Alage? ID

[reeferfoxx]

Darn! This is interesting as I never experienced dinos post chrysos. You think this could be attributed to the chemi-clean? That is something i've never tried. I've been hearing a lot of good stuff from using UV sterilizers. Might consider that one too. The Jebao UV's are affordable. That said, people made statements that it helped with cyano as well.

Aside from that suggestion, taking the simple route of leaving the tank alone for awhile will help too. Between the removal of chrysos then cyano and now this are all signs of the tank going through its maturing process. There is a good chance that with limited to no water changes can help the bio-diversity and micro fauna to begin growing. I suspect the chemi-clean was a harsh agent on a fragile environment.

 

[rtparty]

Darn! This is interesting as I never experienced dinos post chrysos. You think this could be attributed to the chemi-clean? That is something i've never tried. I've been hearing a lot of good stuff from using UV sterilizers. Might consider that one too. The Jebao UV's are affordable. That said, people made statements that it helped with cyano as well.

Aside from that suggestion, taking the simple route of leaving the tank alone for awhile will help too. Between the removal of chrysos then cyano and now this are all signs of the tank going through its maturing process. There is a good chance that with limited to no water changes can help the bio-diversity and micro fauna to begin growing. I suspect the chemi-clean was a harsh agent on a fragile environment.

I've never had dinos so it's all new to me. Took almost 12 years in the hobby to be hit like this.

On a positive note, my corals look really good so something right is happening.

I plan no water changes for a while because like you said, tank needs some time to mature and settle down after a lot of changes and chemicals. I had no choice IMO with Chemiclean though. The cyano was covering corals and it was a matter of time before it started killing them (indirectly).

 

[reeferfoxx]

I've never had dinos so it's all new to me. Took almost 12 years in the hobby to be hit like this.

On a positive note, my corals look really good so something right is happening.

I plan no water changes for a while because like you said, tank needs some time to mature and settle down after a lot of changes and chemicals. I had no choice IMO with Chemiclean though. The cyano was covering corals and it was a matter of time before it started killing them (indirectly).

I hear you there. These dry rock tanks can be a real pita.

 

[rtparty]

I hear you there. These dry rock tanks can be a real pita.

What's odd is almost every tank after my first tank has used dry rock. Even my very first tank wasn't true LR. It was just cured at the store.

My thinking is I've been too aggressive in my nutrient control methods. I've never used Matrix before and I'm thinking it's super effective at reducing nitrates and I just don't need that kind of reduction right now. I hesitate to take it out and let it dry out though. It would basically become caked in nutrients unless I freshwater rinse and wash it like crazy. Then I'm starting back over if I ever introduce it back into my tank. It is pretty cheap so I could just throw it away I guess.

 

[rtparty]

Double post

 

[rtparty]

I should add that my biggest problem with dry rock tanks has been hair algae. Hence why I went over board with this one and controlling nutrients. I've just gone too far.

I'd gladly take hair algae right now! Just grab a tuxedo urchin and let it go to town. So much easier than dinos

 

[reeferfoxx]

What's odd is almost every tank after my first tank has used dry rock. Even my very first tank wasn't true LR. It was just cured at the store.

My thinking is I've been too aggressive in my nutrient control methods. I've never used Matrix before and I'm thinking it's super effective at reducing nitrates and I just don't need that kind of reduction right now. I hesitate to take it out and let it dry out though. It would basically become caked in nutrients unless I freshwater rinse and wash it like crazy. Then I'm starting back over if I ever introduce it back into my tank. It is pretty cheap so I could just throw it away I guess.

I'm running matrix too and this has crossed my mind many many times. Though, people keep talking me out of removing it. However, you know, I have mine placed in the overflow that has water running through it. Now, to get the nitrate reduction water has to flow over it. So you could just place it into a refugium or an area that has little flow so it can act more nitrifying rather denitrifying?

 

[rtparty]

I'm running matrix too and this has crossed my mind many many times. Though, people keep talking me out of removing it. However, you know, I have mine placed in the overflow that has water running through it. Now, to get the nitrate reduction water has to flow over it. So you could just place it into a refugium or an area that has little flow so it can act more nitrifying rather denitrifying?

I have mine setup two ways. One is a bag just sitting in the return section. The other is a reactor with about 80gph running through it.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I have mine setup two ways. One is a bag just sitting in the return section. The other is a reactor with about 80gph running through it.

