Acrylic Fabrication Q & A

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

about a year ago this is the information i got from my dealer.

unigel bought out arkema.

what was once arkema plex g is now unigel plastiglas.

what was once arkema pmacs is now unigel chemcast.

Whoa where did you get this? Last I knew, Trineo bought Arkema and they're the ones that shut down Mexico. Then Plaskolite bought the 2 plants in MX and fired them back up again toward the end of last year and that's when they started making cast (they previously did not have a line of cast products)

Who is unigel?

So now PMACS is made somewhere else other than the former MX plants that are now Plaskolite?

I can't keep up....

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

plastiglas was a subsidiary of unigel.

also, verzatec purchased plastiglas.

i’m now sure how this will effect the branding of specific products or the way they’re manufactured (quality).

Monterrey, N.L., Mexico – June 5th, 2024.

Verzatec Group, with over five decades of expertise, is pleased to announce the formalization of its acquisition of Plastiglas de Mexico S.A. de C.V., a subsidiary of Unigel Group.

This strategic acquisition marks a significant milestone in Verzatec’s trajectory, enhancing its position as a producer and distribution of fiberglass-reinforced plastic laminates, polycarbonate sheets, and interior and exterior panels.Plastiglas de Mexico’s market presence in cell casting acrylic sheets across Mexico, USA, and Canada complements Verzatec’s existing portfolio and strengthens its foothold in key regions.

“We are delighted to finalize the acquisition of Plastiglas de Mexico, a move that aligns seamlessly with our commitment to innovation, quality, and customer- centricity.
Together, we look forward to drive sustained growth as we continue to meet the evolving needs of our valued customers.” – said Alfredo Ibarra, CEO of Verzatec Group.

“Joining forces with Verzatec Group marks an exciting new chapter for Plastiglas de Mexico. Our shared dedication to innovation and customer satisfaction positions us for even greater success in the dynamic markets we serve. We are confident that together, we will unlock new opportunities and deliver value to our customers and stakeholders.” – said Baltazar Manfro, CEO of Plastiglas de Mexico.

As Verzatec embarks on this new chapter, it remains dedicated to upholding the highest standards of excellence while delivering value to its stakeholders.



About Plastiglas de Mexico S.A. de C.V.



A company subsidiary of the Unigel Group, is a market leader in cell casting acrylic sheets with significant operations in Mexico, USA, and Canada.

Renowned for its innovative solutions and commitment to quality, Plastiglas de Mexico has established itself as a trusted name in the industry, serving a diverse range of clients across various sectors.

 

[Troylee]

Okay I finally read through this entire beast of a thread! Thank you so much to all of the contributors to this; I'm still waffling over whether building an acrylic display tank is financially feasible for me (physically? Heck yes!) I have been taking extensive notes with direct links to specific posts in any case so that I don't need to wander this thread looking for answers again.

But I have some questions that I'm hoping to clarify:

First question: are the joint cuts supposed to look like this:

Or like this?:

Somehow your great photos haven't worked for convincing my silly brain how the joints are cut.

Second question!

What the heck does 'CNC' stand for in regards to routers?

Third question!

Is this a good source of acrylic in Canada?: https://plasticworld.ca/product/0000-clear-acrylic-cast/

I cannot for the life of me figure out what brand this acrylic is, mind.

Fourth question!

Since it's been some time do any of you have opinions on the brand Optix? I only ask because this brand is pretty common in stores here. Mind you, not in specialty plastic stores but in Home Depot and Rona (which I understand probably means that it is trash to be avoided.)

Fifth question!

Before I found this thread, I, like many other DIY hobbyists went searching for answers on the mystical and degenerate platform known as Youtube, infamous for its poor advice. There I found the channel LushAqua, where the channel owner used, instead of solvent... cyanoacrylite aka super glue to glue his acrylic aquarium together.

While I fully intend to use Weldon 3 or 4 instead (especially because my 1.5 years of reefing has rather definitively taught me to never trust cyanoacrylite,) I can't help being morbidly fascinated by this dude's use of it. Does cyanoacrylite actually weld acrylic? Does it bind acrylic better than it does other substances?! (Because as we have established I have developed a very poor opinion of cyanoacrylite's binding capabilities.)

In any case, thank you again so much for this literal treasure trove of knowledge, it's been really fun researching this topic!

B! It’s too hard to glue a clean joint if it’s beveled.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

B! It’s too hard to glue a clean joint if it’s beveled.

i’ve done it cleanly with wo40, but it’s pretty tricky.

 

[Troylee]

i’ve done it cleanly with wo40, but it’s pretty tricky.

