to bring these fishes back to my tank.

So without raising temperature, how long do I need to do a fallow period? I only have a cleaner shrimp and turbo snails in the tank with various SPS and LPS.

thanks!
I’d say 76 days. I am currently doing the 45 day at temps above 81. I lost 80% of SPS. That was a hard pill to swallow. The other 20% are loving the elevated temps
 
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chipchipmofo

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I’d say 76 days. I am currently doing the 45 day at temps above 81. I lost 80% of SPS. That was a hard pill to swallow. The other 20% are loving the elevated temps
I dont want to raise temp. I want my SPS to survive tbh.

Still 76days, right?
 
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@Jay Hemdal If I gave all my fish away (1 had defenetly Velvet) and the others are being medicated by a friend in his QT tank. So, I dont want to bring these fishes back to my tank.

So without raising temperature, how long do I need to do a fallow period? I only have a cleaner shrimp and turbo snails in the tank with various SPS and LPS.

thanks!
The corals aren’t going to handle higher temps if they aren’t already acclimated to them. If you can’t take the temperature above 82, you are pretty much going to have to go the full 76 days to be safe. Bear in mind that figure came from Cryptocaryon/ich so Amyloodinium/velvet is a different organism. Common wisdom is the timing is similar, but no studies have been done as far as I know.
Jay
 
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The corals aren’t going to handle higher temps if they aren’t already acclimated to them. If you can’t take the temperature above 82, you are pretty much going to have to go the full 76 days to be safe. Bear in mind that figure came from Cryptocaryon/ich so Amyloodinium/velvet is a different organism. Common wisdom is the timing is similar, but no studies have been done as far as I know.
Jay
Would dosing Hydrogen Peroxide 3% also help in getting rid off the disease?
Currently there are NO fish in my tank - only 1 cleaner shrimp and snails.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Would dosing Hydrogen Peroxide 3% also help in getting rid off the disease?
Currently there are NO fish in my tank - only 1 cleaner shrimp and snails.
No - you cannot dose peroxide high enough to kill the resting tomont stages without harming your invertebrates. Peroxide will kill the theront stages, but those only live about 48 hours without a fish host.
Jay
 
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