About to Quit

[Apollo7235]

Not so great news today, but really trying to stay positive.

The new Poly-Filter has turned blue over the past 2ish days, indicating the presence of copper. That being said, I am not sure if this indicates a continuous source of copper in the system, or if maybe there is just still a little bit left to be pulled from the water.

I suppose we’ll see what the ICP says, hopefully on Tuesday. I’m trying to stay positive, but also preparing myself for the potential rip clean/rock and sand replacement.

The crappy thing is that since I my last water change on Sunday, the water is so clear that it literally doesn’t even look like there’s water in the tank. It’s pretty stunning, honestly, and I can only imagine what the tank would look like if it was stocked with that kind of water clarity.

Oh well. Back to the waiting game, I guess.

 

[Ashibashi]

Not so great news today, but really trying to stay positive.

The new Poly-Filter has turned blue over the past 2ish days, indicating the presence of copper. That being said, I am not sure if this indicates a continuous source of copper in the system, or if maybe there is just still a little bit left to be pulled from the water.

I suppose we’ll see what the ICP says, hopefully on Tuesday. I’m trying to stay positive, but also preparing myself for the potential rip clean/rock and sand replacement.

The crappy thing is that since I my last water change on Sunday, the water is so clear that it literally doesn’t even look like there’s water in the tank. It’s pretty stunning, honestly, and I can only imagine what the tank would look like if it was stocked with that kind of water clarity.

Oh well. Back to the waiting game, I guess.

Oh no what a pain! When did you change the poly-filter, and when did you do a water change? Do you suppose the change of filter color coincided with anything? Do you have your own RODI unit? Apologies if already asked and answered.

Is there any sand in the QT? You said the rocks in the QT tank are literally just rocks you took from the DT correct? That makes me think its not coming from the rock.

Idk how much those filters cost, but id be interested to know what amount of copper they need to absorb to turn blue, and how long it takes them to turn blue once in.

Have you checked your refugium, sand etc for pennies, or screws that might have fallen in from the back of a cabinet door? Sometimes magnetic fixings for equipment like poweheads etc can corrode, are they all good?

 

[Ashibashi]

This is totally my favorite thread on here by the way. I keep coming back lol!

 

[Weasel1960]

Haven’t used a poly filter but my guess would be it turns color and stays that way. Do you have another to put in while waiting for test results? Sounds like things are improving regardless. Still curious as to what could be sourcing the copper. Hoping your tests show all your metal issues have been taken care of.

 

[Critteraholic]

Are you willing to do a bucket test? Brace yourself!!!!!! I would divide the rocks into three groups. You can do this all at once in three separate buckets or one at a time. First you rinse the rocks with clean water. Then you would put the rocks into a bucket with twice their height of clean water. Toss a pump in there and leave it for 24 hours and then test the water for copper. You might get a small reading if the copper is settling in the rock, but you're looking for a definitive amount of copper saying the rock is the source or not. Wishing you good luck, and I hope things just keep getting better!

 

[Apollo7235]

Oh no what a pain! When did you change the poly-filter, and when did you do a water change? Do you suppose the change of filter color coincided with anything? Do you have your own RODI unit? Apologies if already asked and answered.

Is there any sand in the QT? You said the rocks in the QT tank are literally just rocks you took from the DT correct? That makes me think its not coming from the rock.

Idk how much those filters cost, but id be interested to know what amount of copper they need to absorb to turn blue, and how long it takes them to turn blue once in.

Have you checked your refugium, sand etc for pennies, or screws that might have fallen in from the back of a cabinet door? Sometimes magnetic fixings for equipment like poweheads etc can corrode, are they all good?

I did the water change on Sunday and changed the Poly-Filter after the water change. The filter turning blue indicates the presence of copper in the water. Yeah, I have a 4-stage RODI unit that does great; the only thing that gets through is a little bit of silicate.