I would say the ones in the return section are fine but the reactor might need to be removed. Then you could displace the matrix else where.

 

[rtparty]

I would say the ones in the return section are fine but the reactor might need to be removed. Then you could displace the matrix else where.

I'm wondering if it's even needed at all? I guess for tanks that are overstocked and extremely over fed it would be a great tool to implement.

But for us, is it too much on young, not over stocked tanks? Again, I've never used Matrix in any other tank of mine and I have never had these issues. (Not all together, one after the other.) I'm not saying it's the cause because it could be straight coincidence but maybe I can't ignore it either.

I do know I can dose about 8ml a day of potassium nitrate and keep my nitrates around 4ppm.

Another note if it helps anyone reading, my pineapple sponges have taken off in my sump and even on my rock in the tank. So they're definitely being fed something.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'm wondering if it's even needed at all? I guess for tanks that are overstocked and extremely over fed it would be a great tool to implement.

But for us, is it too much on young, not over stocked tanks? Again, I've never used Matrix in any other tank of mine and I have never had these issues. (Not all together, one after the other.) I'm not saying it's the cause because it could be straight coincidence but maybe I can't ignore it either.

I do know I can dose about 8ml a day of potassium nitrate and keep my nitrates around 4ppm.

Another note if it helps anyone reading, my pineapple sponges have taken off in my sump and even on my rock in the tank. So they're definitely being fed something.

I'm with you on that! My old tank never had matrix and never ran into issues related to nutrients. I jumped the matrix train and it's been a struggle ever since.

I do know I can dose about 8ml a day of potassium nitrate and keep my nitrates around 4ppm.

We shouldn't have to do this lol ;Wacky

Another note if it helps anyone reading, my pineapple sponges have taken off in my sump and even on my rock in the tank. So they're definitely being fed something.

Pineapple sponges are a sign of increased po4 and nutrients. They also feed on diatoms. Your dino issue could be a diatom issue. What's funny is I was just in the dino threads asking for the cheapest and adequate microscope for ID. People are using a $10 scope off amazon. I just ordered one. $10 that could keep the hair on your head sounds like a no brainer before dumping $$$$ on other equipment.
https://www.amazon.com/AMSCOPE-KIDS...top?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp

 

[mcarroll]

In a nutshell, I'd keep feeding the same, skimming the same, but cut out all extra nutrient reduction like biomedia, GFO, etc. I would get prepared to dose NO3 and PO4 until these guys give up blooming.

And +1 on the microscope! Selecting a microscope

I'm gonna have to review the tank history to see if there's anything else more specific to suggest.

 

[mcarroll]

That looked like dino's over chrysophytes back on page 1.....wish we had microscope photos from back then! I had a buddy that had dino's over turf algae like that. Weird.

Lack of CUC (zero) and unstable conditions were my leading indicators when my system got a chrysophyte outbreak.

In my case the scenario was ignoring the tank, which due to all the two-part dosing without water changes allowed salinity to creep up to 1.030. Other things were a little out of whack too, but not bad like the salinity.

(Salinity is supposedly the #1 determinant for the makeup of microbial communities....apparently 1.030 is on the border of what nitrifying bacteria can tolerate, for example. ;Nailbiting)

Scrubbed, did water changes, fixed salinity, fixed nutrients, GFO'd on a 24-hr basis for silicates, guarding against losing all my PO4 – don't let PO4 dip under 0.10 ppm if there's a dino bloom happening– and added CUC which died.



Scrubbed, GFO'd (as above!!!), ran activated carbon to soak up toxins AND started dosing nitrates. Then I added another CUC that lived. I think I may have waited to see cyano starting to bloom.

 

[reeferfoxx]

That looked like dino's over chrysophytes back on page 1

That was my first assumption as well. However, knowing what we know now, the steps to cure one or the other at this point, are obsolete and may not have mattered. We killed one issue, presented another, killed that one, and now the last one(maybe). All in all, I think the tank is on the right path to recovery with proper ID and limited husbandry.

 

[rtparty]

I'm with you on that! My old tank never had matrix and never ran into issues related to nutrients. I jumped the matrix train and it's been a struggle ever since.


