Alkalinity rising?

[sgrosenb]

Can I ask a silly question - what is the best way to aerate the fresh replacement salt water? I have a pump that is just circulating the water, but it doesn't seem that pH is rising much at all. Currently pH is at 4.1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can I ask a silly question - what is the best way to aerate the fresh replacement salt water? I have a pump that is just circulating the water, but it doesn't seem that pH is rising much at all. Currently pH is at 4.1

An airstone may help. Open to the air for sure, maybe let in some fresh outside air as the room CO2 may be elevated.

 

[sgrosenb]

An airstone may help. Open to the air for sure, maybe let in some fresh outside air as the room CO2 may be elevated.

Any thoughts on how long it takes for pH to rise back up? I've had this water mixed for about 24 hours with an air stone in it and it's only risen from 4.1 pH to 4.3 pH. Which leads to another questions - how long is freshly-mixed saltwater good for (assuming that is being circulated and aerated)?

Thanks, as always, for the help.

 

[sgrosenb]

An airstone may help. Open to the air for sure, maybe let in some fresh outside air as the room CO2 may be elevated.

@Randy Holmes-Farley it looks like my fresh saltwater mix isn't rising in pH at all... Still sitting at 4.4 after 48 hours of mixing. Should I just give it more time, or did I likely over-do the acid buffer?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley it looks like my fresh saltwater mix isn't rising in pH at all... Still sitting at 4.4 after 48 hours of mixing. Should I just give it more time, or did I likely over-do the acid buffer?

you are at the alkalinity endpoint. We’re you aiming for zero alk? Maybe you over shot it.

 

[sgrosenb]

you are at the alkalinity endpoint. We’re you aiming for zero alk? Maybe you over shot it.

Hey all - just an update here. I went ahead and made some changes, but my problem still ins't solved. Looking to @Randy Holmes-Farley and others for any insight on some new developments:

Short history - for the past 18 months my pH has gone from 8.0-8.30 during the day like clockwork. My alkalinity steadily rises roughly 0.1-0.2 dKH per day and is difficult to get under 10.0 dKH.

Last week I changed out 75% of the my rock with live rock from KP Aquatics. The live rock was beautiful with lots of sponges, fans, algae, etc. I have also taken out about 2/3 of my sand. A day after I changed my rock, I did a water change with some really low alk water. It dropped my alk from 9.9 to 9.2, which was great. However, over the past few days, my alk CONTINUES TO RISE!!! Aghhhhh! It want from 9.2 to 9.6 over the past 72 hours. So... no solution on rising alk just yet.

But another interesting thing happened - my pH, which like I said has fluctuated from 8.0-8.3 daily like clockwork for well over a year, is now staying in a much tighter band of 7.95 - 8.10 throughout the day. I find this fascinating, and attribute it 100% to the new rock. Any thoughts on why that is? And any other thoughts on alk rising now that I've pretty much eliminated sand and rock, the two most likely culprits?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you list again everything you add to the tank, including things you don’t think have alk in them?

 

[sgrosenb]

Can you list again everything you add to the tank, including things you don’t think have alk in them?

Oddly enough, I don't add anything to my tank except for a few ml of Brightwell Phoshpat-E daily and a tiny bit of Magnesium buffer maybe once every 3 months or so. When my tank was brand new 18 months ago, alk would drop so I would add soda ash (mixed with RODI water) to get it back up. But after a few months, alk started to rise on its own, so I stopped dosing soda ash; haven't dosed in over a year.

For water changes, I do them every week or so with Tropic Marin PRO REEF which has a roughly 7.5dKH. I have a 5-stage RODI from Spectrapure with the following filters: https://www.marinedepot.com/spectrapure-maxcap-ro-di-replacement-filter-kit. I change these out every 6 months or so. The only thing that is slightly out of the ordinary on this is that the tubing that goes from my RODI to my tank / replacement water is probably about 40-50 feet.

I don't have to dose calcium - it actually stays really high at 460+.

Any thoughts on what it could be? I know you had said that nitrate reduction can cause an increase, but my nitrates have stayed rock steady at 8 for many many months.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The TDS of the Ro/DI is 0-1 ppm?

What foods do you feed?

The 7.5 dKH in the new salt water comes from a measurement using the same kit you are using on the aquarium?