Well yeah, someone with experience and know how can pull it off like myself but I would never tell a diy person to do that. I do those joints almost daily but they’re not pressure vessels either.

 

[Barncat]

B! It’s too hard to glue a clean joint if it’s beveled.

I'm so glad that this is the consensus because every time I thought of option A my brain gave me the Blue Screen of Death haha. I'm not that handy of a person so the whole notion was giving me a headache and I don't even know where I got the silly notion from!

 

[Barncat]

i have also used optix, marga cipta and some others for water containers up to 20 gallons with no issues. some of them have been in constant operation for 15 years.

at this point i’d say there has been no conclusive data to show which is best and by what degree. we only have our own experiences to bounce off of.

I'm hoping to build a 90 gallon in 1/5" thickness/24" tall, is that too big for that brand of acrylic?

(2' wide, 3' long.)

 

[Lowell Lemon]

.0220 is too thin.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Triple post hahaha.

I would use 1/2"

 

[Troylee]

I'm hoping to build a 90 gallon in 1/5" thickness/24" tall, is that too big for that brand of acrylic?

(2' wide, 3' long.)

You mean 1/2”? And what brand of acrylic?

 

[yak]

Hi All.

Has anyone used "OPTIX® G Series Cell Cast Acrylic" - from Plaskolite?

News release from 2023 (just looked it up)

"COLUMBUS, Ohio – July 14, 2023 – Plaskolite LLC (“Plaskolite”), a global leader in manufacturing engineering thermoplastics, today announced the start of production of OPTIX® G Series cell cast acrylic sheet at its recently acquired plant in Matamoros, Mexico. Plaskolite now is the only stocking manufacturer in the North American market producing extruded, continuous cast and cell cast acrylic sheet, further bolstering the industry’s most holistic thermoplastics portfolio.

To mark the occasion, Plaskolite held a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the Matamoros facility.

“We’re thrilled to start production just three months after the acquisition of the Matamoros facility,” said Ryan Schroeder, Plaskolite president and CEO. “This fast start is a testament to the hard work of many of our associates and a boon to our customers in North America, who now have the ability to source all three types of acrylic sheet along with the rest of the industry’s broadest portfolio of thermoplastic products from the same stocking manufacturer.”

Plaskolite acquired the land, buildings and equipment at the Matamoros site from Trineso in a transaction announced in April of this year. As production ramps up, Plaskolite anticipates the plant will employ 75 full-time associates by Q4, when the OPTIX G Series offering becomes fully available in textures, colors and custom thicknesses.

Cell cast acrylic sheet has the highest molecular weight, highest hardness, and best craze resistance of the three types of acrylic sheet and serves a wide range of applications, including display, signage, construction, and marine products. The Matamoros facility complements Plaskolite’s existing cell cast operations at its Girona, Spain facility."

Their PDFs on the site show an aquarium as part of the brochure/materials. I didn't see this brand listed in the thread. I emailed a place asking for Plex G and was told it's no longer a thing; the company that manufactured Plexiglas, Arkema, sold their manufacturing sites to Plaskolite with Optix cell-cast.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

Hi All.

Has anyone used "OPTIX® G Series Cell Cast Acrylic" - from Plaskolite?

News release from 2023 (just looked it up)


Their PDFs on the site show an aquarium as part of the brochure/materials. I didn't see this brand listed in the thread. I emailed a place asking for Plex G and was told it's no longer a thing; the company that manufactured Plexiglas, Arkema, sold their manufacturing sites to Plaskolite with Optix cell-cast.

scroll up

 

[yak]

I actually had to scroll back :face-with-tears-of-joy:. Yes, I do see it was mentioned in use that it seems ok. Was thinking of maybe trying it out for experiment on a sump in the future, as it is available locally (Optix G)

 

[yak]

Can someone point me to the right post in terms of bonding the end panels (left/right) to the front (or back) sheet when getting started.

I remember reading about leaving an 'overage' in order for the fillet to work and block air intrusion under the seams. This makes sense for the perimeter top/bottom but how does this work for the end (L/R) panels when attaching to the front (laying flat)?

If the left/right panel is too much (hanging over by 1mm for example) or too little even by a small amount, it would cause a gap that isn't flush and would wobble either at the bottom or top.

1) How do you get the side pieces perfectly lined up so nothing sticks out/under for solvent welding - just using a straight edge or a 90 deg framing clamp?

2) Also, having the ends (L/R) flush with the front or back panel when first welding, woudln't that allow air intrusion into the end of the piece since there is no overage?

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

I don't have time to look for any particular post but I can tell you this:

You want overage on the ends of the front and back panels, and all around the top and the bottom.

