Americans vs Europeans
- Thread starter The cats wrasse
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Thank you, but I´m controversial even in Sweden.
In the general discussion my standpoint is as always - it is not a question of which culture is best becauses it - as life - vary with persons.
Me - as an example is driven of the desire to have a living reef in the living room. A part of nature that I can look at, and study when I´m home. I´m also driven of the desire to learn and train my brain. On of the reasons why I´m active on forums is my desire to learn more. Both from other people and by the fact that if my opinion will be challenged (and of some reasons I do not understand - it is normally the case
) I have to take a deep diving into the issue and learn more by myself and sometimes correct myself because my knowledge is old and not valid anymore.Your right and we maybe can´t talk about European vs US point of view any longer. It is more like the collector´s, the businessman´s, the scientist´s, technician´s and the environmentalist´s point of view
Sincerely Lasse
Sallstrom
2500 Club Member
I work at a small public aquarium in Sweden and we can buy directly from wholesale. The large wholesales in Europe are pretty good IMO. And if you want something not in stock, they can often get it for you. So for a hobbyist, if your LFS is willing to contact and buy from those wholesales, you can get what you like. That goes for equipment too.
But when looking through the corals, you don’t see the funny names you guys have in the US. I’ve seen some online shops in EU for hobbyists that uses names like that, the wholesales uses the species names(Latin). Perhaps the stores in the US are great at scooping up colourful corals by giving them new names and build up a demand for them? That I haven’t seen as much in Europe.
Shops (and wholesales) ship corals. Look up Whitecorals.com for an example. I got corals coming to work on Monday from Holland.
Europe is not as homogeneous as the US. Everybody doesn’t speak English. Germany is a large country and market for aquariums. So is France. And Italy and Spain. There are no great European forum, but forums in German, Swedish, French, Spanish etc. There are no MACNA yet in Europe(but we’re trying).
So to answer if we don’t have live foods like you have, we do. But it’s not always easy to find it. You need to work a little. And knowing German and a couple more languages would help too(I don’t
).Also, there are different “styles” or “methods “ popular in different country’s in Europe.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
This is the biggest difference and in my opinion the reason why we will not have soon a United States of Europe. Because of the language Europe is a patchwork. And although it is getting better a lot of people in europe do not speak a second language fluently.
Maybe from the viewpoint of the USA we look like 1 country but we are not, we have a european union but a lot of the laws are different per country. (Europe is divided, we cant even agree on where the EU headquarters is, we have to move it from Brussels to France for 1 week in the month or so)
As Sallstrom said you can check whitecorals, and also Fauna Marin. Have bought from both and have not been disappointed. Super good service and they ship across Europe (I'm in Denmark).
If you really want American corals, dreamcorals should have you covered (price included
)Check them out
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greekspec2
Active Member
I believe Europe or at least in Germany has better stock of medium size colonies at the same cost one would pay for a frag here.
Sallstrom
2500 Club Member
To get back to the original question, I believe that there are more newly established tanks and more new aquarists from the US here on R2R. Newbies in Sweden is more likely on a smaller Swedish speaking forum to get help, for example. Therefore the European tanks you see on R2R are from the more experienced aquarists. I think
ReefDemon
Community Member
The US has more commonly available WOW frags but again they come with the WOW price tag. There are some good coral vendors in Europe but you have to look around. WhiteCorals, EuroCorals and FaunaMarin are my favourites and they're all based in Germany. TopCorals in Portugal and CoralSpecialist in Italy are also pretty good. DreamCorals are pricey but have an excellent range of corals especially if you want trachys and other lps.
As far as the UK goes I personally find it even harder to find the high end corals. AAC based in Essex gets some awesome corals in so do ReefKeeper in Windsor.
I prefer the US forums, it feels less clicky and much more friendly.
I have seen UK reefers post on UK forums asking where they can find nice corals and be told by loads of different members that "nice corals can be found if you know where to look" or "to do their own leg work" which is useless and far from friendly. It's on of the things that brought me to R2R and I haven't looked back since.