 

[sgrosenb]

The TDS of the Ro/DI is 0-1 ppm?

What foods do you feed?

The 7.5 dKH in the new salt water comes from a measurement using the same kit you are using on the aquarium?

Yep - TDS is always 0. dKH of new saltwater has been tested with four different test kits, just like my tank water (Red Sea, LaMotte, Hanna, and GHL KH Director... I got a bit obsessed with my alk LOL!).

Forgot to mention food - I feed two big pinches of PE Pellets Fish Food, one in the morning and one at lunch. For dinner, I feed 2 cubes of PE Mysis Frozen Shrimp. Links to both of these products here:

PE Pellets Saltwater Fish Food

PE mysis has been used and loved by all types of saltwater aquarists. Now the power of fresh PE mysis has been encapsulated in a pellet form along with other essential nutrients and vitamins resulting in a nutritionally complete diet. Three Sizes Available: 1mm (2oz) - Perfect for pico and nano...

www.marinedepot.com

Frozen Mysis Shrimp

Why does BRS recommend this? PE Mysis has proven to be one of the best foods for saltwater fish. The mysis are sustainably harvested at night, processed and then flash-frozen within hours of being caught. The mysis are packaged whole preserving their nutritional value within the shrimp. Once you...

www.marinedepot.com

 

[sgrosenb]

Yep - TDS is always 0. dKH of new saltwater has been tested with four different test kits, just like my tank water (Red Sea, LaMotte, Hanna, and GHL KH Director... I got a bit obsessed with my alk LOL!).

Forgot to mention food - I feed two big pinches of PE Pellets Fish Food, one in the morning and one at lunch. For dinner, I feed 2 cubes of PE Mysis Frozen Shrimp. Links to both of these products here:

PE Pellets Saltwater Fish Food

PE mysis has been used and loved by all types of saltwater aquarists. Now the power of fresh PE mysis has been encapsulated in a pellet form along with other essential nutrients and vitamins resulting in a nutritionally complete diet. Three Sizes Available: 1mm (2oz) - Perfect for pico and nano...

www.marinedepot.com

Frozen Mysis Shrimp

Why does BRS recommend this? PE Mysis has proven to be one of the best foods for saltwater fish. The mysis are sustainably harvested at night, processed and then flash-frozen within hours of being caught. The mysis are packaged whole preserving their nutritional value within the shrimp. Once you...

www.marinedepot.com

Any other thoughts on this @Randy Holmes-Farley ? My alkalinity went from 9.9 dKH to 9.2 dKH after a water change, but has risen over the past 4 days back p to 10.0 dKH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Assuming it is accurate, it has got to be coming from something in the tank, unless your spouse is sneaking stuff into the tank. lol

 

[sgrosenb]

Hey all - major update here. A few months go and I removed about 75% of sand and about 75% of my dead rock. I didn't replace the sand, but I did replace the rock with roughly 25% Tampa Bay Saltwater live rock and 50% KP Aquatics live rock (the other 25% is my original rock). I'm happy to say that my alkalinity did indeed FINALLY decline, and I am lightly dosing soda ash now to keep it stead around 8.0 dKH. Tough to say if it was the rock or the sand (or the addition of many other types of bacteria, sponges, etc that came along with the live rock?) but it was unquestionably one of those two items. Thanks for all the help along the way!

 

[sgrosenb]

Hey guys - so after some success with my alkalinity declining, it is now back to going back up every so slowly, or just staying flat. This is now the second time in my tank's history that alkalinity declined for a short period of time, and then just stopped declining and actually increased. The first time was when my tank was brand new, and the second was after I changed out the rock and removed a lot of sand. @hobbyreefer @eshtog I'm just wondering if you're still having the same success of continued declining alkalinity, and the need to dose? Also - a question for @Randy Holmes-Farley - the fact that this has now happened twice - does that add any clues to this?

I have a few other threads that are just detailing my tank woes and the fact that I cannot get my SPS to grow at all. It is frustrating - the SPS are staying alive, but there is nearly zero growth, no encrusting... nothing at all except for 2 of my 25 frags. It strikes me that something in the tank is either leeching or irritating these corals and stunting their growth, but I can't figure out what it is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also - a question for @Randy Holmes-Farley - the fact that this has now happened twice - does that add any clues to this?

