Ammonia dosing parameters.

[joseph.timbs]

Details; 40g, 10g sump with appropriate size skimmer. Unharvested chaeto section that’s full. Consistent half cube mix frozen musics, brine etc. once a day with occasional flakes. Microbacter 7 every night. Neonitro occasionally.

I’ve had stable nutrients for months to a year of .10-.14 phosphate, 3-5 nitrates. I have had good health/color but thought I would try to boost growth. Tried low dosing NP bacto balance, since I liked my stability and the range it was in. According to TM it should still be balanced but it wasn’t in my case. I dosed around .25 ml a day, early in the light cycle, for a week. Both phosphate and nitrate were dropping slightly day by day. Got to .08 and just detectable nitrate (Fritz). So I stopped the carbon dosing. I at the time was out of neonitro, had pure bakers ammonium bicarbonate on hand. I’ve been suggested to try it out by ppl that are trustworthy, well respected. Mixed to the recommended recipe as I know it. 20g/L. Starting a day or two after carbon dosing. I dosed 4 ml’s a day. Phosphate was .04 and nitrate undetectable. Also wasn’t aware that apparently it lowers PH and I don’t use kalk. Another factor could be I clipped the top of my chaeto because of cyano was a bit too thick. I stopped dosing and have neonitrate coming tomorrow but is it normal for nitrates to be undetectable dosing ammonia? Should ammonia test kits be used to measure? I realize now I don’t know enough about it to utilize it. It definitely makes sense for the coral to process nutrients better but seeing my nitrates undetectable is scary. I’m just feeding the coral a little reef roids twice today and yesterday. Stopped skimming and turned the refugium led off.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, you cannot follow ammonia dosing by measuring ammonia. Lots of things use it up fast, either incorporating it into tissues, or making nitrate.

You can dose it based on coral appearance, or by rising nitrate.

I give recipes and there are many user experiences here:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[joseph.timbs]

No, you cannot follow ammonia dosing by measuring ammonia. Lots of things use it up fast, either incorporating it into tissues, or making nitrate.

You can dose it based on coral appearance, or by rising nitrate.

I give recipes and there are many user experiences here:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

Ok so my undetectable nitrates is a common result. I was expecting to see it in the nitrate testing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you dose enough you will see rising nitrate.

 

[joseph.timbs]

If you dose enough you will see rising nitrate.

I’ll keep that in mind if I try again in the future. I’m going to get the system like it was for a bit. Or whatever the new stability looks like numbers wise. Any idea why my nutrients went down with NP Bacto balance? My uncomfort with the loss of nutrients forced me to stop. After thinking about it today, because I feel my coral seemed to like it (fluffier softies/LPS, brighter growth tips and encrusting acros/SPS) I was jw what your opinion would be of maybe using their Plus NP along with bacto balance to try to find the balance for my specific system?

 

[rishma]

If you dose enough you will see rising nitrate.

I’ll keep that in mind if I try again in the future. I’m going to get the system like it was for a bit. Or whatever the new stability looks like numbers wise. Any idea why my nutrients went down with NP Bacto balance? My uncomfort with the loss of nutrients forced me to stop. After thinking about it today, because I feel my coral seemed to like it (fluffier softies/LPS, brighter growth tips and encrusting acros/SPS) I was jw what your opinion would be of maybe using their Plus NP along with bacto balance to try to find the balance for my specific system?

If nutrients are falling with NP bacto balance, reduce the dose or increase feeding.

I’ve used NP BB a long time, once I got it dialed in things stay fairly stable as long as my inputs are steady (nitrate tends to fall). If I change my inputs, I sometimes need to adjust my dose.

 

[rishma]

One more thing. Nitrate has always tapered down for me when using NP BB. When phosphate is stable over a long period of time I see nitrate decline. It has just a very small amount of nitrogen in it. Hans-Werner advised not to worry about it unless the corals start to look pale. For periods when I did let nitrate get very very low, I saw no issues with coral health.

For the last couple of years I have added supplemental nitrogen to keep nitrate from bottoming out because I couldn’t quite get myself to not worry about it. I am currently letting nitrate trend toward zero and will see where it stabilizes, but I think it will be very low. I am going to let it stay very low and observe to see if I see any issues. I am adding some ammonia, but not enough to keep nitrate from declining. This is an experiment to see if there are any negative effects in my tank from very low nitrate with consistently ammonia additions (along with NP BB).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ll keep that in mind if I try again in the future. I’m going to get the system like it was for a bit. Or whatever the new stability looks like numbers wise. Any idea why my nutrients went down with NP Bacto balance? My uncomfort with the loss of nutrients forced me to stop. After thinking about it today, because I feel my coral seemed to like it (fluffier softies/LPS, brighter growth tips and encrusting acros/SPS) I was jw what your opinion would be of maybe using their Plus NP along with bacto balance to try to find the balance for my specific system?

I don’t know what exactly is in bactobalance so cannot give much useful commentary on why different folks see different results other than the generic statement that since different tanks have different N and P needs, it seems unlikely a single product can be optimized to leave desirable levels in all tanks.

There’s nothing wrong with adding more N and P in any of several good ways.

 

[joseph.timbs]

I don’t know what exactly is in bactobalance so cannot give much useful commentary on why different folks see different results other than the generic statement that since different tanks have different N and P needs, it seems unlikely a single product can be optimized to leave desirable levels in all tanks.

There’s nothing wrong with adding more N and P in any of several good ways.

Got ya. Everybody has different corals, types and amounts along with fish stock. Taking up different amounts of nutrients/parameters. I get it.

