A discussion on immunity

[Paul B]

Hey Humble, at least we got some action going on in this thread and it's not like one of those sleeper threads that go something like
"I have a red fish and a blue fish, what color fish should I add now"?

I haven't been able to add another clownfish to my tank for 26 years because of my fireclown. Him and his mate are in a love hate relationship as they look like they are killing each other, then mate. It's like a lot of marriages.

Here they are spawning, but usually they are fighting. The old guy has bags under his eyes. I noticed that in an 18 year old Percula clown I had also.

 

[Brew12]

Hey Humble, at least we got some action going on in this thread and it's not like one of those sleeper threads that go something like
"I have a red fish and a blue fish, what color fish should I add now"?

I want a fish that glows under my actinic lighting. Too bad the water around Three Mile Island is so cold.

 

[Humblefish]

Him and his mate are in a love hate relationship as they look like they are killing each other, then mate. It's like a lot of marriages.

You should offer clownfish marriage counseling.

I want a fish that glows under my actinic lighting. Too bad the water around Three Mile Island is so cold.

You would need to setup a FW tank, but have you seen "GloFish"? ;Wacky http://www.tetra-fish.com/glofish.aspx

 

[Brew12]

You would need to setup a FW tank, but have you seen "GloFish"? ;Wacky http://www.tetra-fish.com/glofish.aspx

But then I would need fresh water corals that glowed under my lighting. Silly man.

 

[Humblefish]

But then I would need fresh water corals that glowed under my lighting. Silly man.

This is FW compatible: https://www.amazon.com/Saim-Glowing-Artificial-Aquarium-Ornament/dp/B00UBT4IDK

 

[Brew12]

This is FW compatible: https://www.amazon.com/Saim-Glowing-Artificial-Aquarium-Ornament/dp/B00UBT4IDK

You win! ;Stop Please, just ;Stop!

 

[Paul B]

Also how do I make my corals immune to red bugs and aefw? Or is immunity only for fish and humans? Corals aren't cool enough.

I have no idea, but I do know that I have kept corals since they were imported. By the way, the reason corals were imported is that in the 80s (I think) Germany banned the importation of angelfish to that country and angelfish were the meat of the hobby and many other fish were not available so corals started to be imported to fill the gap.
Anyway (I know someone will argue with that) I personally have never dipped a coral in anything to eliminate anything. I have had flatworms and I did nothing, they just disappeared on their own. I also never had any nudibranchs or red bugs. But I also do not keep the most delicate corals as they frown on my 160 nitrates. The corals I do keep never seem to have any problems and that "may" be due to my natural tank. I probably have all sorts of "bug" predators in my tank from all the stuff I add from the sea. I am speculating here as I have no idea.
I collect mud for the bacteria along with amphipods, seaweeds, snails and amphipods here in my favorite tide pool. I may go there tomorrow. At high tide this water is 8' deep.



You can see why I am such a good diver. I have this propeller sticking out of my back.

 

[Paul B]

You win! ;Stop Please, just ;Stop!

I couldn't put that in my tank unless I removed the diver and treasure chest with the bubbles coming out.

 

[justingraham]

I have no idea, but I do know that I have kept corals since they were imported. By the way, the reason corals were imported is that in the 80s (I think) Germany banned the importation of angelfish to that country and angelfish were the meat of the hobby and many other fish were not available so corals started to be imported to fill the gap.
Anyway (I know someone will argue with that) I personally have never dipped a coral in anything to eliminate anything. I have had flatworms and I did nothing, they just disappeared on their own. I also never had any nudibranchs or red bugs. But I also do not keep the most delicate corals as they frown on my 160 nitrates. The corals I do keep never seem to have any problems and that "may" be due to my natural tank. I probably have all sorts of "bug" predators in my tank from all the stuff I add from the sea. I am speculating here as I have no idea.
I collect mud for the bacteria along with amphipods, seaweeds, snails and amphipods here in my favorite tide pool. I may go there tomorrow. At high tide this water is 8' deep.



