All For Reef

[xeqtologist]

Question,

Tropic Marin states there is a recommended maximum dosage for AFR. What’s the negative for going over this recommendation? I heard AFR is high in copper. Is there any validity to this?

I’ve recently switched my acro dominate tank over to AFR and I’m dosing 45 mils per day and I’m about to increase again. It’s a 50 gallon tank with maybe 40 gallons total in water volume.

It’s holding my Alk lower than I’d like. 7.5-6.9dkh I feel like I’m chasing a number - I don’t like that. I like to keep it above 7 and no higher than 8. Calcium is also low at 380? Mag is about 1200, I believe.

My 60 gallon frag tank including sump is only dosing around 5-10 ml of afr a day, and I have close to two dozen types of acropora frags in it, and 2 large colonies. It depends on a lot of factors but ive never heard of a reef supplement having a metal in it that’s widely considered the most dangerous trace metal for coral, seems silly.

Afr also raises just about everything in your tank. Make sure you’re not overdosing on calcium or mag.

 

[rishma]

Afr also raises just about everything in your tank. Make sure you’re not overdosing on calcium or mag.

AFR provides alkalinity, calcium and magnesium approximately in the proportions consumed by corals and coraline algae. If you are dosing to meet alkalinity demand you don’t have a practical risk of overdosing on calcium and magnesium.

Technically AFR has a little more calcium and a potentially a little less magnesium than is consumed through calcification. Over time, without water changes, calcium levels will rise but are unlikely to cause any issues. Water changes are usually sufficient to manage the calcium drift. Magnesium needs may or may not be entirely met with AFR over time but the drift downward in magnesium levels would happen very slowly, if at all. Similar to calcium, water changes are often sufficient to manage any additional magnesium needs.

 

[CodyF.]

Question,

Tropic Marin states there is a recommended maximum dosage for AFR. What’s the negative for going over this recommendation? I heard AFR is high in copper. Is there any validity to this?

I’ve recently switched my acro dominate tank over to AFR and I’m dosing 45 mils per day and I’m about to increase again. It’s a 50 gallon tank with maybe 40 gallons total in water volume.

It’s holding my Alk lower than I’d like. 7.5-6.9dkh I feel like I’m chasing a number - I don’t like that. I like to keep it above 7 and no higher than 8. Calcium is also low at 380? Mag is about 1200, I believe.

My 60 gallon frag tank including sump is only dosing around 5-10 ml of afr a day, and I have close to two dozen types of acropora frags in it, and 2 large colonies. It depends on a lot of factors but ive never heard of a reef supplement having a metal in it that’s widely considered the most dangerous trace metal for coral, seems silly.

Afr also raises just about everything in your tank. Make sure you’re not overdosing on calcium or mag.

I don’t think it’s possible to overdose CAL & MAG via AFR. It should be in relative ratios.

That said, my CAL is actually low, and MAG is kinda on the lower end as well. But, that due to lower salinity.

Thanks for the help! And input. I appreciate you sharing your experience

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t think it’s possible to overdose CAL & MAG via AFR. It should be in relative ratios.

That is not true. AFR has a bit excess of calcium, as Rishma notes. It has exactly the same excess calcium issue that kalkwasser does, since it has exactly the same alk to calcium ratio.

Both products contain the exact ratio of alk to calcium that is present in pure calcium carbonate (2.8 dKH of alk per 20 ppm calcium).

But when consumed in a reef tank, some of the calcium in the depositing calcium carbonate is replaced by magnesium and strontium. That reduces that calcium demand a little per unit of alk used, and calcium will rise if these products are used to maintain alk. I have used both and both do this.

How low is your calcium?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It depends on a lot of factors but ive never heard of a reef supplement having a metal in it that’s widely considered the most dangerous trace metal for coral, seems silly.

I believe that AFR does contain copper, as it is a needed element. So does Tropic Marin trace supplement K.

