Advice needed for large Quarantine

[Hodsonian]

Hi,

I currently have an 8foot 370gal mixed reef. I started with a 60gal cube 1.5yrs ago and have upgraded twice. I run a 60gal sump with filter floss, refugium and skimmer. Also an 80watt Pentair UV sterilizer.
Temp: 78F / Ph:8 / Salinity: .025
NH3:0 / NO2:~0 / NO3:~0
Alky:9.5 / Ca:533 / Mg:1503

Fish stock list:
Red Sea Sailfin 5"
Clown Tang 4"
Hippo Tang 2"
Achilles Tang 6"
Maculosous Angel 4"
Queen Angel 1.5"
Coral Beauty 1.5"
Melanarous Wrasse 3"
Red Corris Wrasse 1"
2x Cardinals 1"
Copperband butterfly 2.5"
Firefish Goby (red) 2"
Firefish Goby (purple) 3"
DaVinci Clown 1.5"
5x Yellow tail Damsels 1"
Mandarin Goby 2"
Snowflake eel 1.5'

I recently added the Achilles Tang (1 week ago). I did not think ich was in my system since none of the other fish have presented symptoms. Unfortunately the last two days I have noticed ich spots on the Achilles. About 6-10 spots in the morning. By the afternoon they are gone but I can see slightly raised bumps where they were. My understanding is that (unlike the rest of my fish which seem practically unphased) Achilles are much more susceptible and will not fight it off on their own. It is my goal to provide the best possible environment for these fish and so my plan is to quarantine all of the fish and go fallow in the DT.

I have a 5foot 250gal that I could use as a quarantine. I'm planning on using copper or cuppramine in the quarantine.

My Questions:
-Can I quarantine all these fish in the 250g at the same time?
-My plan for "filtration" on the QT is an FX6 with ammonia absorbing mats, good idea or no?
-Which should I use, Copper vs Cuppramine?
-What is the best test kit/device to monitor the copper/cuppramine levels to ensure they don't drop below therapeutic levels?
-Should I move the UV sterilizer to the QT? If not should I leave it running on the DT?

Thank you in advance,
Nick

 

[DrMMI]

I have a 260g and over the summer I had to quarantine all my fish for suspected velvet. I moved 6 tangs, clownfish, two dwarf angels, royal gramma, several gobies, multiple wrasses, and pajama cardinals into a 150g rubbermaid container. I used a canister filter for filtration. I always keep some sponge filters in my sump to have ready to go filtration but I also sacrificed two pieces of live rock just to be on the safe side. I used copper safe, ramped up to therapeutic with 2 days. I've read that uv can denature the copper and make it toxic, but I think that's more of a concern with cupermine than with chelated copper.

 

[Hodsonian]

I have a 260g and over the summer I had to quarantine all my fish for suspected velvet. I moved 6 tangs, clownfish, two dwarf angels, royal gramma, several gobies, multiple wrasses, and pajama cardinals into a 150g rubbermaid container. I used a canister filter for filtration. I always keep some sponge filters in my sump to have ready to go filtration but I also sacrificed two pieces of live rock just to be on the safe side. I used copper safe, ramped up to therapeutic with 2 days. I've read that uv can denature the copper and make it toxic, but I think that's more of a concern with cupermine than with chelated copper.

Great to hear you had a successful experience quarantining a similar mix of fish! Thank you for the tip on the UV. Did you provide PVC fittings as hides?
I get the idea of seeded sponge filters but doesn't the copper/cuppramine kill the BB off anyway?
If you don't mind me asking, how did you monitor the ammonia?

As a side note, looking at the Achilles this evening, you could hardly tell she has an issue. I wonder if, during they day,, she is scraping them off on the sandbed, cleaner shrimp are getting them, or just the life cycle (I know they drop off at some point).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Achilles always come with ich. Even mine did and a friends' did also.
My success treatment was Polyp Lab Medic. Reef safe and worked quick. Treat though for 10 days

 

[DaddyFish]

I've successfully run UV with CopperSafe twice now, 30-days each time. You may get a deposit/film on the quartz sleeve from the copper, but I've had no, zero side effects on the med itself or fish. Going forward I'm running UV with CopperSafe every time.

The Hanna Copper Test is spot-on with CopperSafe. Dose it to 2.0, don't bother ramping up. Trust the Hanna tester.