You can see why I am such a good diver. I have this propeller sticking out of my back.

That's a good piece of info there Paul about the corals thank you.

 

[alanbetiger]

Paul
Complete serious, not trying to come off as a jerk or sarcastic or whatever. You have healthy fish, no denying that.
When was the last time you place a fish in your tank covered in Brooklynella or some other parasite that is very obvious to see on it? I would think many people would like to see your tank "in action". Again not sarcastic, it's hard to read that without hearing sarcasm I know especially since we have never met. A case study not a challenge. For real. Could you start a new thread (maybe you have already done this and if so nevermind) after picking up a known sick fish from a store (maybe someone on here can donate you one instead)? Take pictures of it before and then post daily updates for 3-4 weeks of your tank?
Seriously if your tank can cure everything, you could run a successful rescue business. Local stores around here have free fish every now and then because they have obvious disease. My Regal Tang had ich at the store so was free. But you rehab the sick fish for them to go out to their forever homes like any other animal rescue. Could save the lives of a lot fish.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Paul
Complete serious, not trying to come off as a jerk or sarcastic or whatever. You have healthy fish, no denying that.
When was the last time you place a fish in your tank covered in Brooklynella or some other parasite that is very obvious to see on it? I would think many people would like to see your tank "in action". Again not sarcastic, it's hard to read that without hearing sarcasm I know especially since we have never met. A case study not a challenge. For real. Could you start a new thread (maybe you have already done this and if so nevermind) after picking up a known sick fish from a store (maybe someone on here can donate you one instead)? Take pictures of it before and then post daily updates for 3-4 weeks of your tank?
Seriously if your tank can cure everything, you could run a successful rescue business. Local stores around here have free fish every now and then because they have obvious disease. My Regal Tang had ich at the store so was free. But you rehab the sick fish for them to go out to their forever homes like any other animal rescue. Could save the lives of a lot fish.

I would also add to take the ozonizer off-line.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I would also add to take the ozonizer off-line.

You think the ionizer is killing ick , flukes etc?

 

[eatbreakfast]

You think the ionizer is killing ick , flukes etc?

Yup, that's part of what it's designed to do.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Tup, that's part of what it's designed to do.

We should market them for qt then.
Most say it does nothing for parasites.

 

[eatbreakfast]

We should market them for qt then.
Most say it does nothing for parasites.

It's a lot like uv sterilization. Can't be relied on for complete eradication of parasites, but it does cut down a good number of them, so that compromised fish are inundated by an overwhelming density of pathogens.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It's a lot like uv sterilization. Can't be relied on for complete eradication of parasites, but it does cut down a good number of them, so that compromised fish are inundated by an overwhelming density of pathogens.

As the parasite goes through it life cycle after the initial blooms it should remove them all at some point then. Might take time but with no additions is should remove them I would think. Similar to the cycle of the other bugs in the case of ick. Pathogens are a bit different. Wouldn't those be removed more effectively if your correct?

So a qt for 72 days (for example) with a confirmed pathogenic illness should remove it no?

 

[Paul B]

That's a good piece of info there Paul about the corals thank you.

Paul
Complete serious, not trying to come off as a jerk or sarcastic or whatever. You have healthy fish, no denying that.
When was the last time you place a fish in your tank covered in Brooklynella or some other parasite that is very obvious to see on it? I would think many people would like to see your tank "in action". Again not sarcastic, it's hard to read that without hearing sarcasm I know especially since we have never met. A case study not a challenge. For real. Could you start a new thread (maybe you have already done this and if so nevermind) after picking up a known sick fish from a store (maybe someone on here can donate you one instead)? Take pictures of it before and then post daily updates for 3-4 weeks of your tank?
Seriously if your tank can cure everything, you could run a successful rescue business. Local stores around here have free fish every now and then because they have obvious disease. My Regal Tang had ich at the store so was free. But you rehab the sick fish for them to go out to their forever homes like any other animal rescue. Could save the lives of a lot fish.

Actually that was not very long ago and I did document it on this and 5 or 6 other forums. In fact (I just found it) Post #10 of this thread I wrote about 3 shrimpfish I added and one was covered in parasites. It died and I left it in there for the crabs. Nothing else got infected.
I also posted someplace on here where I bought a small copperband butterfly for five bucks because it was infected with parasites. I treated him for a few days and threw him in my tank. (I had to treat him because he was laying on his side and obviousely dying) The rest of the copperbands in the store already died so I tried to save this one. He recovered fine but I had to rescue him from my tank because my large, old copperband beat him to with in an inch of his life. I gave him away. That story is also on page 20 of my book.
I get fish all the time that are half dead because I get them very cheap or for free. I love to find parasite infected fish because parasites are extremely easy to eliminate and I can save a lot on the fish, even if I just give them away. I never sold anything out of my tank, I always give stuff away for free.
The only medication I have is this bottle of copper and formalin. It was made in Brooklyn and I probably got it in the 60s. I have no need for a hospital tank or quarantine tank but if I get a fish for practically nothing and I want to cure it, I set up a five gallon tank and use this medication in conjunction with a diatom filter and if I have it, quinicrine hydrochloride and the fish is clear of parasites in a day. I am not sure why so much ink is spent on curing parasites.
In the 70s when salt water stores were popping up all over the place I was called many times to go to stores and wholesalers to cure ich or other things. Remember, in those days no one had salt water fish so I was considered an old timer even though I just started myself. I learned about parasites and copper from a marine biologist who lived near me. Of course in the early days I used copper pennies for copper because I couldn't get liquid copper. (also in my book) I have been asked to speak on the history of the hobby 4 or 5 times at aquarium clubs and on the radio. I guess because I am old and was here at the beginning.



I bought three fish this week. A possum wrasse, a flasher wrasse and a tiny poisonous thing that looks like a clown gobi but spotted. The possum wrasse I bought right out of the shipping box at the LFS before they acclimated him to their tanks. Those three fish were dumped in my tank like I always do and they are fine.
A few years ago on RC we were having this discussion about immunity and I asked if anyone would like to come over to my house with a fish infected with anything they liked and I would put it in my tank. No one came forward but that is how sure I am nothing would happen. I realize that was stupid but it is what it is.
Here is a question, why wouldn't you want your fish immune from everything? Am I missing something or am I just wasting my time.

You could see those shrimpfish here

 

[Paul B]

Paul

Seriously if your tank can cure everything, you could run a successful rescue business. Local stores around here have free fish every now and then because they have obvious disease. My Regal Tang had ich at the store so was free. But you rehab the sick fish for them to go out to their forever homes like any other animal rescue. Could save the lives of a lot fish.

Alan, I didn't mean to imply that my tank can cure fish. Many of the parasite laden fish I get die. I can't save everything as there is a point where the fish is receiving last rites and nothing but divine intervention or mouth to mouth will save it. But the rest of my fish won't get whatever disease it has.

 

[1979fishgeek]

Paul B you are now my marine hero!

Amazing post, breath of fresh air! I been using natural seawater and feed live foods every week and totally agree in every thing you said. Great topic best thing I have read in years!

This is my reef running on live food and live seawater.

 

[alanbetiger]

Alan, I didn't mean to imply that my tank can cure fish. Many of the parasite laden fish I get die. I can't save everything as there is a point where the fish is receiving last rites and nothing but divine intervention or mouth to mouth will save it. But the rest of my fish won't get whatever disease it has.

I honestly thought you were saying this was the case. Thanks for the explanation.
Our definitions of Immune are different but similar. Definitely you have uber healthy fish.
I saw some of your posts (6000+ posts is hard to wade through!) that described situations where you introduced disease but couldn't see a step by step daily log with pictures of the fish or your other residents.