The list of ingredients and concentrations is here:

I sent Tropic Marin K+ for ATI ICP RO/DI testing

I took the recipe posted here by Hans, and the ICP results in the first post, and scaled both of them by the Zn result. (ICP does well at Zn, and the concentration of Zn tested was well in the comfort zone of ICP). It gives a very satisfying result. The tested values are almost the exact...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

People seem to be getting upset with the word silly…silly meaning when there are far easier ways to do something, picking the harder way, to me is silly…AFR takes days to hit the tank, in the mean time your alk is still dropping, maybe if you are lucky or good at maths you hit on the correct amount to dose, if not you try again, with another 2-3 days, wait to see if you hit the target this time.

As said the OP seems to be in this cycle, hence why I suggested a different/easier method…seems my 2 mistakes were using the word silly and quoting that TM also suggests this is not the best way to raise alk. they were smarter than me and didn’t use the word silly.

All for reef does not take days to hit the tank. I use it every day. I can test the alk before and less than an hour after dosing and the test will show the effect of the dose.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Made the DIY calibration solution. 4 cups of water & 6 tablespoons-didn’t have anything other wise to measure 2 liters. Added 79 grams of Morton’s table salt.
Calibrated my refractometer and my salinity is 1.023 or around 31/32. Like you guys suspected. My salinity is low.

I have a few errands to run today. I will let the two liters warm up to room temp. and recalibrate and retest. That said. I’m not convinced it’ll be much better. Ironically, I’ve been reading on how calibration solution is inaccurate.

My purified water came out my garage. So it’s about 50°F - thereabouts- so it should stabilize to around 70°s or so. My tank runs at around 78°-78.5°.

Thanks again!! You guys helped out tremendously

Not sure if you - or anyone following along - has another way, but I have used this calculator to good effect to compensate for temperature and to switch between SpG density and ppt salinity: https://www.capitalcityaquatics.com/salinity
I use this while mixing my saltwater and the ppt stays true to target at tank temperature. I do always heat the new water to tank temperature (and aerate it) a couple of days before using it.

 

[HELLCO]

My understanding is that you want to use your calcium number to dose AFR. If I remember correctly, Lou said it was the best way to dose it.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Just to be clear, any such table only works for a floating glass hydrometer reading correction. The actual physical properties do not change like that and it won’t be an appropriate correction for a refractometer or conductivity meter. :)

Thanks, Randy. I am using a glass hydrometer and should have qualified this!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My understanding is that you want to use your calcium number to dose AFR. If I remember correctly, Lou said it was the best way to dose it.

I do not agree, and think calcium is not a good way to go, but I understand that TM recommends that. I think dosing to control alk is much better.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Randy. I am using a glass hydrometer and should have qualified this!

I may have been hasty on writing that before looking. The parts aside from the temp correction may be fine. :)

 

[Pod_01]

My understanding is that you want to use your calcium number to dose AFR. If I remember correctly, Lou said it was the best way to dose it.

That is what TM suggest… As Randy mentioned I also don’t believe that is optional way to dial AFR. I don’t think calcium kits are that accurate.

For example I dose AFR once a day and I measure Alk once a day, when Alk decreases I increase my dose a bit and when Alk raises I reduce my dose a bit.

 

[HELLCO]

My understanding is that you want to use your calcium number to dose AFR. If I remember correctly, Lou said it was the best way to dose it.

Lou’s point was that your uptake of trace elements, etc , follows your coral calcium uptake. There is a chart on the AFR website with ways to adjust your Alk along side of using AFR

 

[rishma]

@HELLCO It’s is no less true to say trace is consumed proportional to alkalinity since alkalinity and calcium and consumed in proportional to each other.

In reality, neither statement is entirely true, but they are saying the same thing.

 

[skiracer8148]

If you wanna maintain stable ALK all day why not split your dose up, doesn't make sense to dump it all in one shot in the morning. This system is 180G total and currently doses 3.5 of AFR every half hour. I monitor with aquawiz and it works perfect 8-8.5 all day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Certainly nothing wrong with splitting it up over the course of the light cycle, and if the dose is very high that may be better. But it does naturally slow release its alk so adding it when demand is ramping up may also give adequate stability. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In many tanks, it is incorrect to suggest that trace element uptake follows alk and calcium uptake since in many tanks, soft corals and macroalgae take up more trace elements than hard calcifying corals.