 

[joseph.timbs]

One more thing. Nitrate has always tapered down for me when using NP BB. When phosphate is stable over a long period of time I see nitrate decline. It has just a very small amount of nitrogen in it. Hans-Werner advised not to worry about it unless the corals start to look pale. For periods when I did let nitrate get very very low, I saw no issues with coral health.

For the last couple of years I have added supplemental nitrogen to keep nitrate from bottoming out because I couldn’t quite get myself to not worry about it. I am currently letting nitrate trend toward zero and will see where it stabilizes, but I think it will be very low. I am going to let it stay very low and observe to see if I see any issues. I am adding some ammonia, but not enough to keep nitrate from declining. This is an experiment to see if there are any negative effects in my tank from very low nitrate with consistently ammonia additions (along with NP BB).

Ur suggestion is exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks.

 

[exnisstech]

The whole bacto balance, plus NP, elimi NP gig just felt like tail chasing to me when I tried it and I had poor results but different results between 2 tanks, one with high nutrients and one with very low.
I used to dose N and P in the low nutrient but switched to ammonium and finally the tank has stabilized I don't have to dose nutrients

 

[joseph.timbs]

The whole bacto balance, plus NP, elimi NP gig just felt like tail chasing to me when I tried it and I had poor results but different results between 2 tanks, one with high nutrients and one with very low.
I used to dose N and P in the low nutrient but switched to ammonium and finally the tank has stabilized I don't have to dose nutrients

I tried it in my 40 and ph went from a consistent 8.2-8.3 to 7.8. With Co2 scrubber attached to skimmer. I don’t dose kalk, due to inconsistency with my overflow so can’t really use an ATO right. Never fixed it. So I don’t have the PH support from kalk to make up the difference.

3-part and Co2 scrubber has done well enough for me for a while. Don’t want to change it really, just for the sake of dosing ammonia. Think I’m going to try get the boost using bacto balance again with a bit neophos/neonitro supplements to balance it out.

 

[joseph.timbs]

I don’t know what exactly is in bactobalance so cannot give much useful commentary on why different folks see different results other than the generic statement that since different tanks have different N and P needs, it seems unlikely a single product can be optimized to leave desirable levels in all tanks.

There’s nothing wrong with adding more N and P in any of several good ways.

Hey Mr Randy, my Mag is a bit low, around 1215 ppm. In your opinion, do you think using a doser raising it 10 ppm a week is better than just dumping 40-50 ppm or more of mag (Seachem reef advantage magnesium) for 2 or 3 days? Or maybe a dump, then dosing steady? I think my torches would like it higher

 

[exnisstech]

TBH I never paid any attention to pH when I was using it. I do have a Milwaukee monitor on my SPS tank and I'm peaking at 7.9 today unless I turn off the AC and open the house but that isn't happening. Corals do well so I just roll with it. My low pH is caused by elevated indoor co2.

 

[joseph.timbs]

TBH I never paid any attention to pH when I was using it. I do have a Milwaukee monitor on my SPS tank and I'm peaking at 7.9 today unless I turn off the AC and open the house but that isn't happening. Corals do well so I just roll with it. My low pH is caused by elevated indoor co2.

Yeah we have 4 people in our 3 bedroom house with 3 medium sized dogs and 2 cats. I know how it goes. If you don’t have Co2 scrubber media for your skimmer intake, I recommend using some. Cheap and lasts for me. Small skimmer tho for my 40g. When it was fresh months ago my Ph was 8.4-8.5, still >8.2 most the time months later. It turns pink when used up. I keep 1 or 2 inches when replacing, makes it easy to know when to replace.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Mr Randy, my Mag is a bit low, around 1215 ppm. In your opinion, do you think using a doser raising it 10 ppm a week is better than just dumping 40-50 ppm or more of mag (Seachem reef advantage magnesium) for 2 or 3 days? Or maybe a dump, then dosing steady? I think my torches would like it higher

I do not trust that value to be accurate. Try your kit on some new salt water first.

 

[exnisstech]

Yeah we have 4 people in our 3 bedroom house with 3 medium sized dogs and 2 cats. I know how it goes. If you don’t have Co2 scrubber media for your skimmer intake, I recommend using some. Cheap and lasts for me. Small skimmer tho for my 40g. When it was fresh months ago my Ph was 8.4-8.5, still >8.2 most the time months later. It turns pink when used up. I keep 1 or 2 inches when replacing, makes it easy to know when to replace.

TBH I'm content with the growth my acro are showing even at the lower pH.
I have too many tanks running to worry about it. If I only had one to fucus on I would probably address it but with 5 tanks I just let it ride. Also I only run one skimmer on my large tank with big fish.

 

[joseph.timbs]

I do not trust that value to be accurate. Try your kit on some new salt water first.

Alright, I test with aquaforest mag but I’m pretty sure I’ve read you say that before. I remember an ICP 2 years ago for my system and the values were off 200+ppm. I tested around 1270 and it was a little over 1500 on ICP.. Right now it looks like my Torches would like a raise but it’s set to only rise 10pm a week by recipe/calculation. Only been 3 days.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alright, I test with aquaforest mag but I’m pretty sure I’ve read you say that before. I remember an ICP 2 years ago for my system and the values were off 200+ppm. I tested around 1270 and it was a little over 1500 on ICP.. Right now it looks like my Torches would like a raise but it’s set to only rise 10pm a week by recipe/calculation. Only been 3 days.

That is exactly why I do not test magnesium. lol

 

[joseph.timbs]

That is exactly why I do not test magnesium. lol

Yeah that’s the kind of sentiment from you about mag testing I remember reading.