Ammonia burn in QT

[vetteguy53081]

I would suggest the fact that the fish was healthy (?) in another aquarium for 2 months previous - that SOMETHING in this tank is irritating the gills. Ammonia measurements would help - Agree more history would help. To the OP - How long was your fish in the shipping process ?

Fish not shipped " The reef shop I bought it from said they had it for 2 months. The difference in the way it acts after moving it in clean water is extreme."

 

[Stelioshah]

I would suggest the fact that the fish was healthy (?) in another aquarium for 2 months previous - that SOMETHING in this tank is irritating the gills. Ammonia measurements would help - Agree more history would help. To the OP - How long was your fish in the shipping process ?

The shipping is just a few hours, like 5-6 hours. When measuring ammonia as I noted earlier I could really see no color in the solution. If I shined a light prependicular to the side adjacent to the color chart I would see an orangeness between 0.15-0.25ppm ammonia, in any other case the solution was totally white, even if I signed the light at a 90 degree angle I would see no color. Performing the exact same test on my dt I would see an orange color indicating less that 0.15ppm ammonia. I could really see no color unless I shined a light that way, I was trully confident there was no ammonia prior to adding the fish.

 

[Stelioshah]

Fish not shipped " The reef shop I bought it from said they had it for 2 months. The difference in the way it acts after moving it in clean water is extreme."

The fish actually was shipped, I just called them before getting it to set the qt salinity and they told me that quarantine won't be necessary since they had the fish for 2 months already and it was totally healthy. I am not risking velvet again so I added it to the quarantine as soon as it arrived (I obviously checked the salinity again after the fish arrived).

 

[Stelioshah]

At this point I am going to see how it is tomorrow, I will try to find some methylene blue tomorrow morning, it is 11 pm right now, not much I can do. There is literally no reef shop in my area, I can only order things in general from a nearby city which is a 2-3 hour drive.

 

[brandon429]

Jay had covered you wouldnt use it

that its a risky med to apply

you'd let the fish heal by increasing it's feed quality, water quality constants and sustaining them and the cells will repair. don't pre medicate for an unverified condition. restoring quality surroundings will let him heal the best

 

[vetteguy53081]

The fish actually was shipped, I just called them before getting it to set the qt salinity and they told me that quarantine won't be necessary since they had the fish for 2 months already and it was totally healthy. I am not risking velvet again so I added it to the quarantine as soon as it arrived (I obviously checked the salinity again after the fish arrived).

Thanks for clarification as It was assumed LFS from the wording. One thing with shipping . . . It was mentioned you equalized temperature and salinty which is good. Often, fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish. Sometimes, the fish will die right in the bag.

 

[Stelioshah]

Jay had covered you wouldnt use it

that its a risky med to apply

you'd let the fish heal by increasing it's feed quality, water quality constants and sustaining them and the cells will repair. don't pre medicate for an unverified condition. restoring quality surroundings will let him heal the best

If he is alive by tomorrow I believe he is going to make it, I am going to see how this goes.. So bad.. these are my favorite fish...

 

[Stelioshah]

Thanks for clarification as It was assumed LFS from the wording. One thing with shipping . . . It was mentioned you equalized temperature and salinty which is good. Often, fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish. Sometimes, the fish will die right in the bag.

That's why I match the salinity to avoid all this acclimation process. In my experience it is way less stressful to the fish to slowly increase the salinity over the course of a few days..

 

[MnFish1]

At this point I am going to see how it is tomorrow, I will try to find some methylene blue tomorrow morning, it is 11 pm right now, not much I can do. There is literally no reef shop in my area, I can only order things in general from a nearby city which is a 2-3 hour drive.

methylene blue IMHO will do nothing

 

[Stelioshah]

An idea that just came to mind, I am cultivating phyto. Would it be ok to turn the water green so that phyto absorbs the ammonia? What do you think?

 

[MnFish1]

An idea that just came to mind, I am cultivating phyto. Would it be ok to turn the water green so that phyto absorbs the ammonia? What do you think?

No it will also deplete oxygen

 

[vetteguy53081]

An idea that just came to mind, I am cultivating phyto. Would it be ok to turn the water green so that phyto absorbs the ammonia? What do you think?

Phyto may or may not consume ammonia but especially live phyto is known to remove nitrates and phosphates, consume carbon dioxide and oxygenate the water Stabilizing the ph of the water. Keep light low for fish remainder of the day. I am optimistic per your hopes fish will make it through the night.

 

[brandon429]

I would choose a water change as the sole method, or put your bio media in a filter flowpath

have a second confirming test: seachem ammonia badge

phyto and other living cells can die and rot / add to waste

 

[Stelioshah]

Unfortunately, he can barely move this morning..

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P this is the rare time I'd consider recurring daily ammonia burning it takes these extremes in my opinion. If this was a larger fish I'd really be pushing it as symptomatic ammonia burning. That's one small fish though

This is a problematic post. There is no test evidence that total ammonia was high enough to cause an issue. I skimmed this post and did not see a ppm. Ammonia tests typically over estimate total ammonia, but can underestimate if a dechlorinator is present. I did not see any in use. On the face of it, ammonia was not an issue here.

Everything I read here says to me that the fish was most likely suffocating, maybe from dosing too much Microbacter 7.

 

[brandon429]

fully wrong thread I posted in, edited.

Dan, well said I understand now.

 

[brandon429]

wrong thread, edited post.

 

[MnFish1]

This is a problematic post. There is no test evidence that total ammonia was high enough to cause an issue. I skimmed this post and did not see a ppm. Ammonia tests typically over estimate total ammonia, but can underestimate if a dechlorinator is present. I did not see any in use. On the face of it, ammonia was not an issue here.

Everything I read here says to me that the fish was most likely suffocating, maybe from dosing too much Microbacter 7.

You may very well br correct - key into pH, total ammonia I'm not sure its not something non-related to the issues questioned

 

[MnFish1]

This is a problematic post. There is no test evidence that total ammonia was high enough to cause an issue. I skimmed this post and did not see a ppm. but can underestimate if a dechlorinator is present. I did not see any in use. On the face of it, ammonia was not an issue here.

Everything I read here says to me that the fish was most likely suffocating, maybe from dosing too much Microbacter 7.

You are producing your own evidence - stop skimming posts - and start paying attention, If you haven't analyzed the answer - don't answer - perhaps. Not meant to be insulting - you and Taricha seem to have an agenda - disprove every reef method - go for it - but go for it with evidence - not silliness

 

[Stelioshah]

This is a problematic post. There is no test evidence that total ammonia was high enough to cause an issue. I skimmed this post and did not see a ppm. Ammonia tests typically over estimate total ammonia, but can underestimate if a dechlorinator is present. I did not see any in use. On the face of it, ammonia was not an issue here.

Everything I read here says to me that the fish was most likely suffocating, maybe from dosing too much Microbacter 7.

To anyone doubting anything, here are my tests done per salifert instructions. This is what I was measuring before and during the period I had the fish. I could tell that something was wrong with the fish so I decided to compare the test color between the quarantine and the display tank to see if there was any difference, to my eyes at least I can see none. I do not know if the chart is just bad and the test is not sensitive enough but I can't really see that there is any amount of ammonia in the water (the test of the dt is more vibrant due to more intense lighting), the oxygen was kept high using the air pump: