A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[Paston1]

70G Rubbermaid. Added a piece of live rock that’s 2 inch by 2 inch from current tank, 2 rock structures for new build and 4 krill immediately after mixing salt. Tossed 1 pill of vitamin c, d3, and b12. 2 vials of biodigest start and 2 of stop amino. This was Friday.

fast forward to Saturday I went to a buddies who happens to be a dealer. Grabbed a clown fish he wanted gone, tossed it in the Rubbermaid. (Top right of picture). This is less than 24 hours of the water running.

the picture was taken Monday 14th at 7:30 pm. The ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and nitrate is low. The fish is still alive.

This is the 2nd time I did a Rubbermaid with Prodibio. The first time was 3 rock structure, 6 vials, 2 krill. Had 3 days to work. The 4 day exchanged 100% of rock in a 240G tank.

 

[Sean_B]

70G Rubbermaid. Added a piece of live rock that’s 2 inch by 2 inch from current tank, 2 rock structures for new build and 4 krill immediately after mixing salt. Tossed 1 pill of vitamin c, d3, and b12. 2 vials of biodigest start and 2 of stop amino. This was Friday.

fast forward to Saturday I went to a buddies who happens to be a dealer. Grabbed a clown fish he wanted gone, tossed it in the Rubbermaid. (Top right of picture). This is less than 24 hours of the water running.

the picture was taken Monday 14th at 7:30 pm. The ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and nitrate is low. The fish is still alive.

This is the 2nd time I did a Rubbermaid with Prodibio. The first time was 3 rock structure, 6 vials, 2 krill. Had 3 days to work. The 4 day exchanged 100% of rock in a 240G tank.

no mention of a heater, is that why the Krill?
any pump for water movement? the first time you used this method, how long until rock had Coralline?

 

[Paston1]

no mention of a heater, is that why the Krill?
any pump for water movement? the first time you used this method, how long until rock had Coralline?

Apology here. Picture didn’t load.

2 sicce pumps, 1 heater.

picture one is the 70G Rubbermaid
1. Clown (top right)
2. 2 dry pieces of rock
3. 1 2 inch piece of live rock. (Far right)
4. 4 krill decaying somewhere in there.
5. vitamins that have dissolved.
6. Heater (by the clown) set to 80
7. 2 pumps on the bottom of Rubbermaid

picture 2 is my current tank (euphyllia collection) that the 2 inch rock came from.

This is my 2nd time using Prodibio start up. First time was 3 structures for the tank seen in picture 2. (240 display 60 sump) 100% rock pull and swap same day. The rock had 3 days to cycle with 4 pieces of krill, heater set to 80 and 2 pumps. Tank had 1 gem, 1 eel, 1 purple, 1 sailfin, 1 filefish, lots of inverts during the swap that were not pulled. Noted is sand was not swapped during this time.

Hard to see corraline due to rock color already.

 

[Sean_B]

240 looks very nice!
corraline on glass means rocks are probably covered....., nice!

 

[ApoIsland]

among reef cycles, there’s one type that has none. Moving live rock among tanks does not cause dieoffs, even if an eight dollar test kit says otherwise. Here we will log visually- proofed cycles, not factoring any test kits whatsoever.

living vs dead animals will be the final say, not a test kit.

Agreed. Here is my example for your proof:

old 120g tank with 40g sump transitioned to two new 90g tanks stacked on top of each other. Even left behind 25-35% of the old live rock in favor of a new dry rock dead rock scape in the top tank. Transferred all corals and all 13 fish over same day no issues.

For some reason I have the hardest time getting photos to load here lately so will keep tying later.

 

[ApoIsland]

Agreed. Here is my example for your proof:

old 120g tank with 40g sump transitioned to two new 90g tanks stacked on top of each other. Even left behind 25-35% of the old live rock in favor of a new dry rock dead rock scape in the top tank. Transferred all corals and all 13 fish over same day no issues.

For some reason I have the hardest time getting photos to load here lately so will keep tying later.

Ok....pics attached. Sorry they are low quality resolution. Can't get them to load any other way.

1 - Old 120g tank with 40g sump.
2 - New dry rock aquascape
3 - All corals and fish transferred at the end of a very long day.

Zero death, but some irritated corals for a week or two as I believe all the dead rock really threw off all the parameters.

Today marks about 6 weeks from the transfer and everything is back to normal now.

 

[Paston1]

Ok....pics attached. Sorry they are low quality resolution. Can't get them to load any other way.

1 - Old 120g tank with 40g sump.
2 - New dry rock aquascape
3 - All corals and fish transferred at the end of a very long day.

Zero death, but some irritated corals for a week or two as I believe all the dead rock really threw off all the parameters.

Today marks about 6 weeks from the transfer and everything is back to normal now.

Live rock transition. It can support the life. Nice work.

I really think it boils down to beginners and none beginners.

 

[MnFish1]

Live rock transition. It can support the life. Nice work.

I really think it boils down to beginners and none beginners.

Not necessarily - only 35% of the live rock was transferred.

 

[fulltang]

Has anyone heard of this place before? https://aquariumarts.com/frequently-asked-questions/

From what I'm reading, this is straight up exactly what I should order to achieve a skip cycle?

I'm going to reach out as I only need 5lbs which is below their minimum order amounts on the site.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/did-i-mess-up-new-tanks-cycle.919010/#post-10326359

A new one, visual benthic cue ID skip cycle (diatoms on sand coming from real live rocks used)

 

[brandon429]

will the next buyer at a reef tank convention walk up to 5 sellers with skip cycle displays and ask how they aligned all these tanks to begin the convention on the same Friday

Then reply back here and let us know what the pros are doing

 

[SunnyX]

Reading through the thread I am a bit perplexed. What is it that you’re trying to accomplish here? Is it not common knowledge that you can setup an aquarium day one so long as you are transferring live rock directly into the system? I’m not talking about the live rock that comes shipped in with die off, I’m talking about the kind you move from tank to tank in your home, say when you’re upgrading or downgrading a display.

It’s been accepted knowledge for some time now that you can move over the entire contents of a smaller tank into a larger one without issue. You’re in essence conducting a giant water change here.

A couple months back I did this very thing when I upgraded from a 50gl to a 160. All the corals, rocks and fish were moved into a new system that had new sand and where half the live rock was base. The corals browned out for a week but everything is growing like made and very colorful. It’s a process that I have repeated now six times

Somebody clue me in because I’m a bit lost here, lol.

-Sonny

 

[JCM]

Reading through the thread I am a bit perplexed. What is it that you’re trying to accomplish here? Is it not common knowledge that you can setup an aquarium day one so long as you are transferring live rock directly into the system? I’m not talking about the live rock that comes shipped in with die off, I’m talking about the kind you move from tank to tank in your home, say when you’re upgrading or downgrading a display.

It’s been accepted knowledge for some time now that you can move over the entire contents of a smaller tank into a larger one without issue. You’re in essence conducting a giant water change here.

A couple months back I did this very thing when I upgraded from a 50gl to a 160. All the corals, rocks and fish were moved into a new system that had new sand and where half the live rock was base. The corals browned out for a week but everything is growing like made and very colorful. It’s a process that I have repeated now six times

Somebody clue me in because I’m a bit lost here, lol.

-Sonny

I think he just really likes tank cycling. I agree it's been common knowledge for a long time, but he helps alot of inexperienced people who don't seem to have that knowledge.

Use real live rock, no waiting necessary.

 

[brandon429]

Any link here if read will show cycle umpires in most threads telling the OP they aren’t ready, when they are, its not common knowledge at all (but this is well known inside info to reef pros, convention invitees, pet store owners etc)


discerning an acceptable start date for any cycle (this thread is start date allowed on day one, for all examples) is among today’s most hot button topics in reefing.


another reason we have this thread: using cycling bacteria in the presence of live rock is a complete waste of cash for folks who fear an incomplete cycle. We paid more for this rock because it’s ready, not because it’s in need of more supplemented bacteria.


the sales machine is trying to tell us we need cycling bottle bac in all settings to have a safe cycle, we’re on page 7 using no reinforcements / one day will be page 30



what’s not common knowledge is that bringing pet store rocks home is an instant skip cycle for everyone, there are no mini cycles at all, and there’s no need for bottle bac in these setups. Heck some of my best friends on this site, chemistry pros, wouldn’t even agree with that statement/ skip cycling is far from widely accepted.


once digital ammonia kits in the hands of forum posters replace these nine dollar non digital color chart comparison kits, all truth in cycling will become evident :)

all allowed start dates will streamline, even for dry rock bottle bac cycles


once measurement is even-handed across evaluations and evaluators, cycle starts date disagreements will be a thing of the distant past. The concept of the mini cycle will be looked back on as completely laughable. No seneye owner has ever seen a mini cycle in a display…we already know it’s a false precept. The reason we need more digital test kits is so the seneye nonbelievers will have alternate sources to consult for patterning. Currently, their world revolves around api and mini cycles happening in the vast majority of sampled reef tanks from any age…see any help, my ammonia is at .5 post since the dawn of online reefing. Mini cycling is a 30 year sustained falsehood in our hobby, it’s why live rock skip cycling is select knowledge.


notice how every cycle chart ever written in print and online shows ammonia dropping on day ten and never coming up? If mini cycles were true that line wouldn’t stay dropped as it does on the charts, there’d be a rise after the initial drop.


non digital ammonia testing has absolutely fundamentally and principally mislead thousands and thousands of aquarists, all of us. Every reader here maintains at least some small bias towards ammonia noncontrol, you’ll feel it welling up inside anytime we click and read someone’s ammonia help / my cycle is stuck thread :)

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-to-saltwate-aquarium-in-cycle-for-1-week.955620/

this poster was about to buy bottle bac, at the behest of internet peers, for a tank already cycled obviously. we would 100% not let them buy bottle bac for that reef, it's done cycling. its time to read up on disease now, that's what we do after a cycle is complete and before tank stocking.


see this growth> anytime this is present, the substrates under the growth are cycled. filtration bac you can't see always set up shop before benthic matting you can see.

this is a firm rule in updated cycling science and you can't find it printed in any material because updated cycling science is for sellers only, buyers get the 1997 cycling rules so they stay tripped up and constantly clicking for more bacteria to be sent.



Sunnyx

Along with the other threads linked you can see we head off wasted bottle bac purchases here

Of course it's not clear to you given your advice to add bottle bac into cycled reefs, for different reasons unrelated to cycling i get that.

 

[Hadsdad]

I am setting up a new 30g tank and want to use live rock and dry rock. Is there a ratio of live to dry I should use to make sure I get a skip cycle? Or should I use all live to be safe? Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you for posting



What our thread and the case studies brings into skip cycling is that we will never encounter a tank using too little live rock to carry its bioload, you'd have to use something impractical like a single golf ball size live rock to be insufficient; nobody does that they tend to use all live rock or at least 50 50 and that's always enough


***Placement of your active biomedia, the live rock, matters**

ten pounds of live rock would run just about every starting bioload ever put into a new reef tank when it's in the display, so that emitted waste from fish gills and systemic respiration output directly swirls right next to the live rock and is pushed onto live rock by tank currents.

Imagine if the ten pounds of live rock was sequestered away in a sump, and a 1.5 inch pipe lead to that sump, and in the display was all white rock, dry, dry sand, and a heavier-than-normal loading of queen angelfish, that setup could crash. that setup would benefit from bottle bac added along with live rock because it will disperse into suspension evenly across the tank and suppress ammonia as it swirls around in the display awaiting being sent down the 1.5 inch opening.

if rocks are in the display, and they came from another reef tank or holding vat as cycled, they don't uncycle for us, ever. Their placement somewhere in the display alongside the bioload makes proximity safety we've uncovered here as highly reliable.

And we will never use ammonia testing here it will always be the living fish and corals we carry as proof, just like a reef tank convention. those sellers by and large don't even bring ammonia testers to the convention, ammonia testing is for buyers.


There isn't a single thread on the internet of too little cured aquarium live rock in a display causing ammonia non control for a given bioload, it's that powerful across all setup examples. We use this thread to specifically exclude bottle bac purchases from cycling, no other forum writeup does that: there are NO published articles on skip cycling, all articles advise bottle bac purchases, so we're opposite in practice here









if we don't make work threads showing clear times we don't have to buy things from a retail store, bottle bac, there's no way to stop fleecing of the buyers who are trained to add bottle bac for every move in reefing.

There is a certain type of cycle where we'd never use bottle bac, we'd never doubt bacteria, and this is it/cured aquarium live rock transfer skip cycles.

Thank you so much for posting, please update with pics + fish in the skip cycle tank when done

B

 

[brandon429]

even folks who sell uncured ocean rock include bottle bac with the purchase, which is ironic because uncured ocean rock has the largest collection of diverse bacteria you will ever encounter in reefing.

they include it because bacteria in suspension can help reduce ammonia leakage from the curing process, and that's pretty legit for it's use. given the studies recently that Prime doesn't bind ammonia (search Taricha's posts in the chem forum they're pretty irrefutable) bottle bac has at least been tested to control ammonia instantly, out of the gate, via bacteria in suspension.

this thread is about using cured aquarium rocks transferred among tanks, those never have dieoff requiring bottle bac or any other ammonia padding, they simply just transfer. they transfer so well that marine aquarium conventions can use the unspoken technique for 35 years running to control skip cycle setups, and skip cycling unsold materials back home to the vendor's location.

Sellers skip cycle all day long to the moon and back since Reagan was in office; buyers are effectively trained to stumble and doubt over the safety and reliability of this process through this very day; that's a sales gradient at work there's no other way to put it.

 

[brandon429]

Bacteria sales gimmick example, the Brightwell snippet below

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/

That link is the harshest, deepest sandbed cleaning thread on the internet using methods far meaner than anyone uses to clean out a reef tank. We didn’t use bottle bac

“to replace bacteria killed by extensive cleaning of substrates”

that sales pitch above has folks who merely python siphon their gravel thinking the bacteria are depleted.

Brightwell knows that reefers are in a constant state of doubt over their tank bacteria, they perceive it that way, and the trend is written directly into the directions for their cycling bac.


work threads use patterns from other peoples reef tanks to fact check sales claims like that above

 

[Hadsdad]

Thank you for posting



What our thread and the case studies brings into skip cycling is that we will never encounter a tank using too little live rock to carry its bioload, you'd have to use something impractical like a single golf ball size live rock to be insufficient; nobody does that they tend to use all live rock or at least 50 50 and that's always enough


***Placement of your active biomedia, the live rock, matters**

ten pounds of live rock would run just about every starting bioload ever put into a new reef tank when it's in the display, so that emitted waste from fish gills and systemic respiration output directly swirls right next to the live rock and is pushed onto live rock by tank currents.

Imagine if the ten pounds of live rock was sequestered away in a sump, and a 1.5 inch pipe lead to that sump, and in the display was all white rock, dry, dry sand, and a heavier-than-normal loading of queen angelfish, that setup could crash. that setup would benefit from bottle bac added along with live rock because it will disperse into suspension evenly across the tank and suppress ammonia as it swirls around in the display awaiting being sent down the 1.5 inch opening.

if rocks are in the display, and they came from another reef tank or holding vat as cycled, they don't uncycle for us, ever. Their placement somewhere in the display alongside the bioload makes proximity safety we've uncovered here as highly reliable.

And we will never use ammonia testing here it will always be the living fish and corals we carry as proof, just like a reef tank convention. those sellers by and large don't even bring ammonia testers to the convention, ammonia testing is for buyers.


There isn't a single thread on the internet of too little cured aquarium live rock in a display causing ammonia non control for a given bioload, it's that powerful across all setup examples. We use this thread to specifically exclude bottle bac purchases from cycling, no other forum writeup does that: there are NO published articles on skip cycling, all articles advise bottle bac purchases, so we're opposite in practice here









if we don't make work threads showing clear times we don't have to buy things from a retail store, bottle bac, there's no way to stop fleecing of the buyers who are trained to add bottle bac for every move in reefing.

There is a certain type of cycle where we'd never use bottle bac, we'd never doubt bacteria, and this is it/cured aquarium live rock transfer skip cycles.

Thank you so much for posting, please update with pics + fish in the skip cycle tank when done

B

Thank you.