We shouldn't have to do this lol ;Wacky

Pineapple sponges are a sign of increased po4 and nutrients. They also feed on diatoms. Your dino issue could be a diatom issue. What's funny is I was just in the dino threads asking for the cheapest and adequate microscope for ID. People are using a $10 scope off amazon. I just ordered one. $10 that could keep the hair on your head sounds like a no brainer before dumping $$$$ on other equipment.
https://www.amazon.com/AMSCOPE-KIDS...top?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp

Matrix reactor has been pulled offline and skimmer stopped for now. Put on my filter sock and turkey basted (word?) the "I'm-pretty-sure-they-are-dinos" dinos. I'll remove the filter sock in the morning and clean it. Get it ready for another round of basting tomorrow if needed.

I'm totally fine dosing nitrates if needed. My last tank suffered from low N and P but it was the corals that took the hit. No cyano or dino anywhere in that tank. It was always too clean. So I'm going for that dirty tank this time. [emoji1]

I'll look into that microscope. My wife would LOVE studying things in my tank with a scope. She is a biology major with chemistry minor.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'll look into that microscope. My wife would LOVE studying things in my tank with a scope. She is a biology major with chemistry minor.

Might go with something a little more expensive then!

 

[rtparty]

In a nutshell, I'd keep feeding the same, skimming the same, but cut out all extra nutrient reduction like biomedia, GFO, etc. I would get prepared to dose NO3 and PO4 until these guys give up blooming.

And +1 on the microscope! Selecting a microscope

I'm gonna have to review the tank history to see if there's anything else more specific to suggest.

No GFO or any other phosphate remover has been used since I used it to help with the chrysophytes and breaking down the silica. I was more after the silica removal. Carbon is seldom used but I did just run some after the Chemiclean dose to help remove anything since my skimmer was going nuts. Should I take out the bag of Matrix? Already took the reactor offline.

Do you have a home remedy for PO4 dosing? I'm using KNO3 for NO3 dosing currently. My Hanna tester will be here this week. I'd like to say I would be surprised if my PO4 was super low since everyone always claims that dry rock leaches phosphates forever. Yet, here I am dealing with multiple problems related to low N and P.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[rtparty]

That was my first assumption as well. However, knowing what we know now, the steps to cure one or the other at this point, are obsolete and may not have mattered. We killed one issue, presented another, killed that one, and now the last one(maybe). All in all, I think the tank is on the right path to recovery with proper ID and limited husbandry.

If what I have now is dinos, it looks quite different and reacts very different than the original brown stuff I had. The original stuff, which I assumed to be a brown cyano, didn't get nearly the amount of bubbles, string upwards or disappear at night. It acted much more like "red slime".

Like you said, we've eliminated the chrysophytes though. That was goal 1. Then cyano showed up and we've handled that. Now maybe the toughest part will be dinos. I'll get a picture tomorrow when they show back up

 

[reeferfoxx]

Do you have a home remedy for PO4 dosing? I'm using KNO3 for NO3 dosing currently.

KNO3 is perfectly fine. I've yet to find a home remedy for PO4 other than feeding fine particulate foods. Most of us have been using Seachem Phosphorus. I will say for my 30g I dose 2ml of phosphorus to achieve 0.05ppm or 5ppb. With a 500ml bottle it's doesn't make a huge dent and most likely will have rid your tank of dinos before the bottle is gone.

The original stuff, which I assumed to be a brown cyano, didn't get nearly the amount of bubbles, string upwards or disappear at night. It acted much more like "red slime".

Yes but dinos go through stages. They can have cyst stage, mucous stage, and then the webbed or drier looking stage and not always in that order. @mcarroll can elaborate more on that.

 

[rtparty]

KNO3 is perfectly fine. I've yet to find a home remedy for PO4 other than feeding fine particulate foods. Most of us have been using Seachem Phosphorus. I will say for my 30g I dose 2ml of phosphorus to achieve 0.05ppm or 5ppb. With a 500ml bottle it's doesn't make a huge dent and most likely will have rid your tank of dinos before the bottle is gone.

Yes but dinos go through stages. They can have cyst stage, mucous stage, and then the webbed or drier looking stage and not always in that order. @mcarroll can elaborate more on that.

Phosphorus, not potassium correct? The link took me to Potassium. I don't want someone else following along and then they buy the wrong stuff trying to dose phosphate.

Looks like I'm heading to get some Phosphate so I'm ready to dose