 

[Hodsonian]

Achilles always come with ich. Even mine did and a friends' did also.
My success treatment was Polyp Lab Medic. Reef safe and worked quick. Treat though for 10 days

Thank you, that's great to hear you had success with medic. I used it (at double dose) when I had velvet in my 60 without success. If I'm not mistaken it's an oxidator like h202? Makes me wonder if this might be helpful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/oxydators-and-their-fight-against-parasites.809054/

Achilles always come with ich. Even mine did and a friends' did also.
My success treatment was Polyp Lab Medic. Reef safe and worked quick. Treat though for 10 days

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you, that's great to hear you had success with medic. I used it (at double dose) when I had velvet in my 60 without success. If I'm not mistaken it's an oxidator like h202? Makes me wonder if this might be helpful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/oxydators-and-their-fight-against-parasites.809054/

My achilles and gem tang tang responded and recovered well. Yours is a beauty

 

[DrMMI]

Great to hear you had a successful experience quarantining a similar mix of fish! Thank you for the tip on the UV. Did you provide PVC fittings as hides?
I get the idea of seeded sponge filters but doesn't the copper/cuppramine kill the BB off anyway?
If you don't mind me asking, how did you monitor the ammonia?

As a side note, looking at the Achilles this evening, you could hardly tell she has an issue. I wonder if, during they day,, she is scraping them off on the sandbed, cleaner shrimp are getting them, or just the life cycle (I know they drop off at some point).

Yep, I went to home Depot and bought a ton of PVC parts. I used a seachem ammonia badge to monitor the ammonia. In the beginning I had to do water changes every two days to keep the ammonia down. After about two weeks, the filter was established and I didn't have any water changes anymore with regards to the ammonia. I use the henna checker for the copper and it was super easy to use and I felt it was very accurate.

 

[Hodsonian]

UPDATE: This AM she still has a few marks and scrapes bit no new ich-like spots...I'm beginning to wonder if she might fight this off on her own. Im still going to move forward with the QT setup though just in case... Thoughts/experiences with an Achilles beating ich? Also she ate like a pig this morning.

 

[dyno]

Buy this for the best Copper Test Kit. Also, my favorite copper is Copper Power.

High Range Copper Colorimeter – Checker® HC HI702

Our high range copper colorimeter helps you get more accurate results than your standard chemical test kit.

www.hannainst.com

 

[Shanet]

Have you considered TTM, I use it to quarantine all my fish. Powder Blues, Browns, Hippo's. I've had 100 % success using this method. I do @Humblefishes Velvet & Ick method. The advantage is that you don't have to worry about ammonia build up because the initial transfers are 36 hours apart and the longest 72 hours, which I use an Ammolock dose for. No Chemicals but lots of water, worth considering.

 

[Hodsonian]

Have you considered TTM, I use it to quarantine all my fish. Powder Blues, Browns, Hippo's. I've had 100 % success using this method. I do @Humblefishes Velvet & Ick method. The advantage is that you don't have to worry about ammonia build up because the initial transfers are 36 hours apart and the longest 72 hours, which I use an Ammolock dose for. No Chemicals but lots of water, worth considering.

Thank you for the reply. I have used TTM as well with great success. Unfortunately the logistics of having two qt tanks large enough or enough smaller tanks are too great. Also I will be waiting on the fallow period anyway, but I really like that TTM doesn't involve the use of chemicals.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

I would leave the uv running on the main tank. It'll help kill off the free swimming parasites. You don't need uv when using copper anyway and can do more harm then good. I would think everything should be fine in the 250, just make sure you have lots of water movement.

 

[Hodsonian]

UPDATE 3/13/21
Quarantine tanks are set up. I've decided to use copper power, general cure and prazipro. Moving fish later today. I have a couple questions:

Snowflake eel. I've read that they are sensitive to copper/cuppramine. Is this true with copper power? If so my thought is to quarantine him separately using TTM in 2 x 20gal tanks.

Dip. Since I will already have the fish in buckets should I take the opportunity to dip them before adding to QT? If so just RODI or something else ideally? I was thinking possibly H2O2?

Wrasse. I have a 3" Melanarous and a 1" Red corris. Will they be fine in the copper power? Should I put them in the 20 using TTM? If in the copper power is ok to put a small dish of aragonite sand?

Bacteria. Should I dose bacteria before copper power or after?

My wife was working out next to the tank this AM and said oh look at the cute baby fish. 2 perfectly formed baby bengali cardinals. I've got them now in a hob but my question is what do I do with them?! Can they can go thru TTM?

Thank you!

 

[VJM 21]

I can’t speak to the situation with the baby cardinals, except to say that it’s really cool.

Your wrasses will be fine with copper power, but you should probably add a container of sand to your quarantine tank for them. I’m assuming that you’ll need to keep them in there for at least 45 days. That’s probably too long for sand burrowing wrasse in a bare bottom tank.