The US also has more Tanks that are very very blue, sometimes so blue its hard to look at without your eyes going funny. Europe and the UK tend to have tanks that are more toward the 12k spectrum.... I personally like it around 14-15k. Having said that there is a rise in the very blue tanks that I've noticed here.
As far as the UK goes I personally find it even harder to find the high end corals. AAC based in Essex gets some awesome corals in so do ReefKeeper in Windsor.
I prefer the US forums, it feels less clicky and much more friendly.
I have seen UK reefers post on UK forums asking where they can find nice corals and be told by loads of different members that "nice corals can be found if you know where to look" or "to do their own leg work" which is useless and far from friendly. It's on of the things that brought me to R2R and I haven't looked back since.
The US also has more Tanks that are very very blue, sometimes so blue its hard to look at without your eyes going funny. Europe and the UK tend to have tanks that are more toward the 12k spectrum.... I personally like it around 14-15k. Having said that there is a rise in the very blue tanks that I've noticed here.
All you can buy in America re frags. All coral livestock is bought and chopped up by all the vendors. The other ones that sell colonies tend to sell colonies that they don't want or leftovers 2" pieces of a 6" colony they already chopped up. That imo is the main reason.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
Hey, i can't really blame them. If their customers are wanting to spend 100 to 600 bucks for a small frag, i would probably
do the same.
From an environmental point I'm happy that people buy frags instead of complete imported colonies.
do the same.
From an environmental point I'm happy that people buy frags instead of complete imported colonies.
Justin_Reef
Active Member
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American and European (which is a bit misleading since you are comparing a country to a continent) cultures are different and it shows in the way each approach life in general. United States consumerism is unmatched anywhere else in the world and it definitely shows in reefing too but maybe not as much as people are making it seem. I am not American or European but I do know I see way more American tanks of all different styles and maturities. When I see European tanks, it's usually because it is being highlighted on an American platform... so of course it's gorgeous!
Nicholas Dushynsky
Valuable Member
I agree that there is alot of bright, lovely looking corals in the us and also here in the uk, I'm in the southwest of the uk and there aren't that many lfs near me, the one have been going to for the last 14 or more years has alot of nice corals and can get them to order but they are still out of my price range. So I'll stick with my original purchase of a green hammer all those years ago and stare at everyone else's lovely tanks. A person I know imported a bright orange bounce from the US at the cost of £400, I think that is total madness but each to their own.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
It probably also depends on your local shop, my LFS has a lot of mixed reef customers, ad he has privately a mixed reef too. There for I meet a lot of other mixed reef owners
sp1187
bird flu antidote
I don't know about the comparison US to Euro. my tank I'm trying to eliminate frag plugs.
stony corals I either remove the coral off the plug or cut the plug back as far as possible.
zoa and shroom frags get the plug stem removed at the very least.
another thing I don't get is why are wave makers in view. it's a reef tank.
stony corals I either remove the coral off the plug or cut the plug back as far as possible.
zoa and shroom frags get the plug stem removed at the very least.
another thing I don't get is why are wave makers in view. it's a reef tank.
The canister filters is because a lot of Euros start with a freshwater tank and for some reason sumps haven't taken off for freshwater they use canister filters the they want to have a go at marine and wish to keep the same small tank to start with so use the canister filter save money.
Most of the stuff we use is made in China as well then there is those of us that say the USA has more people with big tanks all the sump rooms etc and for some strange reason we have a few who use the likes of apex which still uses the old power bar they (Apex) will not make us the new power bar you have had for years so a lot of us won't use them for that. I think that there is a lot of nice tanks all over the world.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
I also think that the average US house is at least twice as big as a Dutch house. I'm happy that I have space for my main tank In the living room, I have no clue where I could put a quarantine tank in my house.
Aliyanna
Community Member
Wow, great thread. Big too. I am from Germany and here is a movement from buying corals and fishes from wildfang to buy frags, colonies and fishes from breeders.