Not really. Sorry. Very slow dissolution of aragonite from low pH in the sand/rock interior is about all I can think of, and you demand is just not high enough to offset it.

This dissolution certainly happens. Long time reefers often need to add more sand to replace loses, but it is slow.

 

[hobbyreefer]

I’m sorry to hear this. My tank has remained stable since removing the sand. I’m now dosing 100ml of Soda ash and 100ml of Ca daily and my dkh remains very steady.

 

[Cory]

Hey guys - so after some success with my alkalinity declining, it is now back to going back up every so slowly, or just staying flat. This is now the second time in my tank's history that alkalinity declined for a short period of time, and then just stopped declining and actually increased. The first time was when my tank was brand new, and the second was after I changed out the rock and removed a lot of sand. @hobbyreefer @eshtog I'm just wondering if you're still having the same success of continued declining alkalinity, and the need to dose? Also - a question for @Randy Holmes-Farley - the fact that this has now happened twice - does that add any clues to this?

I have a few other threads that are just detailing my tank woes and the fact that I cannot get my SPS to grow at all. It is frustrating - the SPS are staying alive, but there is nearly zero growth, no encrusting... nothing at all except for 2 of my 25 frags. It strikes me that something in the tank is either leeching or irritating these corals and stunting their growth, but I can't figure out what it is.

Id suggest taking out a bucket of tank water and test the alk. Areate with an airstone. Let it sit for a week and see if it rose.

Then id test that same water with a piece of your rock in it test and see if it rises.

Continue to do this to everthing.

Curious does your tank somehow recieve dust from something in the house that may slowly raise alk? In my basement and when my kids run around upstairs i can see dust fall sometimes. Now if that were co concrete dust that would raise alk.

 

[RWalker]

Id suggest taking out a bucket of tank water and test the alk. Areate with an airstone. Let it sit for a week and see if it rose.

Then id test that same water with a piece of your rock in it test and see if it rises.

Continue to do this to everthing.

Curious does your tank somehow recieve dust from something in the house that may slowly raise alk? In my basement and when my kids run around upstairs i can see dust fall sometimes. Now if that were co concrete dust that would raise alk.

My first post in the forum.
firstly, this has been an awesome educational forum for me. Have had salt water for 11 months now after years of freshwater. 100g mixed reef tank.
I found this thread very informative as I have had an alkalinity issue for the last month and wanted to share how I messed up in case others have the same experience.
I have had alkalinity rising and could not work out why, for about six weeks. I am running triton method. Had rising alkalinity. Stopped dosing the alkalinity component. My mag was also getting low.
continued alkalinity rises. Up to 14. Get to 50% water changes. The alkalinity additive had some solids in it... contacted triton, mix it again and you may have to heat it a bit to get all dissolved. Okay. Alkalinity continued to rise.
50% water change.
check online which is alk and calcium and mag. Triton don’t tell you. Other site I buy from has the info.
okay, dose more mag, zero alk.
same problem.
had three gold torches die. Ouch.
ongoing issue for another month.
doesd 80ml mag to raise mag.
triton reading has small reduction in Alk 14.4 to 14.2. and no rise in Mag.
okay dump the mag additive and put fresh in.
LFS to get NSW to do my fifth 50% water change.
different LFS to the one I read the online detail on which is which.
so, they advise, Triton 1 is Mag and 2 is Calcium and 3 is Alk.
oh, most dosing have 1 as Alk... that was the online advice I was going off.
so now I know that triton 3 is Alk and so I had stopped 1, so no Mag and was doing too much Alk... my error but I couldn’t find this on the info on the Triton site.
I know triton say keep all dosing to 1 part 1 and 2 and two part 3, but I’m learning....
Wanted to share, in case it helps others.
I was about to take out sand and rocks...

 

[newportreefey]

I do mean bacteria, or corals, macroalgae, etc.

But having a lot of any of them is not sufficient. Nitrate must be declining (not just low). In a steady state nitrate situation (whether high or low), the alk is depleted by the production of nitrate, and exactly added back by the consumption of nitrate. So no net effect happens to alk unless nitrate is changing.

Is this the same with calcium ?

 

[atlantean]

Can overdosing amino acids be the primary cause for elevated organics in the sand, (causing the ph to drop in the sand and dissolve the aragonite)?