This should answer #2, you have overage on the front/back pieces (only on the ends, not on the top/bottom edges) to allow for a fillet. So let's say your tank is 48" long, your front/back pieces would be 48-1/8" so that you had a 1/16" overage on each end.

When you bond the ends to the front/back, you have the first piece (back) laying flat with the ends standing on it. Then you have a 90 degree bracket on the inside of the joint holding the vertical piece in place. Position the ends so that the outer faces are 1/16" from the ends.

As for the 90 degree bracket, I use ones I made out of acrylic but some use a triangle brace with the inside corner cut off, etc. The point is that you don't want anything in contact with the inside corner of the joint or it will wick the solvent out of the joint and possibly bond the bracket to the work piece.

As for lining up the top and bottom edges of the ends with the front/back, you do this after you pull the pins but before the solvent sets (you have about 15-30 seconds to manipulate the joint). I use my fingernails and "pick" at the intersection to feel how the parts are lining up, then tap gently to adjust. It takes some practice and there's a bit of art to it.

Once you have the front/back/ends bonded together and cured long enough, then you scrape those joints (top/bottom plane at the corners) with a long razor blade, or you can use a long sanding board (I do both). If you're doing a one-off, just find the largest box cutter blade you can (~6") and that will work. This is where it helps to get those pieces lined up as close as possible to flush on both ends of the joint because that minimizes the scraping time.

Then your top & bottom will have the same 1/16" overage on all four sides. You still have to make sure to keep it al aligned after pulling the pins, because your assembly will slide right off if you're not perfectly level and/or paying attention.

After all cured, flush trim everything.

 

[Garf]

I don't have time to look for any particular post but I can tell you this:

You want overage on the ends of the front and back panels, and all around the top and the bottom.

This should answer #2, you have overage on the front/back pieces (only on the ends, not on the top/bottom edges) to allow for a fillet. So let's say your tank is 48" long, your front/back pieces would be 48-1/8" so that you had a 1/16" overage on each end.

When you bond the ends to the front/back, you have the first piece (back) laying flat with the ends standing on it. Then you have a 90 degree bracket on the inside of the joint holding the vertical piece in place. Position the ends so that the outer faces are 1/16" from the ends.

As for the 90 degree bracket, I use ones I made out of acrylic but some use a triangle brace with the inside corner cut off, etc. The point is that you don't want anything in contact with the inside corner of the joint or it will wick the solvent out of the joint and possibly bond the bracket to the work piece.

As for lining up the top and bottom edges of the ends with the front/back, you do this after you pull the pins but before the solvent sets (you have about 15-30 seconds to manipulate the joint). I use my fingernails and "pick" at the intersection to feel how the parts are lining up, then tap gently to adjust. It takes some practice and there's a bit of art to it.

Once you have the front/back/ends bonded together and cured long enough, then you scrape those joints (top/bottom plane at the corners) with a long razor blade, or you can use a long sanding board (I do both). If you're doing a one-off, just find the largest box cutter blade you can (~6") and that will work. This is where it helps to get those pieces lined up as close as possible to flush on both ends of the joint because that minimizes the scraping time.

Then your top & bottom will have the same 1/16" overage on all four sides. You still have to make sure to keep it al aligned after pulling the pins, because your assembly will slide right off if you're not perfectly level and/or paying attention.

After all cured, flush trim everything.

Hope you are are doing well Bud. Still producing quality srubbers, I hear.

 

[yak]

I don't have time to look for any particular post but I can tell you this:

You want overage on the ends of the front and back panels, and all around the top and the bottom.

This should answer #2, you have overage on the front/back pieces (only on the ends, not on the top/bottom edges) to allow for a fillet. So let's say your tank is 48" long, your front/back pieces would be 48-1/8" so that you had a 1/16" overage on each end.

When you bond the ends to the front/back, you have the first piece (back) laying flat with the ends standing on it. Then you have a 90 degree bracket on the inside of the joint holding the vertical piece in place. Position the ends so that the outer faces are 1/16" from the ends.

As for the 90 degree bracket, I use ones I made out of acrylic but some use a triangle brace with the inside corner cut off, etc. The point is that you don't want anything in contact with the inside corner of the joint or it will wick the solvent out of the joint and possibly bond the bracket to the work piece.

As for lining up the top and bottom edges of the ends with the front/back, you do this after you pull the pins but before the solvent sets (you have about 15-30 seconds to manipulate the joint). I use my fingernails and "pick" at the intersection to feel how the parts are lining up, then tap gently to adjust. It takes some practice and there's a bit of art to it.