Yes in Germany we mostly have a look at the environment. We don't only feed corals and fishes, we feed the worms and snails also .
Our tanks aren't made only for corals, we build them in a way that every animal in there is feeling fine.
But as I can see more and more shops only sell corals from breeders. I don't speak of online shops, but megazoo for example. And there are more and more shops selling fishes and stuff from people who give up their tanks or sell fishes from private breeders. By the way I am looking for a home of my Kauderni Baby's
For this reason it is pretty hard to get a wide range of corals in a shop you can walk in and have a look. You can buy online but then freight costs are immense. And you always risk the loss of what you bought, because fishes are stressed out or corals have pressure during transport. We just went from a 1000 liter tank to 2000 Liter (plus sump) and we bought a few new fishes and lost the half of it. They came ill I think because of transport stress and my heart is bleeding for every pet I lose, even the aquatics.
I don't think that this is the way in every European country. As someone mentioned before, we aren't a big country, we gave lots of small country's with different culture.
Yes in Germany we mostly have a look at the environment. We don't only feed corals and fishes, we feed the worms and snails also .
Our tanks aren't made only for corals, we build them in a way that every animal in there is feeling fine.
But as I can see more and more shops only sell corals from breeders. I don't speak of online shops, but megazoo for example. And there are more and more shops selling fishes and stuff from people who give up their tanks or sell fishes from private breeders. By the way I am looking for a home of my Kauderni Baby's
For this reason it is pretty hard to get a wide range of corals in a shop you can walk in and have a look. You can buy online but then freight costs are immense. And you always risk the loss of what you bought, because fishes are stressed out or corals have pressure during transport. We just went from a 1000 liter tank to 2000 Liter (plus sump) and we bought a few new fishes and lost the half of it. They came ill I think because of transport stress and my heart is bleeding for every pet I lose, even the aquatics.
I don't think that this is the way in every European country. As someone mentioned before, we aren't a big country, we gave lots of small country's with different culture.
Peach02
Valuable Member
So true And the variety of fish is much better in USA eg you can get fish from liveaqueria, marine collectors I think is the quarentened one and saltwater fish.com we have LFS websites and livefish.com which is decent but not great for rarer stuff
NeveroddoreveN
Community Member
A stunning tank is more likely to be seen from across the pond in either direction. This kind of bias has a name...
Survivorship bias - Wikipedia
lost66
Active Member
You cannot compare whole EU to a single country. The size is more or less the same but countries in Europe are so different. Not all of them are part of EU, not all have Euro currency. Different languages, different culture. It is like saying Americas and people think of USA and Mexico. Neighbors but completely different mentality.
I think the answer is super simple - people in USA have more money. If you pay the same price for almost everything (more or less) but earn 3 times more here, it is easier to buy crap. And I think the most important note, how many people DO NOT use credit cards here? How many people in USA don't pay off credit card each statement? Statistics are horrible, people in USA have a lot of debt in cars, houses, etc.
I am from Europe but I live in USA. I haven't changed my occupation and in Europe I wasn't even thinking about small reef because I preferred to buy a car...
And I think legislation makes a difference, EU is super strict in terms of trade and types of goods. I bought boots for my wife and she almost lost them at the airport because customs were concerned what kind of animal are these boots made of.
God bless capitalism!
I think the answer is super simple - people in USA have more money. If you pay the same price for almost everything (more or less) but earn 3 times more here, it is easier to buy crap. And I think the most important note, how many people DO NOT use credit cards here? How many people in USA don't pay off credit card each statement? Statistics are horrible, people in USA have a lot of debt in cars, houses, etc.
I am from Europe but I live in USA. I haven't changed my occupation and in Europe I wasn't even thinking about small reef because I preferred to buy a car...
And I think legislation makes a difference, EU is super strict in terms of trade and types of goods. I bought boots for my wife and she almost lost them at the airport because customs were concerned what kind of animal are these boots made of.
God bless capitalism!
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