There is sand in both my QT and my DT, although they are different types. The one rock in my QT is from my DT.
Ive checked all of my equipment and looked for anything in the tanks that shouldn’t be there and no dice, unfortunately.

 

[Apollo7235]

Haven’t used a poly filter but my guess would be it turns color and stays that way. Do you have another to put in while waiting for test results? Sounds like things are improving regardless. Still curious as to what could be sourcing the copper. Hoping your tests show all your metal issues have been taken care of.

Yeah, when I did the water change on Sunday I replaced the old Poly-Filter with a new one and the new one has since turned blue.

 

[Apollo7235]

Are you willing to do a bucket test? Brace yourself!!!!!! I would divide the rocks into three groups. You can do this all at once in three separate buckets or one at a time. First you rinse the rocks with clean water. Then you would put the rocks into a bucket with twice their height of clean water. Toss a pump in there and leave it for 24 hours and then test the water for copper. You might get a small reading if the copper is settling in the rock, but you're looking for a definitive amount of copper saying the rock is the source or not. Wishing you good luck, and I hope things just keep getting better!

Honestly, I wish I could do something let this, but I have a feeling the results would be inconclusive and I truly don’t have the time to do it

Great idea though, thank you for the input!!

 

[Apollo7235]

Sorry for the lack of updates and late responses; my 8.5-month-old is in the tail-end of RSV and in the middle of hand, foot and mouth, so things have been nuts to say the least.

More not-so-good news. The Poly Filter has darkened significantly. I am so deflated.

My hopes of the ICP results coming back clean are all but smooshed, but I suppose we’ll see what comes back hopefully Tuesday.

 

[Shirak]

wow that really did turn quite blue! Frustrating no doubt that whatever is leaching the metals is continuing to do so. But at least you have a solid suspect in all the issues you have had in the past. I fear that if it is one or more of the rocks it will continue to do so no matter how long you run the filter pads. At least it's not too difficult to reboot the system with new rock and sand to get the culprit out.

I know you checked for magnets, metal objects etc but do you have any brass hinges or screws in some cabinet or hood that could be rusting and dropping bits into the water?

 

[Weasel1960]

@Shirak good thought about something possibly rusting although tankmis 7ish months old. Like the thought of pulling all the rock into a bucket of rodi or old tank water and running poly filter on just the tank and sump. if it turns blue again that narrows it down to sand or something in the sump. If it doesn’t turn blue it was the rocks.

 

[Weasel1960]

Probably would be best to use salt water with a power heads so if not rocks they can continue to grow coralline.

 

[Shirak]

@Shirak good thought about something possibly rusting although tankmis 7ish months old. Like the thought of pulling all the rock into a bucket of rodi or old tank water and running poly filter on just the tank and sump. if it turns blue again that narrows it down to sand or something in the sump. If it doesn’t turn blue it was the rocks.

I agree it's unlikely a rusty screw in some hardware but 35 years ago I built my own hood and didn't realize brass screws and hinges would be a problem.

Not sure at this point the sand is salvageable even if it's from the rocks initially, the sand would absorb the copper from the water Might be running polyfilter and cuprisorb for the life of the tank unless starting all clean rock and sand.

 

[Weasel1960]

I agree it's unlikely a rusty screw in some hardware but 35 years ago I built my own hood and didn't realize brass screws and hinges would be a problem.

Not sure at this point the sand is salvageable even if it's from the rocks initially, the sand would absorb the copper from the water Might be running polyfilter and cuprisorb for the life of the tank unless starting all clean rock and sand.

Good point on the sand also much cheaper to replace she has worked really hard to get this far so I am hoping it’s not the rock. @Apollo7235 what type of rock did you originally start with?

 

[BostonReefer300]

@Shirak good thought about something possibly rusting although tankmis 7ish months old. Like the thought of pulling all the rock into a bucket of rodi or old tank water and running poly filter on just the tank and sump. if it turns blue again that narrows it down to sand or something in the sump. If it doesn’t turn blue it was the rocks.