Once you have the front/back/ends bonded together and cured long enough, then you scrape those joints (top/bottom plane at the corners) with a long razor blade, or you can use a long sanding board (I do both). If you're doing a one-off, just find the largest box cutter blade you can (~6") and that will work. This is where it helps to get those pieces lined up as close as possible to flush on both ends of the joint because that minimizes the scraping time.

Then your top & bottom will have the same 1/16" overage on all four sides. You still have to make sure to keep it al aligned after pulling the pins, because your assembly will slide right off if you're not perfectly level and/or paying attention.

After all cured, flush trim everything.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I was thinking that air intrusion could occur on the ends of the pieces (where you fingernail flick), but this looks like it's mitigated due to the overage going along the length wise. I'll give it a try on smaller test pieces/squares first.

That leads me to my next two questions.

1) What do you all do during the winter months? I don't have access to a heated garage and I see that it's recommended to have temps over 60F (60-80?) for the process. I could only do it indoors which leads to.....

2) How safe is it to use Weldon 4 (Scigrip also has lower VOC version of 200g/L) or 95%/5% mix of Methylene chloride and glacial acetic acid indoors? (or Acrifix that doesn't have MC). The only places I could do it during the colder months are in the living room or in the basement. I see that the solvent evaporates rapidly but does it remain lingering around fumes wise or toxic wise? I'm not a chemist and don't know what would be acceptable from a "ppm" exposure relative to how many nasties are in the applicator bottle or the air on an average project. Family around etc...

Thanks!

 

[Troylee]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I was thinking that air intrusion could occur on the ends of the pieces (where you fingernail flick), but this looks like it's mitigated due to the overage going along the length wise. I'll give it a try on smaller test pieces/squares first.

That leads me to my next two questions.

1) What do you all do during the winter months? I don't have access to a heated garage and I see that it's recommended to have temps over 60F (60-80?) for the process. I could only do it indoors which leads to.....

2) How safe is it to use Weldon 4 (Scigrip also has lower VOC version of 200g/L) or 95%/5% mix of Methylene chloride and glacial acetic acid indoors? (or Acrifix that doesn't have MC). The only places I could do it during the colder months are in the living room or in the basement. I see that the solvent evaporates rapidly but does it remain lingering around fumes wise or toxic wise? I'm not a chemist and don't know what would be acceptable from a "ppm" exposure relative to how many nasties are in the applicator bottle or the air on an average project. Family around etc...

Thanks!

Sci grip isn’t bad at all… I glue up stuff on my kitchen counter all the time since it’s perfectly flat! One nice big piece of quartz :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I was thinking that air intrusion could occur on the ends of the pieces (where you fingernail flick), but this looks like it's mitigated due to the overage going along the length wise. I'll give it a try on smaller test pieces/squares first.

Oh, that's a good point because that does happen easily and frequently. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. Edge prep is important to prevent this - making sure the finished bonding edge is square and sharp.

Do all bonding on a compressible surface that extends past the workpiece. So, office-type carpet with a pad under it, or foam sheet like anti-fatigue mat

https://www.northerntool.com/produc...pattern-black-7-11-16ft-l-x-3-13-16ft-w-62117
this gives you something to "give" as you put in shims and then pins. Always have a shim in the corners no matter what. Then once you pull the pins after running the solvent, and you adjust the shims to snug make sure the ones in the corners are tight before you put weights on the workpiece, then snug them up slightly after that as well (but not too much, and then check all the other shims.

I use the mat + a razor thin shim under each pin, every 5-6" (or however the spacing works out) plus a shim on each corner (no matter if that's the end/front seam or the top or bottom, all corners always get a shim)

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

1) What do you all do during the winter months?

heat the garage, that's what I used to do. Ideally you need the material and solvent at 70F +/- 5

Summer is worse if you have an unconditioned space.

Doing a one-off isn't bad but for full production you need a fully conditioned space. Hard to find for cheap.

2) How safe is it to use Weldon 4 (Scigrip also has lower VOC version of 200g/L) or 95%/5% mix of Methylene chloride and glacial acetic acid indoors? (or Acrifix that doesn't have MC). The only places I could do it during the colder months are in the living room or in the basement. I see that the solvent evaporates rapidly but does it remain lingering around fumes wise or toxic wise? I'm not a chemist and don't know what would be acceptable from a "ppm" exposure relative to how many nasties are in the applicator bottle or the air on an average project. Family around etc...

Look up the VOC concentration levels allowed for Methylene Chloride, that's the one that matters. But basically yeah you don't want to breathe that stuff at any elevated concentration repeatedly.