 

[DaddyFish]

UPDATE 3/13/21
Quarantine tanks are set up. I've decided to use copper power, general cure and prazipro. Moving fish later today. I have a couple questions:

Snowflake eel. I've read that they are sensitive to copper/cuppramine. Is this true with copper power? If so my thought is to quarantine him separately using TTM in 2 x 20gal tanks.

I've put two snowflake eels through CopperSafe with no ill effects, but can't speak to CopperPower.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Buy this for the best Copper Test Kit. Also, my favorite copper is Copper Power.

High Range Copper Colorimeter – Checker® HC HI702

Our high range copper colorimeter helps you get more accurate results than your standard chemical test kit.

www.hannainst.com

Yes, but remember to get a refill of the copper reagent at the same time. The six packets that come with the tester just aren't enough for a full quarantine cycle -- especially if you have to do water changes.

 

[Tamberav]

UPDATE 3/13/21
Quarantine tanks are set up. I've decided to use copper power, general cure and prazipro. Moving fish later today. I have a couple questions:

Snowflake eel. I've read that they are sensitive to copper/cuppramine. Is this true with copper power? If so my thought is to quarantine him separately using TTM in 2 x 20gal tanks.

Dip. Since I will already have the fish in buckets should I take the opportunity to dip them before adding to QT? If so just RODI or something else ideally? I was thinking possibly H2O2?

Wrasse. I have a 3" Melanarous and a 1" Red corris. Will they be fine in the copper power? Should I put them in the 20 using TTM? If in the copper power is ok to put a small dish of aragonite sand?

Bacteria. Should I dose bacteria before copper power or after?

My wife was working out next to the tank this AM and said oh look at the cute baby fish. 2 perfectly formed baby bengali cardinals. I've got them now in a hob but my question is what do I do with them?! Can they can go thru TTM?

Thank you!

Copper should not be used on mandarin fish FYI

 

[Marco S]

It looks like you have gotten some solid advice and are well on your way with the QT. The only thing I will add is about the bacteria dosing. The largest QT tank I have done so far is a 55 gallons so getting the cycle finished with a much larger tank will be challenging. I always dose well over the recommended dose initially and continue to dose bacteria every day and with every water change. I know that is wasting a lot of bacteria, but my concern of having no measurable Ammonia and as little Nitrite for as little a period as possible far outweighs the cost of bacteria. I have successfully done this with smaller tanks many times over the last few years and always manage to end up with no measurable Ammonia, but the Nitrite usually gets fairly high and usually sticks around for a little bit, but so far I have not had any deaths, (or any real issues at all) because of it.

One main advantage you have is that all your fish are already used to eating whatever you feed them and they are used to each other and being in captivity. That in itself is a huge advantage to QTing brand new fish and trying to get them eating and used to captivity at the same time as medicating them. I wish you the best and hope you have a successful QT for all your fish.

On a side note, that Achilles is absolutely beautiful! I have one that is smaller, but yours is a lot rounder and the teardrop is HUGE! Hopefully mine starts looking more like yours as it gets larger.

Edit: Another side note...my Achilles came in with ICH as well. My Powder Blue and Purple came in with Velvet and my Hippo and Whitetail Bristletooth came in with Ich and flukes. I have yet to have a Tang with no diseases yet. Good thing I QT everything wet that goes into my DT.

 

[Hodsonian]

Update 3/16/2021

Everyone is doing well in the 250QT (I decided to remove to Damsels from the equation and QT the Snowflake separately, using TTM). Copper is up to 2.37 according to the Hanna high range that everyone suggested (thank you, I also ordered the extra reagents as suggested, necessary & appreciated). I know I shot a little high but still below the 2.5 recommended dose as per the manufacturer's directions. Water is somewhat cloudy, I've done 2 x 60gal water changes so far (vacuuming any uneaten food I can find). I ended up using a combination of Seachem seed, Dr. Tim's and Biospira added directly to the two xl sponge filters. Also started feeding GC orally 2x daily using Focus & frozen. For the nori I dissolved GC along with selcon and saturated, then dried the nori on a rack I n the fridge. Fish seem to be getting used to it, despite the bitterness. I also added a 3x6 Pyrex dish with aragonite sand for the wrasse, which they have been using.

Question: I have noticed some scratching still. In doing some research on here I saw that a dip of one kind or another would be appropriate. I really would rather not net the fish again unless necessary. Should I wait out the 14 days of GC and then use Prazi or could I start the prazi now?