I agree that this is a good idea. Two things: it might take a while for copper to leach out of the substrate to become noticeable enough for testing. Also, definitely use regular saltwater to help support the biofilter. Use a heater too speed things up. By the way @Apollo7235 , I forget----do you have a Hanna copper checker?

 

[Apollo7235]

wow that really did turn quite blue! Frustrating no doubt that whatever is leaching the metals is continuing to do so. But at least you have a solid suspect in all the issues you have had in the past. I fear that if it is one or more of the rocks it will continue to do so no matter how long you run the filter pads. At least it's not too difficult to reboot the system with new rock and sand to get the culprit out.

I know you checked for magnets, metal objects etc but do you have any brass hinges or screws in some cabinet or hood that could be rusting and dropping bits into the water?

So this morning I took a look in the cabinet and actually found something, but I don’t think it’s the culprit. There is one of the hinges that is rusted badly on the door directly in front of the skimmer, but I think the reason it rusted is because the skimmer overflowed for three weeks before it finally kicked in. That being said, it may account for the high manganese level, but definitely not the copper, unless I am missing something? The hinges are made of nickel, probably nickel plating over steel.

Other than the one hinge, I can’t find anything else. Aside from the lights, the only thing above the tank is the ceiling, and the only thing above the sump is plywood.

Unfortunately, I think a full tank reboot is in my future at this point. I am probably going to just go ahead and do it while still in Florida considering the gulf live rock supplier is only an hour or two away.

I will clean the rusted hinge and the others and see if I can coat them with some kind of rust resistant paint or something, but I am just having a really hard time believing that the one hinge is my problem.

 

[Apollo7235]

Good point on the sand also much cheaper to replace she has worked really hard to get this far so I am hoping it’s not the rock. @Apollo7235 what type of rock did you originally start with?

100% MarcoRocks dry reefsaver rock. Unfortunately at this point, I’m not sure it matters where the source is. Everything in the tank is contaminated and I don’t think it’s going to matter if I continue to run the pads/CupriSorb. If I don’t replace everything, this is going to be a never ending battle.

 

[Apollo7235]

I agree that this is a good idea. Two things: it might take a while for copper to leach out of the substrate to become noticeable enough for testing. Also, definitely use regular saltwater to help support the biofilter. Use a heater too speed things up. By the way @Apollo7235 , I forget----do you have a Hanna copper checker?

Yeah, I do, but I’m not sure if the checker would detect the levels of copper in the tank considering the pads and CupriSorb. I think the reason why the tank is doing better for short periods is because the media is absorbing the metals and cleaning the water for a couple of days, but as they become less and less effective, the original issue returns.

Very frustrating. Talk about a money pit.

 

[Shirak]

Looks like steel on the hinges and screws. It does look like there is some rusty dust on the top of the black brace though? Brass usually gets a blue/green rust because of the copper. If you wanted to do an experiment.. scrape a little of the rust from the hinge and screws into a little vial for the hanna copper checker and then add seawater and let it sit for 10min or so and test.. would be interesting if it showed copper.

I thought Marco rocks are supposed to be good? I have never used them but the name frequently comes up in threads and don't recall anyone else with similar issues.

 

[Apollo7235]

Looks like steel on the hinges and screws. It does look like there is some rusty dust on the top of the black brace though? Brass usually gets a blue/green rust because of the copper. If you wanted to do an experiment.. scrape a little of the rust from the hinge and screws into a little vial for the hanna copper checker and then add seawater and let it sit for 10min or so and test.. would be interesting if it showed copper.

I thought Marco rocks are supposed to be good? I have never used them but the name frequently comes up in threads and don't recall anyone else with similar issues.

I’ll have to give that a try. I am probably going to do some tank maintenance tomorrow morning, so I’ll try to do it then.

I thought the same which is why I bought them. It could also be the sand though, so I’m not ruling that out. The sand is CaribSea Special Grade Aragonite.